Talk:Saoirse Ronan/Archive 1

Archive 1

copyvio

I deleted the link to Image:Saoirse in premiere of Atonement.jpg bewcause that image belongs to Getty Images according to the image metadata. Nankai (talk) 09:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

More information

There should be more information about her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.248.237.143 (talk) 20:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

American-born Irish actress

She is an American born actress, but this doesn't mean she holds American citizenship and therefore it is unnecessary to say she is "an American-born Irish actress" it is misleading because she is Irish and in no way an American having lived the majority of her life in Ireland born to two Irish parents. It is of course expanded upon in her personal and in the side info box that she was born in New York. There is no need to state this three times on the same page unless she actually refers to herself as American-born Irish we are adding superfluous details. Robnubis (talk) 15:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

QUOTE:"She is an American born actress, but this doesn't mean she holds American citizenship"

Yes, it does mean exactly that; she holds American citizenship. American citizenship was bestowed upon her by virtue of being born within the United States, and no actions of her parents can negate or nullify this. She herself can renounce her American citizenship when she reaches the legal age to do so, until when and if that may happen she is an American citizen by birth under the legal concept of Jus Soli and American citizenship law are quite clear on this.(75.69.241.91 (talk) 17:31, 24 January 2010 (UTC))

Quote:" it is misleading because she is Irish and in no way an American having lived the majority of her life in Ireland born to two Irish parents"

The only one being misleading is you. You do not know what you are talking about. How is someone who has American citizenship "no way American"??? You should really educate yourself before you engage in a debate. In this case you are totally ignorant of the specifics of American citizenship laws. Your comments are based on errors, and assumptions on your part and should really not be part of this debate.(75.69.241.91 (talk) 17:36, 24 January 2010 (UTC))

Actually in this argument you are ignorant too, of Irish law. She is automatically an Irish citizen since she has Irish parents. Irish Nationality Law. So what this comes down to is what she identifies as and she does not identify herself as American. Her nationality is Irish, this does not mean her rights to citizenship (which she has in both the US and Ireland) but being of Irish descent. But guess what? You know nothing about how wikipedia works when deciding a persons nationality please read this: [1] and I QUOTE:

"In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable."

Since she has a right to both Irish and US citizenship, this applies. She became notable while living in Ireland where she is a citizen (not to mention Irish by descent). Anyway this matter was resolved and your side of the argument already lost. Why do you even engage in these arguments when you have little to no understanding of how wikipedia works? Please educate yourself. --Robnubis (talk) 18:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I came her from the WP:RFC/BIO. I'd just like to comment that I feel having "American-born Irish actress" or similar in the intro makes sense for a biographical article (similar to Mel Gibson or Nicole Kidman) for the same reason as it's in the Infobox (and of course it's redundant—it's a summary). It's not a question of referring to her as an Irish-American actress (since as you point out, she identifies Irish and has lived mostly in Ireland), but of having a quick overview of the entire article. VernoWhitney (talk) 22:18, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Quote:"Actually in this argument you are ignorant too, of Irish law. She is automatically an Irish citizen since she has Irish parents. Irish Nationality Law"

Really? Well, that is totally irrelevant! When did I state that she was not an Irish citizen by virtue of birth? Her Irish citizenship does not cancel, negate or supersede her American citizenship; she is a legal citizen of both nations equally. I wasn't denying that she was an Irish citizen, I was simply stating that she is a American citizen by birth, and no action he parents take can negate that. The only action that can be taken that would eliminate her American citizenship would be her revoking her citizenship herself, and she will not able to take that action until she is 18, so it is factually accurate to call her an 'American citizen', but I also stated that to call her 'American' would be a very convoluted stretch, given that she was, in essence, an American citizen by accident. She was born while her parents were in America, so that her father can work, and she has lived most of her life in Ireland. The bottom line is that if she was in trouble in a foreign nation, and required assistance, she has every right to evoke her American citizenship.

Another point is that she is still, by definition, a child, so at what age does Wikipedia factor in her "self identification"? She's 15, what if she was 10? or 12? or 6? When do we start considering someones "self identification"? I am not saying that we should not consider her self identification, my question is what is the cut off? There is some gray area here.

I am actually in agreement that she should be categorized as Irish, as she can not make a choice about retaining her American citizenship at this point, so common sense would seem to say that she should remain categorized as solely Irish.

However, when she reaches the age of 18 and beyond and takes no action whatsoever to revoke her American citizenship, and in fact uses her citizenship status to easily enter the country, and make film or stage appearances without having to submit to the adversities Irish citizens must deal with in 1) Securing a temporary Visa in order to work in the US, 2) Bypassing Actor's Equity rules regarding the casting of non American talent in major stage presentations, then it must logically follow that she is utilizing the convenience of American citizenship through choice, and at that point her designation should be reasonably changed to Irish American. If she decides to use her American citizenship when it suits her, she can't be seriously defined as solely identifying herself as 'Irish', regardless of her words. At this point, I would say she should remain defined as Irish.

As for some of you chortling about the guy losing his argument, we should all know by know that these things can change and be reverted by Wikipedia very swiftly.(75.69.241.91 (talk) 01:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC))

As per the comments in this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/brooklyn/saoirse-ronan-interview-brooklyn-film/ I think we should add the fact that she is an American-Irish actress. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 19:25, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Can I just highlight the inconsistency with Wiki. The page on Johanna Konta is refusing to define her as 'Australian born' or 'Australian-British' on the basis that it is 'not pertinent to her notability' as defined by the wiki rules on such matters. Therefore defining Saoirse Ronan as Irish-American on the basis she was born there but moved when she was 3 is a little tenuous to say the least and not 'pertinent'. Look at this example about Daniel Day Lewis:

Sir Daniel Michael Blake Day-Lewis (born 29 April 1957) is an English actor.[2] He holds both British and Irish citizenship.

Now, who decided he was English or Welsh or Scottish rather than British?

Another example:

Lennox Claudius Lewis, CM, CBE (born 2 September 1965) is a retired boxer and the last undisputed world heavyweight champion. He holds dual British and Canadian citizenship

Another:

Cary Grant (born Archibald Alexander Leach; January 18, 1904 – November 29, 1986) was an English actor who became an American citizen in 1942

Really? Still an 'English' actor 44 years later?

Even Americans regards her as Irish:

http://irishamerica.com/2016/01/saoirse-ronan-and-stephen-colbert-talk-irish-accents/ http://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/movies/ireland-is-a-nation-of-leavers-an-interview-with-saoirse-ronan/

I am sure the list goes on. So where is the consistency? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.217.166.101 (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

"Became British"

The article is talking about a technical classification, used for the purposes of that award, it's not actually saying she "became British", as the IP is trying to insert. If we determine that this is notable enough for the article, a much better explanation needs to be given. Also, I accidentally clicked "rollback" instead of "undo" when I was looking at the history. If anyone has a problem with that, I'll self-revert, and then use undo and provide an edit summary. UnitAnode 05:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

She is American

According to United States law, a person born in the U.S. is automatically a U.S. citizen. She was raised in Ireland, yes, but she is American by birth. In order to be considered Irish, she would have had to been born in Ireland. If anyone wants to continue to dispute this then please contact an admin for mediation. RyanGFilm (talk) 03:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

• Sorry, that's not how it works. She self-identifies as Irish, and she was raised in Ireland, she's Irish. You don't just get to make decrees about "contacting an admin for mediation", whatever that means. UnitAnode 04:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
  • When there is constant editing of a single piece of information in an article, POLICY STATES that an admin is to be contacted for mediation.RyanGFilm (talk) 00:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
    • Policy "states" no such thing. Administrators have no more authority to mediate disputes than non-admins. UnitAnode 02:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Someone hasn't been doing their homework. Admins have much more power than regular editors do. If an agreed consensus cannot be reached concerning the issue at hand then the Mediation Cabal will be asked to intervene. Please keep in mind that three reverts in less than 24 hours is considered an edit war and the party that is considered to be in the wrong is either issued a warning, or blocked by an administrator. This is the policy I was speaking of. RyanGFilm (talk) 09:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

You really have no clue at all how things work here, if you truly believe that "admins have much more power than regular editors do." UnitAnode 18:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

