Talk:Satpal Maharaj

Proposals

Some small improvement suggestions which I hope will not require the full mediation process:

1. I think we should mention the Bal Bhagwan Ji name in the lead as well, as per the much-discussed mention of Balyogeshwar in the Prem Rawat lede.
2. Again following the style of the Prem Rawat article, I'd suggest it would be more appropriate to name the article "Satpal Rawat". It's his legal name and the one good recent source we have on him, McKean, calls him thus on page 54. --JN466 22:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't know who wrote this article in a wave to bring all negatives which is against the NPOV and this article follows an approach of NR around Satpal Maharaj. There is mentioning that he lost election in 2004 whereas he did not fight any election in 2004 it was TPS Rawat who fought election in 2004 from Congress Ticket and Lost to BC Khanduri later on in next elections he(TPS Rawat) joined BJP and defeated Satpal Maharaj. Strange seems people don't study well while contributing to wikipedia or they have some other intentions. I feel this comunity pertains to people with full knowldge and research well but I found it otherwise while going this article.<http://www.rediff.com/election/2004/may/10utt.htm>.

I disagree about the article name. He currently uses "Satpal Maharaj", and virtually all of the recent sources use that name too.   Will Beback  talk  00:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

But I have no objection to adding all of the subject's alternate names.   Will Beback  talk  00:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I've changed my mind on the article name, having noted since I wrote the above that the Lok Sabha bio and scores of recent press articles in google news use Satpal Maharaj, while there are none using Satpal Rawat. JN466 09:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Source of information is not reliabe, & written to vendalize the image of the person. Reference/citation mentioned is also not found on any of the Government of india Site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vashishtha.gyan (talk • contribs) 15:01, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

1. Detail refrenced Prem Rawat not found on prem rawat site & also on wikipedia.org Article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vashishtha.gyan (talk • contribs) 13:47, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

1. Details found defamatory & corrected.
2. For Biography of a person correct details to be provided with reference of authorized source such as government sites/Deptt.
3. User using this page to defame a person & against the policy of Wikimedia foundation.
4. Charges of corruption not correct & reference of newspaper is unknow/newspaper is not a nationalized newspaper.
5. 2 Person reference mentioned for theft & sale of land, can not be part of this page,it is not relevant at all.Vashishtha.gyan (talk) 09:23, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

And reverted. There are no "authorized sources" on Wikipedia and we certainly don't limit ourselves to government sites. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:19, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

@Vashishtha.gyan: Having looked carefully through the article, I have removed some of what you wanted removed, using edit summaries to describe why. It's usually best to make edits in small chunks with edit summaries rather than one big deletion. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:39, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Source on Satpal Rawat and his wife, Amrita Rawat

There is a Daily Pioneer article with a few interesting tidbits on Satpal and his wife, who is also active in politics, here. --JN466 22:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Some more sources:

• Indian government site with some bio info:
  http://india.gov.in/govt/loksabhampbiodata.php?mpcode=3717

• The Tribune, India (May 27, 2009)
  Harish Rawat to get berth in union ministry
  http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090528/dun.htm#3
  Rawat’s elevation may ignite intra-party feud
  http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090528/dun.htm#4

• Indian Express (Jan 28, 2008)
  Guru-shishya battle in offing in Pauri Garhwal
  http://www.indianexpress.com/news/gurushishya-battle-in-offing-in-pauri-garhw/266055/= --JN466 23:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

scandal around the family feud

I am not sure if this is a fair term to use in English. His younger brother's minor marriage went against Hindu society conventions, and may indeed have been considered scandalous in India (though we would need a source to tell us this.) But this is an English encyclopedia, reflecting Western values, and "scandal" doesn't seem appropriate. Controversy, perhaps? Rumiton (talk) 12:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

This is an English-language encyclopedia that is accessible to people from all over the world. There are more English speakers in India than in the UK, Canada, and Australis, combined. Articles should be use the neutral point of view, not the English or Indian POVs. The words we use should be based, as much as possible, on our sources. Do sources describe it as a scandal? Remember, it encompasses more than just a marriage. If I recall correctly, thre were photographs or rumors of Prem kissing women and getting drunk in public. Following the marriage there was a power struggle in India that included cross-filed lawsuits, one for defamation. I don't think "controversy" quite describes all of that. Let's review the sources and see what they say before making any changes.   Will Beback  talk  20:43, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