How about you two compromise and just call her Irish-American??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.178.82 (talk) 18:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, she is an American citizen, that is not in serious dispute, however given that she is a minor and her citizenship was due entirely to her parents being in America at the time of her birth, and that she can not renounce her citizenship until she is eighteen, I don't think she should be categorized as American. Again, when she reaches eighteen and nineteen, and has taken no tangible action to renounce her American citizenship, at that point she is making a choice and should be re-classified as an American citizen. At that point she would be able to make a choice about this, and there would not be much of an argument if she calls herself 'Irish' but chooses to remain a citizen. Right now it's more of a tachnicality given that neither the girl, nor her parents, can take any action to renounce her American citizenship. RyanG may be going overboard a little bit, but he is essentially correct about her citizenship status, I just do not feel that the classification should be forced on her until she is legally able to renounce or confirm her citizenship. At this point she has no choice.(24.62.126.170 (talk) 17:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC))

Without quoting Wikipedia policies at length (which might actually be a help to RyanGFilm) she is Irish with American citizenship. The intro is currently correct as referring to her as Irish. Zarcadia (talk) 00:22, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

"How about you two compromise and just call her Irish-American???" - Absolutely no way is she Irish-American, she was born in the US and moved to Ireland so any compromise would be American-Irish. Zarcadia (talk) 00:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

This is as logical as calling Emma Watson French because she was born in France. Saoirse was born in America to IRISH parents and then moved back to Ireland. Shes Irish not American. The same as how Emma Watson was born in France to English parents and then moved back to England. THE END. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.222.9 (talk) 06:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

RfC: Determining Actress as Being Irish or American

Closing this. There's nothing more to discuss, as RyanGFilm's proposed change has been conclusively shown to be without merit.UnitAnode 02:53, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
There have been many edits on this page concerning the actress's nationality. She was born in the U.S. which makes her a born U.S. Citizen, however she was raised in Ireland. This has caused dispute as to whether she's American, or Irish. RyanGFilm (talk) 00:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC) Does she hold a dual-citizenship? If not, then she should be listed as an American in the opening paragraph. I get this from our MOS for biographies which encourages the country of one's citizenship to be used. ThemFromSpace 00:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC) I could not find any information concerning a dual citizenship, however I think it's safe to say that she maintains dual citizenship since she grew up in Ireland and has lived there since she was 3. RyanGFilm (talk) 01:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC) No. Just no. Both her parents are Irish, she self-identifies as Irish, and she's lived in Ireland since she was three years old. She's Irish. UnitAnode 02:55, 9 January 2010 (UTC) You've already voiced your opinion, Unitanode, thank you. RyanGFilm (talk) 09:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC) As have you, yours. I'll thank you to keep your snarkiness to yourself. Commenting above doesn't preclude me from commenting on this RFC. UnitAnode 18:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC) Well when an elitist who clearly doesn't want to discuss an issue posts a close-ended statement where there is meant to be open-minded discussion, all I can say is what I stated above. I wasn't being snarky. I was simply rebounding your close-mindedness. If you want to actually discuss this then by all means post your opinion as opinion and not fact. Then we can talk. Otherwise, your comments have no place in this discussion. RyanGFilm (talk) 01:47, 10 January 2010 (UTC) That's what We've been trying to tell you, RyanGFilm. It's not about "opinions" here, it'a about facts. And your facts are blatantly, obviously, and obtusely wrong. Sometimes discussions are matters of opinion. This isn't one of them. You are simply wrong here. And I won't play coy, and pretend otherwise, just to make you feel better about it. UnitAnode 14:10, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Why don't we say "American born Irish actress" or something. Then the reader will understand the complexities and can decide for themselves. It looks like her acting happened mostly, or at least originally, in Ireland or the UK. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC) Verifiability trumps all; on that note, Ronan has indeed stated that she is Irish in several published interviews (such as this article here), whereas never having stated or claimed that she has U.S. nationality or is an American. Simply because she was born in the United States would not automatically make her an American (her parents might not have pursued citizenship or an American passport for her): as that would be an unsubstantiated claim based on one's original personal research, which has no place on Wikipedia and certainly not on a living person's biography. ···巌流? · talk to ganryuu 19:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC) You are totally incorrect. She would automatically be an American citizen upon birth, and no actions of her parents would be sufficient to negate this. At the age of 18, she would be able to renounce her citizenship.(75.69.241.91 (talk) 06:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)) This has been my point all along: verifiability. And it seemed a bit nonsensical to insist on putting "American" as a descriptor of a clearly Irish girl. UnitAnode 19:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC) She is Irish. She states she is 100% Irish in an interview on American TV in this YouTube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM3YcOmFRyE . Around the 4min 50seconds time frame.Hammertime2009 (talk) 23:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC) YouTube is not a verifiable source according to Wikipedia policy. On another note - on Nicole Kidman's wiki article it lists her as "an American-born Australian Actress". Wouldn't it be much easier to list Saoirse likewise? That would be a great compromise as well as being an accurate statement. Then no one can claim foul. RyanGFilm (talk) 01:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC) I only linked to that clip as it was Saoirse herself stating that she's 100% Irish, but point taken on YouTube.Hammertime2009 (talk) 02:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Also in this article she refers to herself as Irish, not American http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/movieawards/oscars/2008-02-11-saoirse-ronan_N.htm . Hammertime2009 (talk) 03:02, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Yeah, but celebs aren't verifiable either, according to Wiki policy. They can be quoted, but when it comes down to facts, they cannot be referenced. Ethnically she is 100% Irish. We're talking about her nationality. RyanGFilm (talk) 05:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Her nationality is Irish. She had Irish citizenship at birth due to being born to Irish parents. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 12:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC) I see this as being a dispute over ethnicity and nationality. I don't think anyone denies that she is of Irish ethnicity, but it is her nationality that is in question. For example, her parents being Irish has nothing to do with her nationality because it is a purely ethnic claim. Ethnicity /= nationality. The MOS that I linked above states that nationality should be described in an article, and ethnicity only if it is relevant to the article's subject (I don't know much about this person, but from the discussion here I'm guessing it is). This would lead a solution such as Peregrine Fisher described above ideal, something such as "American born actress of Irish ethnicity". ThemFromSpace 00:23, 10 January 2010 (UTC) This has been my point, but others just don't get it. When you're born here in the U.S. you automatically get citizenship. It's not something you have to pursue. RyanGFilm (talk) 01:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC) A person is an Irish citizen if, at the time of his or her birth, at least one of his or her parents was an Irish citizen. It's automatic. This coupled with the fact that she identifies with being soley Irish, lives in Ireland, grew up in Ireland, goes to school in Ireland etc, I therefore think it's misleading to try and claim her as American on a technicality of birth.Hammertime2009 (talk) 02:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC) What about "American born Irish actress" - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:36, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Her place of birth is already stated in the article. She is an Irish actress and adding "American born" is superfluous.Hammertime2009 (talk) 02:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Just trying to find a compromise that everyone can live with, but whatever. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:05, 10 January 2010 (UTC) @Hammertime2009 - It may be superfluous, but looking back in the edit history, it's been an issue with editors so I think it would be best to correct this issue as to avoid any possible future editing wars. RyanGFilm (talk) 05:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC) If editors are confused, readers are probably as well. We should just be explicit and explain it all in the first or second sentence. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC) The only people who are "confused" are those (few) who are trying to push "American" into the lead. There's no controversy here. Simply being born in a country doesn't make you "American." She self-identifies as Irish, reliable sources call her Irish, there's no controversy, except in RyanGFilm's mind. UnitAnode 05:44, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Because you think it's simple does not make it so. She is an American citizen, unless somehow she isn't. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:48, 10 January 2010 (UTC) That is incorrect, Unitanode. I am not the only editor who has changed it. As I said before, being that you're so elitist, you probably shouldn't post in this discussion. A piece of information in the article has caused several edits and reverts and I am trying to find a compromise to end this issue whereas you refuse to discuss it and only want what you want to be in the article. Once again, if you are born in America, you are automatically granted citizenship. You might also want to check out this little bit of Wikipedia policy. As to your references to her comments about her ethnicity, Wikipedia policy states that the subject of a Wikipedia Biographical article is not a reliable source, therefore non-referential. RyanGFilm (talk) 05:56, 10 January 2010 (UTC) You really need to stop quoting policy until you actually know what the hell it actually says. If a living person self-identifies as a given race, ethnicity, or whatever, that's what they are. Period. Especially when the reliable sources also say she is that which she self-identifies as. This is the same damn argument that the POV-pushers tried to use to get the words "black" and "African-American" out of the Obama articles. It's a losing argument, and accusing me of article ownership of this article (a completely inane, and wholly unsupportable accusation) is a non-starter as well. I've made very few edits to this article, and simply reverting your attempts to force the word "American" in as a descriptor of an Irish actress doesn't qualify as "ownership", except in the most deluded of worlds. UnitAnode 06:17, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Educating RyanGFilm on policy You seem fond of quoting "policy" that isn't actually policy. The closest I can come for your odd reference above, follows. It's the only thing I could find that might remotely resemble what you claim about "policy" above. I have highlighted portions that perhaps you should note: Using the subject as a self-published source Further information: WP:SELFPUB Living persons may write or publish material about themselves, such as through press releases or personal websites. Such material may be used as a source only if: it is not unduly self-serving; it does not involve claims about third parties or unrelated events; there is no reasonable doubt that the subject actually authored it; the article is not based primarily on such sources. These provisions do not apply to autobiographies published by reliable third-party publishing houses; these are treated as reliable sources, because they are not self-published. Further note Since there's no doubt how she identifies her own nationality, and it's neither self-serving, nor is the article primarily based on such sources, please desist from the absurd claim that you have "policy" on your side. You don't. UnitAnode 06:27, 10 January 2010 (UTC) You need to calm down. You are taking this personally and this is not personal. I am trying to rectify a confusing bit of information on an article and you are taking offense to it. Don't. Like it says in the policy I sent to you it states "If you do not want your ideas (for article organization, categorization, style, standards, etc.) challenged or developed by others, then do not submit them." That is why I sent it to you, so your claim that I made an "inane, and wholly unsupportable accusation" is an inane and wholly unsupportable accusation. I also sent it to you because you are the one saying "It's my way, PERIOD," rather than actually discussing something. Again - you are right about her ethnicity. I am not arguing that. I am arguing her nationality and have offered compromises that other editors seem to agree with. Except yourself. Wikipedia is not a place to have an ego. Here you will find the policy that states that "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." So it does need to reference her American citizenship (being that that is her nationality) in the opening paragraph and being that she has lived most her life in Ireland and became famous while maintaining citizenship there, her Irish ethnicity should be noted as well. So not only do other editors agree that her American citizenship be recognized in the opening paragraph, but so does policy. Looks like I DO have policy on my side. In terms of the policy I stated that said that the subjects are not reliable sources, an editor had directed me to that policy a while ago and it must have changed. My apologies for not double checking that. RyanGFilm (talk) 10:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC) RyanGFilm, you're making yourself look foolish. I've not "taken this personally" at all. Pointing out your blatant errors and silliness doesn't mean I'm taking it personally. I've pointed out to you that your assertions about what "policy" states are completely wrong. I've demonstrated, without question, that you have no idea what you're talking about, when you say we can't use the girl herself as a source for her nationality, and yet, you continue to make those assertions. She is not "American", any more than a child born to American parents, who happen to be living in, say, Ireland, for a few years is "Irish." You don't know what you're talking about, and that's all there is to it. As to whether anything should be mentioned about her Irish nationality is a wholly separate argument. If you want to discuss that, we can. But right now, you're attempting to prove she's American, when she's obviously not, so how about sticking to that absurd premise for now? UnitAnode 14:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC) She is an Irish national as it was aquired at birth due to being born to Irish parents. She has never asserted American citizenship or claimed it in any known article or medium. The fact that she was born in New York is mentioned in the article for all to see. Nobody is hiding that fact. According to the Policy quoted above "previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." She became famous as an Irish actress, not an American one. She was a 3year old when she left New York. Hardly notable and to presume that she is an American citizen because she was born there would be original research, IMO, especially as she and other sources have stated she is Irish. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 12:10, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Her country of birth is relevant to her notability because she became famous making American movies. RyanGFilm (talk) 01:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC) If she was born to both Irish parents, lives in Ireland, goes to school in Ireland, states clearly and publicly in interviews that she is Irish, but just HAPPENS to have been born in America, does not mean she is American. I'm irish, have both Irish parents, go to school in Ireland and state that I am Irish, but I just HAPPEN to be born in London <countless Irish people have been born abroad, patricularly since the 70's>, I am still 100% Irish and have an Irish citizenship but not an English one, or can I claim to be English <nor do I want to>. This seems to be a case of one person, RyanGFilm, being too stubborn and closed minded to admit that not every talented person alive is American. And I dont really know why I bothered getting into this, but if all we have to do all day is sit at our computers getting into petty arguements with people we dont know, then were all rather sad. - KugelsackIstSoInZisSeazon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.197.90 (talk) 19:45, 10 January 2010 (UTC) P.S. when she accepts her award for best actress, she'll surely mention how shes Irish. - KugelsackIstSoInZisSeazon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.197.90 (talk) 19:51, 10 January 2010 (UTC) To think that I'm trying to force the "American" title on her because she's talented is completely ignorant. American law states that anyone born in the United States is automatically a citizen. She was an American citizen FIRST. The policy I stated says that that is to be included. Country of birth is to be included in the first paragraph. RyanGFilm (talk) 00:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC) How was she an American citizen first? Irish citizenship is granted automatically at birth. The policy states "previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." Since she has never asserted American citizenship nor claimed to be American it is misleading to try and label her as such. The fact that she was born in New York is explained in the article. She became famous as an IRISH actress and always refers to her self as Irish in any interview. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 01:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC) As I just stated above, her country of birth IS relevant to her notability because she became famous making AMERICAN movies. I still don't see why "American-born Irish Actress" still isn't acceptable. Policy supports it and it was also a dispute resolution on Nicole Kidman's page.RyanGFilm (talk) 01:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC) She became famous making American movies as an IRISH actress. The article already mentions her place of birth. She asserts her Irish nationality consistently. She makes no such claims on American citizenship. For all we know she could have renounced any American citizenship she may have possessed but we can't say for sure as we don't know. What we do know is that she is an Irish citizen and identifies as such so this should be enough. Once again, her place of birth is mentioned in the article. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 01:56, 11 January 2010 (UTC) RyanGFilm, you're wrong. The only person who's come even close to agreeing with you is Peregrine, and that was only in the interest of finding a compromise. No compromise is necessary here, however, because you're clearly, unequivocally, and without question, wrong. Please let it go now. UnitAnode 02:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Don't forget about ThemFromSpace. He pointed out the same policy as I did. And instead of just saying that I'm wrong, why don't you actually prove it? I have stated policy which states that the nation of birth needs to be included in the first paragraph if it is relevant to her notability. It is since she is notable due to making American movies. RyanGFilm (talk) 02:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC) As for Themfromspace, it appears that he might simply have a misunderstanding of the basic facts, based upon your gross misrepresentation of them. You have an agenda here, and you're trying to push it. There's no place for it, and I'm frankly quite sick of dealing with it. It's been pointed out to you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over that policy doesn't say what you claim it says. I even posted the closest thing to what you might be referring to, and proved categorically that you are either willfully misrepresenting policy, or completely ignorant of what it says. You need to stop now. UnitAnode 05:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC) I've reported this to the Mediation Cabal, so let's see what the Mediator says.RyanGFilm (talk) 02:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC) RyanGFilm, there's nothing to "mediate." You want an inaccurate descriptor entered in the lede. No one agreed with you after you requested comments. I won't agree to any mediation, because there's nothing here to mediate. Consensus, as well as the facts, are against you here. Let it go. UnitAnode 05:14, 11 January 2010 (UTC) She became famous acting in a British movie. Atonement was a British film. After this she started acting in American movies. Her place of birth is mentioned in the article. Her nationality is Irish. Saoirse herself confirms this along with most other sources. The fact that she was born in New York is a footnote not a defining factor. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 02:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Hammertime, Atonement was not handled by one single country-based company. It was financed by StudioCanal, Relativity Media and Working Title Films. It was distrubuted by Universal Pictures, Focus Features and StudioCanal. Relativit Media, Universal and Focus Features are American companies. 3 out of the 5 companies that made the film are American. As for you, Unitanode, I will no longer interact with you. Not because you disagree with me, but because of how uncivil you are. Hammertime2009 and Kuge disagree with me, but I like them. They disagree while actually discussing it. You refuse discussion altogether and I can only handle talking to a wall for only so long. RyanGFilm (talk) 13:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Hi, it's me again (yay), she actually got her first acting break as Rhiannon Geraghty in the Irish television series The Clinic, on RTE, the Irish broadcaster. Ryan, were both stubborn people, but when theres one of you againsed all of us- like in this arguement, just let it GO! Besides, about the film thing, the only American film thats made her arguably famous is City Of Ember, and that was filmed in Ireland. And I'm sure if the girl was to know about us sad computer nerds arguing passionately about some small detail about her life on the web, she'd be worried. There are so many other things to be doing! - KugelsackIstSoInZisSeazon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.197.90 (talk) 03:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Kuge, two other people have agreed with me with the previously stated policy, so I'm not all alone. I like your response, nonetheless. Very cool and laid back. RyanGFilm (talk) 13:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC) I don't care who you "interact" with. There's no point in discussing things at length with you, when you insist that things that aren't true (or remotely close to being true) must go into the article. I've tried to explain to you again and again, why you're off-base, but you're not interested. You want the lede to mention something about her being "American", and she's not American, it's really as simple as that. Frankly, whether you "like" me, or dislike me, I don't give a flying flip. This isn't Myspace or Facebook, so no one is required to "like" anyone else, and "unfriending" isn't an option. On that note, you may want to rethink your userpage. It reads like a Myspace profile, which isn't acceptable. We're editing an encyclopedia, not letting the world know our favorite movies, or trying to convince total strangers that we're "cool." UnitAnode 13:56, 11 January 2010 (UTC) I have to agree with Unitanode here. RyanGFilm, you are unable to grasp the concept that she's not American but you seem to want to label her as such due to an accident of birth. As far as we know she may have renounced any American citizenship she MAY have had and probably never had an American passport to begin with. We don't know but you are presuming. This is original research which is invaild. What we do know for a fact is that she is an Irish citizen from birth, born to Irish parents, living in Ireland, going to school in Ireland and self-identifies as Irish. This is not in dispute nor has to be speculated upon. Why do you then want to label her as American? Her place of birth is mentioned in the article. The fact she was born in America has nothing to do with her film career. She didn't get the parts because of her birth so that point is moot. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 14:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Once again - the policy states that her country of birth is to be stated if it is relevant to her notability. It is relevant because she is notable having made primarily American movies. I have pointed out that the same exact thing happened to Nicole Kidman and this same exact argument was had on her discussion page and it was determined by a mediator that policy stated that her country of birth needed to be in the first paragraph. I've pointed this out several times. Are you ignoring it, or did you just not see it? Again, it is not an inaccurate statement to have "American-born Irish Actress" in the opening paragraph. RyanGFilm (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Once again, policy says nothing of the sort -- at least not in this context. Her place of birth is mentioned in the body text of the article, and is superfluous in the lede, since it has nothing to do with her notability. And don't move my comments around to suit yourself. UnitAnode 00:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC) RyanGFilm, Her nationality is Irish. Their is no such nationality as "American born Irish". Her place of birth is mentioned in the article as it is. By trying to label her as "American born Irish" it is giving the impression that she is an American actress with Irish connections. This is false. She does not identify with being American whatsoever, as it has been consistantly pointed out to you here already, so it is inappropriate for you to try and shoe-horn an incorrect definition into this article to suit your own agenda. They're is nothing notable about making movies in the country of one's birth. It is mearly trivia. You're grasping at straws by using this as a tool to have her labeled as American. - Hammertime2009 (talk) 00:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Once again, you're ignoring what I'm saying, Hammertime and not answering my questions. RyanGFilm (talk) 01:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC) I would just like to weigh in here since I made the original edit. I can tell you this, you have very little knowledge of the way citizenship works if you think she is still a registered citizen of the United States. She most definitely is not. First of all, her parents being Irish could have easily applied for her Irish citizenship while abroad and this is in fact automatic according to the laws of Ireland Irish Citizenship Information. This is likely given that they were only living in New York at the time and were probably planning to move back, it would also be ridiculous for to remain a US citizen if permanently living in Ireland, attending Irish schools, needing access to Irish amenities etc. Anyway the crux of this argument is this: "American-born Irish Actress" is ridiculous and very misleading as it pertains to her legal citizenship and how the actor identifies themselves, we have no legal source to backup her US citizenship and she identifies herself as Irish. Thats the final straw for me, the actor identifies as Irish and has lived here the majority of her life. I suggest that until you can find a source that can prove she has and still holds American citizenship then the overwhelming amount of evidence points to her being an Irish citizen. Anyway sorry If I'm repeating whats already been said, this is a bit of a saga at the moment and I just want to lend another voice to that of common sense. --Robnubis (talk) 11:41, 21 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks, I'm not Kuge though, it's "Kugelsack Ist So In Zis Seazon", I just saw Bruno and loved the way he spoke! And why isn't Peter Jackson on your favourite directors list?! I cant wait for Toy story 3 either! I'd better shut up before a whistleblower stings me for improper use of talk pages or something. P.S. Saoirse Ronan is IRISH! --86.41.197.90 (talk) 22:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC) No worries. If you want to have general discussion feel free to head on over to my page and leave me a message :) RyanGFilm (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC) This RFC should be closed. There's no consensus for RyanGFilm's repeated additions of unsourced content, so I think it's over now. UnitAnode 01:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC) I suggest that you both read WP:SNOW. The Ministry (talk) 10:40, 20 January 2010 (UTC) How would that help me exactly? I've been arguing that this nonsense RFC be closed as having achieved no consensus. UnitAnode 11:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC) QUOTE:"Simply being born in a country doesn't make you "American." She self-identifies as Irish." Actually, you are quite wrong. Being born in the USA automatically makes her an American citizen, and only she, upon reaching the age of 18, can renounce her American citizenship, so technically he would be correct to categorize her as such until when and if she were to renounce her American citizenship. However, given that her family was in the US working, and had no plans on residing there permanently, as well as self identification as being 'Irish', I would leave it as Irish. She is an American citizen, but I think in most aspects she is not culturally American. In the case of Nicole Kidman, she choose to invoke her American citizenship in order to easily gain work and residence here without any impediment, which would be considered publicly identifying as American. This was also the case with Bruce Lee, and Wales born Timothy Dalton . Eamon De Valera would be defined as American, due to the fact that his American citizenship was one of the major reasons he was not executed with Michael Collins and the bunch. I would conclude that she has identified as Irish, and her American birth was almost an accident, she is still a minor, and I would not identify her as American until when and if she takes steps to relocate or use her American citizenship in some tangible and public way.(75.69.241.91 (talk) 06:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)) United States nationality law is unusual in that it confers automatic nationality on any individuals born in the country without their request or consent until the age of 18. Note that the Manual of Style policy states: "In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national" (my emphasis). The case of an immigrant family, whose members live in a country for a brief period of time and then return to the country of origin of the parents during the child's infancy, is certainly not a normal case. If there is a source currently not cited that outlines Ronan's sense of American nationality, this would change the situation. AtSwimTwoBirds (talk) 02:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Can I conclude therefore that under the law suggested if a cat has kittens in the oven they must be cookies109.154.41.195 (talk) 20:52, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Moving others' comments