On checking McKean, our best source for this article, I see that she refers to the "scandalous family feud". Our material is a close paraphrase of that.   Will Beback  talk  21:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I think Cagan says that the photos were maliciously distributed and actually showed his brother with his new bride. Citing the number of Indian English speakers is a little obfuscatory, I think. If we are indeed writing for a wide cross section of religious and cultural values, we need to be careful about ALL our value judgements. The section on the divine reverence in which the "holy family" is held is written from a resolutely Christian-western perspective which could be offensive to some Hindu-Indians. Rumiton (talk) 12:18, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

The subject is Indian. Of course we're using Indian sources. However I doubt that McKean is Indian. Nonetheless, McKean is a scholarly source and the best single one we have. "Scandalous" is exactly what she writes, so I think this is a fair and correct summary of the source.   Will Beback  talk  12:31, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Do you not see my point? We are using prim and proper Indian sensibilities to justify the word "scandalous" regarding the assension, then ridiculing the resultant deification (using these terms loosely) from a western viewpoint. The result is a rather sour article from anyone's point of view. Rumiton (talk) 12:41, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't see your point. According to whom is "scandalous" an Indian sensibility? The material on deification comes from the same source as the "scandalous" assertion, so I don't see how we could say that one is an Indian sensibility while the other is Western.   Will Beback  talk  20:25, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the idea of a 16 year-old "kissing women in public" is at all scandalous to the western mind, and "getting drunk in public" is hard to prove without a breathalyser. That descriptor is clearly India. The word just seems unfairly harsh for an international encyclopedia. Rumiton (talk) 11:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Guru Maharaj Ji was not an average 16 year-old. As an imperfect comparison, it would not be scandalous to find out that an average 80-year old man has had a wife and children, but it would be if that person is the Roman Catholic Pope. It's not really up for us to judge. Clearly, being photographed kissing someone in public is still considered scandalous in India. That's the adjective being used by a scholar. If you want to take the Jossi route then you can insist upon attributing the view to the source. Among other things, it makes the text harder to read, so it's a last resort that seems unnecessary here.   Will Beback  talk  12:13, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

MoS writ large

First mention While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known. Many cultures have a tradition of not using the full name of a person in everyday reference, but the article should start with the complete version. For example:

• (from Fidel Castro): Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz (born August 13, 1926) ...
• (from François Mitterrand): François Maurice Adrien Marie Mitterrand (October 26, 1916 – January 8, 1996) ...
• (from Brian Jones): Lewis Brian Hopkin Jones (28 February 1942 – 3 July 1969) ...

Therefore the first sentence should be - Satpal Singh Rawat (born 21 September 1951) also known as Satpal Maharaj, formerly known as Bal Bhagwan Ji, is a member of the lower house of the Parliament of India (15th Lok Sabha) for the Indian National Congress party.

Big change

There was a big change to this article on the 2013-08-16. Please, someone, check it.

Aisteco (talk) 00:24, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

So i have reedited the desaster to some former point in the history. This is not a place where you can replace content in a dictator like manner and declare the work that has been done as irrelevant just to promote the cult leader. So if you want to change something you have to talk about it, even when you are sure that you own the utter truth. 87.123.79.204 (talk) 21:25, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The big change was progressive and systematically done by his followers to hide facts. the results of all the elections he fought was deleted. facts that Satpal & his brothers are not in talking terms and their legal battle and court verdicts were deleted. the person "Gyan.vashishtha" probably is the same guy who handles IT for Satpal as his Prem Nagar Ashram. Since he is projected as a GODMAN , Gyan.vashishtha was using wiki as a medium to spread information about Satpal and deleting lot of facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.177.204.193 (talk) 04:31, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Another deletion done by 182.68.229.3 on 24 March. Have undone the big change and reverted to earlier version. 182.68.229.3 , please talk here before deleting content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.226.18.36 (talk) 14:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Another attempt for big deletion by 182.64.203.47. 182.64.203.47 did 9 unexplained deletions including section blanking. Looks like a follower of Satpal deleting references about his brother Prem Rawat. 182.64.203.47,this is not a place where you can replace content in a dictator like manner and declare the work that has been done as irrelevant just to promote the cult leader — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.177.29.224 (talk) 03:03, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Probation