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

A note to RyanGFilm: moving other people's comments -- when repeatedly asked not to do so -- is completely unacceptable. UnitAnode 01:47, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

As stated before - it was moved so that the conversation is in the right section. RyanGFilm (talk) 04:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Your view of what constitutes the "right section" is ludicrous, at best. You can not just move other people's comments because you don't like where they were placed. If you continue disrupting this page in that way, I'll be forced to report your disruption. UnitAnode 00:52, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I've moved them so that anyone who wants to contribute can see the whole conversation. Mostly did this for the mediator. I have already pointed out the policy on reverts and edit wars. Revert my edit again and I will have to report you. RyanGFilm (talk) 00:30, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Unless you can provide a policy that states that comments cannot be moved no matter what. Then I'd be happy to oblige. RyanGFilm (talk) 00:34, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I am under no obligation to provide you with anything, but simply read the talkpage guidelines. You are effectively editing my comments by moving them out of the order in which I posted them, and giving them different level headers. That is beyond unacceptable, and it makes you look like a jackass when you keep doing it after I've told you that you need to stop. UnitAnode 00:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the personal attacks and name-calling. I'll be sure to mention that to the admins :) RyanGFilm (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry though. I asked an admin and he/she said that it is generally frowned upon so being that I am not one to make the admins mad, I will not move your comments out of this section. RyanGFilm (talk) 10:53, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