What is it worth? The Probation? Since a couple of days an editor from India is occupying the article and rewriting the history of Satpal Rawat and litteraly nothing happens. This is definitely a weakness of Wikipedia. No Admin, though contacted feels responsible to take any action. 87.123.113.231 (talk) 12:58, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Come on Bito4u

let's discuss your issues on the talkpage, get some help from admins and other editors and work in a civil way 87.123.90.194 (talk) 06:08, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

To anyone editing this article: This article is subject to the same limitations and warnings (see top of this talk page) as other Prem Rawat related articles are subject to reaching consensus. Edit warring must stop. All edits should be discussed on talk pages to reach consensus prior to making any changes to the main article. Sylviecyn (talk) 17:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 September 2013

name = Satpal Maharaj | caption = | birth_date = (1951-09-21) 21 September 1951 | birth_place =Haridwar, Uttar Pradesh (now in Uttarakhand) | residence = Dehradun, 2/12 East Punjabi Bagh, Delhi | death_date = | death_place = | constituency = Garhwal | office = | term = | predecessor = | successor = | party =INC | religion = | spouse = Amrita Rawat | children = Shradhey Ji ,Suyesh Ji | website = | brothers = Prem Rawat , Bhole Ji , Raja Ji | mother = Rajeshwari Devi | step-mom = Sinduri Devi | footnotes = | date = | year = | source = }} Ajames0603 (talk) 21:12, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

References given are not correct

Hi, I would like to raise a strong objections on the authenticity of the references given in the article.

It's a very serious concern for the page of a very popular person. all the references which have been give from "___.org" websites should be immediately removed from the article.

I request the page administrator to remove all "____.org" references and the lines which support that.

waiting for the reply from wikipedia/wikimedia administrators. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Praveen.hans (talk • contribs) 15:28, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I viewed the content of the page & found details provided on the page is not correct & written to vendalize image of this person.

The source of information provided is also not reliable & not appear on the website.

On any of the government of india site these details are not available

need citation from reliable source — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vashishtha.gyan (talk • contribs) 14:59, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikepedia to do something on this issue.

people trust a lot on the information provided by wikepedia.org.

As a member/Volunteer of Wikipedia.org we should provide correct & authenticated details, sourcing from any website is not the right way of providing information. Details should have reference of Government sites.

n addition to above if something wrong done by a person & who was associated by X, Will X will be held responsible for that what is the purpose of mentioning these in X person article, is not it defamatory content? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vashishtha.gyan (talk • contribs) 08:31, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Vounteer of wikipedia does not delete content like you do. Mt Gyan Vashishtha , you are the IT manager of Satpal at Punjabi bagh Ashram ? How can your content be authentic as you will portray only a part of your cult's leader and hide his history. Details sourced from newspapers were deleted by you. A responsible member/Volunteer of Wikipedia.org will never do this. Hope good sense prevails are you do do replace content like a dictator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.177.42.38 (talk) 23:23, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

I am sharing correct & true information with Wikipedia so that People know the Truth. I believe the you are using Wikipedia for your ulterior motive & malafied intensions. We are trying our effort to provide correct reference for this page.

Let Me correct you that I am not IT manger with Satpal Maharaj organization. Me Working at BCH Electric Limited, New Delhi as Sr. Manager commercial & communication.

I was the one who did the last set of deletions and I assure you I have no idea nor do I care who Maharaj is. This is not an acceptable source for a WP:BLP. The Corruption section is a WP:COATRACK. The employee paragraph is utterly trivial. Finally, the article is about Satpal, not his wife. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 23:32, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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These are advertisements by Himanshu Rawat a follower of the cult. Should be avoided on public information pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.214.75.62 (talk) 05:54, 8 April 2016 (UTC)