You have far too much respect for adminship. Basically, the admin told you the same thing I've been telling you. Also, telling you that your actions "make you look like a jackass" isn't a personal attack but, ironically enough, falsely accusing others of personal attacks is considered a breach of civility. UnitAnode 11:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually telling someone that IS a personal attack. RyanGFilm (talk) 13:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

No, it's not. If I were to say, "RyanGFilm, you are a jackass", you'd be right. Informing you that your actions make you look like a jackass is not. Take another look at the NPA policy. You'll see it. UnitAnode 17:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

There is no difference between saying I look like one and calling me one. RyanGFilm (talk) 13:22, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

pronunciation of Saoirse

What a pickle. We give /ˈsiːərʃə/ ("SEE-er-sha"), but then provide a reference (The Telegraph) that actually writes it as "Sir-sha". Meanwhile, the The Guardian quotes her as saying "You actually say it ­'Sairsha'... But you can also say it ­Sersha, or Seersha – both are OK."

I'm changing it to /ˈsɛərʃə/ ("SAIR-sha") on the basis of The Guardian quote. No doubt it will be changed again at some point, but please provide appropriate sources. Lfh (talk) 15:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

All are acceptable really. It just depends on regional accent as to why it pronounced differently. Hammertime2009 (talk) 02:58, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Here is yet another sourced pronunciation (American Standard English) in case any regular editor here wants to match it to Wikipedia:Pronunciation_respelling_key. Source: People (magazine), April 11, 2011, page 32, Time, Inc., "Say What??: Scoop's handy pronunciation guide to today's tricky celebrity names." Saoirse Ronan's name is written as "SEER-shuh RO-nuhn." 5Q5 (talk) 15:17, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

If Saoirse herself says "You actually say it ­'Sairsha'", then why is SEER-shə there? Someone insists on something "OK" or "acceptable" (according to Hammertime2009) for the pronunciation. It shouldn’t be how others might pronounce it. Who cares? I think how she says her own name should be what is used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.73.64.142 (talk) 16:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Saoirse Ronan was on Jimmy Kimmel Live! two days ago. He addressed her as Sersha (Sir-sha) and asked if that was the correct pronounciation to which she replied: "Yes, that's perfect." I think an edit is in order. --91.89.231.229 (talk) 22:07, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

The reason that the ‘ee’ ([iː]) pronunciation is supported by people is that that is how you actually pronounce ‘ao(i)’ in Irish (Standard Irish, that is, so it’s more than just “acceptable”). An ‘ay’ ([eː]) occurs alternatively in some positions in Munster Irish. As for the English pronunciation of the name, I’ve heard all kinds of things. Good thing she herself doesn’t seem to mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.64.73.175 (talk) 22:09, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Inclusion of her name in Irish

I would suggest the inclusion of Saoirse Ronan's name in Irish, which is Saoirse Úna Ní Rónáin. This has also been done in other articles about Irish people, such as Roddy Doyle. This is the format which has been used for the Roddy Doyle article:

Roddy Doyle (Irish: Ruaidhrí Ó Dúill; born 8 May 1958 in Dublin) is an Irish novelist, dramatist and screenwriter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ancatmara (talk • contribs) 15:13, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Middle name

There is no mention of her second middle name "Clodagh" but she might have changed that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.69.166.190 (talk) 00:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Saoirse Ronan wins Maureen O'Hara Award

<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.rte.ie/ten/2012/0922/ronans.html|title=Saoirse Ronan wins Maureen O'Hara Award|work=RTÉ Ten|publisher=RTÉ|date=22 September 2012|accessdate=22 September 2012}}</ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.105.176 (talk • contribs) 22 September 2012

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 19:28, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Think Nicole Kidman and Mila Kunis.

She's an American born Irish actress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.30.71.10 (talk) 16:10, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Ambiguous wording in the very first paragraph

In this sentence:

She came to international prominence in 2007 after co-starring in the film Atonement with James McAvoy and Keira Knightley, making her one of the youngest actresses ever to receive nominations for the Academy Award, BAFTA and the Golden Globe Award.

Does that mean that she was one of the youngest actresses ever to receive nominations for all of them collectively, or each one individually?

I won't check back here but I encourage anyone who knows the answer to resolve the ambiguity. Thanks! 67.188.10.67 (talk) 13:59, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

 Done Fixed --Musdan77 (talk) 00:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Actress/actor

Although the article Actor and Actor#Terminology is ambiguous, basically since the 1950s and 1960s, actor or actress can be used for a female actor (though most awards have stuck with "actress"). See, for example, this piece on The Guardian's Style Guide. Ronan herself, however, refers to herself as an actor. Reference 1: "So I'm glad I'm only really starting now," she says firmly. "Because it means I can be seen as an actor as opposed to a child ­actor." Reference 2: Interviewer: "Well, it does seem like you are, to paraphrase Daisy, "taking risks and stepping outside of your comfort zone." Ronan: "Yeah, I hope so. You know, when you take risks as an actor, I think the default thing for a lot of people is to do something kind of racy, or really out there." It would seem reasonable, therefore, to refer to her as such in this article. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:36, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

She said that when she was 15 years old and she is now 21. Her point was not that she was an actor and not an actress. Her point was that she could be seen as more than just a child actor but rather as an actor due to her Oscar nomination. She put no emphasis on her being an actor and not an actress. The term child actor is used a lot more often than child actress, which is why she referred to herself as being more than a "child actor" instead of using the word "actress" for "child actress".

There are various sources in the article (many of which are recent) that refer to her as an actress so there is no reason for her to be referred to as an "actor" instead of an "actress". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryantriplex (talk • contribs) 17:32, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Except that she refers to herself in the two references supplied as an actor, not as an actress; your rather strange interpretation of one direct quote aside. Consider this a WP:3RR warning. Stop removing material and references from reliable sources or you will be blocked. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:22, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't matter the term she used in a quote when it comes to the infobox and opening sentence. Those are always "actress" on WP. Unless that changes in the future (and it might), or if the individual article has consensus for it, it could be different, but right now it's not the case. --Musdan77 (talk) 22:59, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Are they, Musdan77? I've seen articles where female actors (admittedly a minority) are referred to as actors, not actresses. I can't find a style guide/WP:MOS entry that implies "actress" should be used. I have, however, found Wikipedia:Gender-neutral_language, which explicitly states: "When the subject prefers a gendered term. This includes a woman preferring a masculine term, for example: 'From 1998 to 2000, she [Esther Dyson] was the founding chairman (not chairwoman or chairperson) of ICANN, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers.'" As Whoopi Goldberg put it in an interview: 'An actress can only play a woman. I'm an actor – I can play anything.' Ronan identifies as an actor, not as an actress, and policy would seem to indicate that she should therefore be referred to as an actor. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 23:31, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't know why you would use Whoopi Goldberg as an example when it actual goes against your view, since that article has "actress" in the infobox and opening sentence. I'd like to see an example of an article where "actor" is used for a female. I didn't say there was an MOS, and WP:GNL (which isn't an MOS) doesn't mention "actor" or "actress". I'm not completely opposed to it, but like I said, consensus would have to be found for it first. --Musdan77 (talk) 02:44, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

My point with the Goldberg quote is that she too prefers the term "actor" and refers to herself as such - regardless of what WP uses. At the risk of immediately having another article changed (not necessarily by you!), the Helen Mirren article uses the term "actor" and carries a comment when one opens an edit box: " --PLEASE READ THE NOTE. Helen Mirren prefers to call herself an ACTOR and it's a GENDER NEUTRAL term, it applies to women as well as to men (see article history) - " You're admitting that no part of the MOS says that "actress" must be used. WP:GNL may not specifically mention "actress" but it does say to use gender-neutral language, and if an actor refers to themselves as an actor, rather than actress, I really think that's what we should use. MOS:GNL and MOS:IDENTITY - which are actually part of the Manual of Style - would appear to agree. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 11:43, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the one example, but I repeat once more, the Helen Mirren article is that way because consensus was established long ago, and that's what would have to be done here. (Btw, MOS:GNL is talking about avoiding the generic he, which I personally disagree with.) --Musdan77 (talk) 15:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

You repeat once more - where else did you say it? :-) Yes, it's one example, but it's an example in keeping with the MOS. This article would appear to be in breach of it - regardless of your or mine opinion on it. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 15:55, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Let me put it another way, consensus trumps an MOS. Any issue on any article is subject to consensus (except for actual policy - and consensus is policy). --Musdan77 (talk) 16:12, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Even though the WP:MOS is itself arrived at as the result of WP:CONSENSUS... :-) Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:25, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Again, we're talking about the individual article. --Musdan77 (talk) 15:12, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, Musdan, I don't accept that the MOS can be overruled by one or two authors on particular articles. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:35, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Once again, Musdan - I don't believe that a "consensus" of a couple of editors actually trumps policy. Especially when the consensus includes blocked editors, one of whom has a total of 163 edits and one of whom has a total of two edits. The editor not currently blocked, who favours your wording but has not put forward any argument here, has 25 edits, total. So even if consensus did trump policy, it hasn't been established. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 09:51, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

• Personally I believe Actress is fine, Not sure about others but I tend to think "Actor" is a male and "Actress" is a female so changing them only serves to perhaps confuse everyone ?, The cites above are her opinions as a "Child actor" not as a full actress if that makes sense, Perhaps an RFC is the best way to go instead of edit warring. –Davey2010^Talk 19:33, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Opinions as a child actor? No, they're not - the Slant magazine quote was from when she was 19; the Guardian article - well: "Because it means I can be seen as an actor as opposed to a child ­actor" (my emphasis) is plain English. If she was trying to distinguish herself solely from childhood acting, would she not have said "I can be seen as an actress as opposed to a child actor"? But yeah, RFC is probably the way to go. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 19:52, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree very much with the way Davey2010 worded it (1st sentence). And yes (re: your edit summary), your edits have been disruptive in that you deliberately and repeatedly went against other editors and refuse to work with them to come to a consensus. Consensus doesn't trump policy; it is policy. --Musdan77 (talk) 16:03, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

And what is the WP:MOS, then? A guideline that can be ignored because an editor favours old-fashioned language? (Do you still get served by air stewardesses when on an plane, or is it cabin crew? What if the cabin crew member tells you she's cabin crew, not a stewardess?) Again, you aside, the "other editors I went against" include two blocked users, one of whom has a total of 163 edits and one of whom has a total of two edits. The editor not currently blocked, who favours your wording, has 25 edits, total. (But really - quack!.) "Refuse to work with them to build consensus" - check above. Who opened this discussion? Oh, that'd be... me. So please stop the personal attacks and templating people who have been editing longer than you with newbie templates. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:26, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

You might want to have a read of this - some excellent points made. If you're not too busy changing Lady Gaga to songstress, Harper Lee to authoress, Tina Fey to comedienne, and Elizabeth Blackwell to "lady doctor"; and write to the Screen Actors Guild, asking them to throw out the members with vaginas, and/or change the name of their "Best Female Actor" award... Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:55, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, MOS is a guideline - period. Now, I didn't say "just a guideline", because they are important, but they're not absolute. A discussion is not posting your opinion and then changing article to how you want it. The editor that you say is so inexperienced seems to know more about how things work on WP than you, by what he said in his edit summary here. How long an editor has been at WP is not near as relevant as how much experience (edit count). You didn't respond to Davey2010's first sentence, and he has more experience than you and I combined. There have not been any personal attacks against you here. And you should read what you give links to first. WP:QUACK is about sockpuppetry. As for the so-called "newbie template", I will respond (more appropriately) on your own talk page. I am not interested in changing those articles, like you want to change this one. It's not "my wording"; it's the way it's been since the article was created 8 years ago. And you mentioned the SAG Awards, and even quoted how they use "Female Actor". That's much different from just actor. --Musdan77 (talk) 17:40, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Davey's first sentence is a personal opinion. And yes, I know what WP:QUACK refers to. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:43, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, of course, it's his opinion - and mine (as I mentioned), as well as others. You gave your opinion, so did we. That's all part of finding consensus. --Musdan77 (talk) 18:56, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

I prefer facts to opinion. The fact that we've a WP:MOS which covers Gender-neutral language, and MOS:IDENTITY, for example. I'm done arguing this with you, I'll open an RFC at some point. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 20:16, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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Lead: Irish... American...

The issue has once again come up (e.g., see the section "American-born Irish actress" above) about how we label Ronan in the lead sentence. I'm trying to avoid an edit war (though I understand User:Sir Joseph and I are both assuming and editing in good faith). According to my experience and knowledge, Irish-American generally refers (at least in the United States) to American citizens who have Irish ancestry but not citizenship; obviously, Ronan wouldn't fall under this definition. American-Irish presumably then refers to Irish citizens who have American ancestry but not citizenship; this doesn't work then either (yet someone has interestingly put Ronan's image on the page Americans in Ireland). The truth is that Ronan is a dual citizen (Irish AND American), with her upbringing taking place vastly more in Ireland; however, my attempted happy-medium description of her being "American-born, Irish-raised" was reverted in favor of "Irish-American" again (with only raw links given for sources). Can we please have more voices to determine some kind of consensus on this? Thanks! Wolfdog (talk) 17:45, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

The term "Irish-American" refers to someone in her situation, being Irish and American. Originally, before she was an adult, the article had something similar to your preferred edit. However, she has said, and my links have her parents reason, that she uses her American citizenship to her advantage, she is using it for her career and travel. That would mean it should remain as Irish-American.

(I would also not put too much faith in the discussion above, where it was claimed you don't become an American citizen merely by being born in the US.) American born Irish raised just doesn't sound good to me. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 17:54, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I understand your reasoning, but the article Irish American doesn't confirm that the term refers specifically to people like Ronan who have dual Irish and American citizenship. It refers to "Americans" (presumably, in the sense of American citizens) who have "ancestry from Ireland" (presumably, NOT in the sense of Irish citizens). I'm not disputing that Ronan is a dual citizen, or that the labels Irish and American don't equally apply; I'm disputing whether the term "Irish-American" is the best, clearest choice for the lead. Wolfdog (talk) 05:23, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Born to Irish parents in America, raised in Ireland. "American-born Irish actor" works. (She uses the gender neutral term "actor" herself, a la Helen Mirren). We can include her dual citizenship later in the article. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 09:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

What about either American-Irish, which I guess is different than Irish-American which Wolfdog pointed out might mean different things. Or, Saoirse is an Irish and American actor....?Sir Joseph ^(talk) 19:33, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Others in favor of American-born Irish, American-Irish, or Irish and American? Wolfdog (talk) 14:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

One other thing to remember is that Saoirse now lives in the US, so she is not merely an American by birth who is Irish, but she is fully utilizing her American citizenship, to help her get roles, not go through a visa process and she is now living in NYC. Her being American should play prominently. I think Irish and American... is the way to go if people don't like Irish-American. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 15:47, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with keeping it irish-american. Lisabedwell89 (talk) 15:47, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

OK, but we needs arguments about why you feel that way. Wolfdog (talk) 00:02, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Because she is and "irish-american." She is of that ancestry. She was born in america. Raised in ireland. And now lives in america. Hence the term irish-american. Lisabedwell89 (talk) 04:13, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

I sense you haven't read my above comments. The term "Irish-American" implies a primary "Americanness" and secondary "Irishness". Almost always, it refers to American citizens who are ethnically Irish. Ronan, on the other hand, is equally an Irish and American citizen (as well as being "more Irish than American" by her upbringing and ethnicity... as a side-note). My concern is that WP readers will expect that she is only an American citizen and was raised in the United States if they read the lead sentence and it uses the term "Irish-American". When Rocca (Italian-American rapper) is referred to by the label in parentheses, it signifies that he is a born and raised U.S. citizen of Italian ethnicity. When Lilly Singh is called "Indo-Canadian", it is because she is a born and raised Canadian of Indian ethnicity. Wolfdog (talk) 23:11, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

@JJMC89: and @Crash Underride:, it seems like you may want to get in on this conversation. Wolfdog (talk) 18:16, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

As I mentioned on NeilN's talk page (I'll just copy and paste it here): "...She is Irish-American. She has a) dual citizenship and b) was born in New York City...last time I check that was in American. In other words, the definition of Irish-American..." ^{(talk page stalker)} CrashUnderride 18:57, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Please read the above comments. She's just as much American-Irish as Irish-American by your definition. In order to avoid favoring any one term (putting "American" on the right side of the hyphen implies that it is primary), some of us like the sound of "Irish and American". Wolfdog (talk) 13:46, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I am OK with Irish and American, but I would also agree with Irish-American. I am thinking we need an editnotice or something similar, since this page routinely gets vandalized by those removing her being an American. 🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 14:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

That seems like a bright idea to me. Wolfdog (talk) 19:29, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Irish-American != Irish and American. Per Wolfdog's comment of 6 September, using "Irish-American" is incorrect and will confuse or mislead readers. "Irish and American" is clear. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 11:35, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Just to note, Torah28 has been bloked for two weeks following this sock-puppet investigation and edit warring on this issue. User Kates87 blocked indefinitely. I suspect it's a little late/unnecessary at this point to ask for an SPI of other single-issue contributors. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 08:35, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

@Bastun, Bbb23, Dane2007, and NeilN: And Torah28 is making the same reverts once more. Wolfdog (talk) 22:58, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd agree that this user (Torah28) is at the end of their WP:ROPE for their inability to collaborate here. -- Dane2007 ^talk 03:48, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

And again.... 🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 19:39, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

• Bastun, Sir Joseph, Wolfdog, you may be interested in the recent edit by User:55eo55, who really needs to start a. explaining edits; b. discuss things on talk pages; c. read our policy on reliable sources and the BLP. Drmies (talk) 03:40, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I take that back, mostly: it was User:201.43.187.136 who messed in y'all's characterization. I don't know if that edit reminds you of the earlier editor(s). But 55eo55, my other points stand. Drmies (talk) 03:43, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support "Irish and American" - I would consider "Irish-American" to be she was born in Ireland but from a young age moved to America so IMHO "American-Irish" would be correct (as she was born in America to irish parents)... however .... "American-Irish" just sounds silly and quite honestly awful! .... Same goes for "American and Irish" it just sounds awful so Support "Irish and American". –Davey2010^Talk 03:52, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support, any. I honestly don't see too much of a difference between the choices and we should lock one down and use that. I would also propose an edit filter if possible because that seems to be the main form of vandalism on this page. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 14:20, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Can i get some clarification on why she is classified as American when she was raised in Ireland to Irish parents and spent no time in America apart from being born there. Does American really need to go in the opening sentence. There are numerous interviews in which she only classifies her nationality as Irish. Her citizenship will obviously be both because of her birthright but why would American go in the opening sentence when she is not in fact American and has zero American roots or any connection to the country apart from being born there. Stuv3 (talk) 03:34, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

It's a pathetic misappropriation to call her American. Not so surprising for overzealous Wikipedia editors to make their own facts. 91.10.26.220 (talk) 15:36, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Should this be changed to Irish actress who also obtains American citizenship as she is not American, and only holds birthright citizenship, born and raised in Ireland to Irish parents and lives there today. It is just stupidity and defaming to classify her as American as she has stated she is not on numerous occasions, but has always said she has citizenship. Just stubborn editors trying to get their way when a consensus could be agreed on to remove American yet they won't budge. How is she American? Will honestly never understand. Stuv3 (talk) 14:42, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

She has American citizenship, and as long as she choses not to give it up, she will be known as both an Irish and American actress. As several editors have discussed above, this is how it'll be. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 15:02, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

You make several claims but don't back them up with sources. Where has she said that she is not American? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Citizenship does not make you from that country or classify you as that nationality. Why is Angelina Jolie not classified as Cambodian or Kyrie Irving as Australia, literally the exact same scenario for Kyrie. Kyrie Irving was born in Melbourne, Australia and lived there until he was around 4 longer than Ronan has lived in the states. For these reasons Kyrie should be changed to Australian and American, but no ofcourse not editors won't want that to happen. It just makes no sense. If she lived there or her parents were from there, or even if she lived there as a child it would make sense, But being classified as a nationality because you were born there and lived there for the first 2 months of your life because your parents were on holiday just makes zero sense. This is just defamation of a BLP, and utter stupidity. Stuv3 (talk) 15:16, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Well here is one source were she specifically states 'I'M JUST IRISH' with no connotation to her being American at all. Specifically states that she was born in the bronx but is 'just Irish'. Surely this source is enough evidence. Stuv3 (talk) 15:25, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

In this interview she talks about moving to New York in adulthood and how she considers herself to be a New Yorker. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 18:08, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Anyone can consider themself a New Yorker if they live their for a short amount of time because they are conversed in the culture. She has not stated she is American has she? She does not live there anymore either, only lived their for a short amount of time roughly 3 years. I think an interview stating that she is 'JUST IRISH' would overide one where she feels like she is a New Yorker because she lived their for a while. But no ofcourse not to some stubborn editors who want her to be American. Stuv3 (talk) 01:27, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Torah's disruption

Could somebody please take a look at the disruptive edits made by Torah28? He has been previously blocked for his disruptions to this page. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 13:44, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

When asked on his talk page, this was his response, which is just... surreal. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 13:54, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Torah, stop removing a mixed review of Ronan's film with deliberately misleading edit summaries. --Krimuk2.0 (talk) 14:25, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Golden Globe?

the main page states a couple of times that she won the Golden Globe for Best Actress. There are actually 2 Golden Globes Best Actress awards given for acting - one for Comedy/Musical and one for Drama. Shouldn't this difference be accounted for by saying she won the Golden Globe for Best Actress in a Comedy/Musical? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrrich7 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Torah’s IP

Torah, please explain this. Why is mentioning a magazine appearance for an already well-established actress important? What is said in the interview profile holds far more value. Also, you are removing the date parameter from the reference with your reverts. --Krimuk2.0 (talk) 20:46, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

46.7.77.74 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) you do not once explain your edits here, but revert a million times. Stop it and explain yourself. You chose not to explain your previous reverts, but now explain why "In July 2018, Calvin Klein announced that Ronan would be the face of their new fragrance, named Women." is better than "Also that year, she became the face of Calvin Klein's new fragrance, named Women"?Krimuk2.0 (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

IP editors can't receive pings. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:53, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2020

Change her age to 26 as of today! 68.2.178.33 (talk) 15:17, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Automatically updated – Thjarkur (talk) 15:36, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Residence

This reference from The Times is used to source this statement, "As of January 2018, she resides in Greystones, County Wicklow, Ireland". Please explain your reasoning as to why this should be removed or a "better" source is needed, Nivari. Per WP:STATUSQUO you should let the text be as is, when there is disagreement, and instead of edit-warring, gain consensus for your change. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 17:12, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

It is July 2020 now. Nivari (talk) 17:37, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

So? Krimuk2.0 (talk) 19:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Irish and American actress?

Well, she did live in the US until she was 3, and in Ireland since. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.56.79 (talk) 09:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

She also clearly took advantage of her American citizenship in order to seek film roles in the US. Why anyone would post a question mark on the title is baffling. She's clearly asserted her U.S. citizenship. It isn't a matter of dispute. (Sellpink (talk) 13:49, 1 January 2019 (UTC))

Bruce Willis was born in Germany and moved to the USA when he was 2. Mila Kunis was born in Ukraine and moved to the USA when she was 7. They are both classified as "American" on Wikipedia. By the same logic, Ronan should be classified as "Irish". Wikipedia is clearly displaying bias towards the USA and I believe it would enhance the websites credibility to classify Ronan as "Irish" while fully acknowledging her American birth and her American citizenship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.238.190 (talk) 21:04, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

I dont think it's an american bias, I believe it to be anti irish by pro brit editors. If you look at pierce brosnan who has gained american citizenship, he is listed as irish/american, you cannot change this to "irish" without getting a ban, look then at emily blunt who also received american citizenship, there is a warning not to edit hers to english/american, it must remain "english" or else you get a ban. This page on saoirse Ronan and for example other irish actors such as jack reynor and michael Fassbender are listed as irish/american, irish/american and irish/german respectively. But if you look further you will see that the likes of millie bobby brown, who was born and raised in spain, is listed as "english" and emma watson, who was born and raised in france, is listed as "english", any edit to englsih/Spanish or english/French will gain you a ban. Editing pierce brosnan, saoirse Ronan, jack reynor or Michael fassbender to "irish" will gain you a ban. C.S. Lewis would roll over in his grave if he found out he was listed as "british" here, reading his wikipedia page will tell you this, yet even if you were to edit him as being "northern irish" you will gain yourself a ban. I used to think there was a set of rules that was followed here but clearly not. So the rule seems to be "if they're irish add it in, if they're english keep it out" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.233.45.196 (talk) 04:45, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Got any proof that this is some scheme hatched by "pro brit" editors? And it's funny because Irish editors (or American's with 12.5% Irish ancestry, lol) got very angry and caused constant disruption on pages such as Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington (unquestionably British, but even Anglo-Irish kept being removed!) Daniel Day-Lewis ("I have dual citizenship but England is my home country"), the artist Francis Bacon (Born to UK/Aussie Parents, never an Irish citizen, left at a young age permanently and when growing up went between Ireland and Britain which was then part of Britain until independence!). So pot calling the kettle fucking black. The Irish are just as keen to claim people who aren't theirs either. --2A00:23C4:3E0F:4400:C116:1709:91B4:D4A (talk) 20:16, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

You're a bit of simpleton, aren't you? I don't know many Irish people who claim Arthur Wellesley when he is where the famous "just because one was born in a stable does not make one a horse" quote comes from. A statement which applies very much to Saoirse Ronan.

1. Her parents were Irish.

2. She grew up in Ireland since she was 3 meaning she could barely walk or talk when she was in America.

3. She has only ever called herself Irish.

Saoirse is Irish full stop. You don't see us going around to Emma Watsons page insisting she should be called an "English and French" actress.

Stevenbfg (talk) 19:02, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

No. She is not "Irish full stop." Factual assertions are not based on emotional proclamations and jingoism. Your comments are suited for a fan forum and not for an encyclopedic entry. Her parents being Irish is entirely irrelevant. Whether she could "walk and talk" (and incidentally, I would surmise she could do both by the age of three) is not an argument of any sort. She was born an American citizen, she has asserted her American citizenship in order to work continually in the US and she has taken no overt action, at any point, to renounce her citizenship. Your comparison to Emma Watson makes no sense whatsoever as the bestowing of birthright citizenship is not in play in France. In summary, you don't make one logical point in your diatribe. She is an American citizen and should be categorized as such. The fact that you resort to personal insult in the opening sentence of your argument speaks volumes. Your hurt feelings do not trump facts Steven. Ronan is an Irish and American citizen. There is no debate here. The facts are clear and unquestionable. (Sellpink (talk) 17:31, 30 August 2020 (UTC))

Secondary education

Ronan was briefly educated in FCJ Secondary School in Bunclody, Co. Wexford.

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/wexford-gets-red-carpet-27479370.html

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0117/933935-saoirse-ronan-oscar-nominee/

https://www.advertiser.ie/index.php/carlowfirst/article/368/saoirse-to-step-onto-carlows-property-ladder

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/6011975

https://ww.issuu.us/slaneynews/docs/sn_issuu_108/17

Stinkynoodles123 (talk) 16:18, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Nationality

Encyclopædia Britannica describes Ronan as an Irish-American. I believe this is a strong enough source to base off of, as I don't see any sources describe her as Irish and American. The last time this was discussed thoroughly was in a consensus that occurred over 3 years ago (overdue for a more recent consensus IMHP), though none of the editors who were involved based their arguments on any sources calling her Irish and American. We're supposed to base our statements on sources, yet none of them support that, whereas now there is a strong reliable source referring to her as Irish-American. I have gone ahead and changed it to this, though if any other editors disagree, please do chime in here. Film Enthusiast ^talk 16:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the brave part of BRD. I really think a discussion must happen first, however, and we must consider the subject’s own views. I also do not put so much weight on EB alone. I will comment further later. SeoR (talk) 18:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Understood. I also think it's time for another, more recent, discussion on this, as I do stand by my statements. That said though, I do agree that basing it off of only one sole source isn't enough. If there are any other reliable sources which do support the Irish-American, I believe it is necessary for the change. Because as I previously stated, it should be about what the sources state, and I haven't found any call her an American, though several do refer to her as Irish. Would it be more appropriate to base off of and rely from sources more, rather than the subject's own views? Film Enthusiast^talk 19:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Previous editors decided on Irish and American. For what it’s worth she said "technically yes [she is American] as well, I was born in New York." in her Wired interview after the previous Irish question. Trillfendi (talk) 18:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Although previous editors did decide on that, as I said, there are still no sources supporting that. She has been referred to as Irish but not as an American. Or would something like American-born Irish be more suitable? That way, it is clear that she is an Irish citizen born in America. There wasn't anything against using that term (unless I missed reading something). Because two of the editors had no preference in using either one. Film Enthusiast^talk 19:50, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I personally find American-born Irish persuasive, and fitting sources and facts. Self-identification should be reflected in quality sources. More inputs needed... SeoR (talk) 19:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Should an RfC be utilized? — Film Enthusiast^✉ 00:58, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Sources state that she is Irish, and born in New York, hence American. Not seeing the complexity here. 2A00:1FA0:613:6648:F044:27AF:248:45E6 (talk) 07:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. American-born Irish. I see that as a better fit, since Irish-American sounds unfitting to some. No sources refer to her as solely an American, which is what it seems like from the and American part. It also doesn't help that she wasn't very affiliated with the US growing up, apart from only being born in New York. She moved back to Ireland when she was three, her parents are both Irish (I am assuming her entire family is Irish), she is Irish, therefore, the Irish part should be the central focus rather than the American part. — Film Enthusiast^✉ 16:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

@SeoR: @Trillfendi: Would American-born Irish be more suitable? Per my previous explanation above. Don't mean to sound so insistent by pinging you, just seems like the discussion got stalled. — Film Enthusiast^✉ 16:57, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't see anything unsuitable or ambiguous about Irish-American. Trillfendi (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

We have a perfectly workable and working consensus in place now - "Irish and American" - so why change it? There are no sources? Yes, there are - Saoirse Ronan, herself. "Irish-American" is someone of Irish ancestry, several generations back. I'd settle for American-born Irish, as we also have sources for that, per SeoR above, but that will likely attract more changes from driveby editors. Note that there is no consensus on Brittanica being a reliable source - see WP:BRITANNICA. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 18:33, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

A working consensus which occurred five years ago (one brief discussion about it occured over one year ago, with no real progress). I'm not saying it's no longer valid, but there's no issue with reviving a previous discussion. That's what this talk page is for. To discuss disagreements. That said though, I could also settle for American-born Irish, but I don't see American and Irish as a better option. Both terms are subject of attracting changes from drive-by editors, as previously seen, so might as well try it out anyway. — Film Enthusiast^✉ 20:20, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

So shall we go with American-born Irish? Doesn't seem like anyone is against using that option. If not, then the next step will be opening up an RFC. • Film Enthusiast^✉ 20:45, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Works for me. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 21:04, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2021

L.S.,

In the "Accolades and achievements" it says 'Atonement (2001)" which should be 'Atonement (2007)"

Thank you! Friels (talk) 07:38, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 08:21, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Historical paintings

The Shepherdess (1889) could have been a double if she were not of a totally different period in time. --93.201.161.159 (talk) 01:17, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2022

Please remove the section about saiorse's boyfriend performing cunnilingus on her that a vile creep added 7 minutes ago. 24.116.182.211 (talk) 18:17, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done, thank you. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 18:19, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2022

In the Personal Life section change Northern England to Scotland.

Ronan spent much of 2020 and 2021 in Edinburgh where Jack Lowden owned an apartment. They continue to return regularly to Scotland where Jack’s family reside. There is no evidence to support the claim that she spends much of her time in Northern England. She divides her time between Dublin, London and Scotland 2A01:4B00:F41D:B300:C874:CBC5:452A:E21B (talk) 16:06, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Per cited source Having now achieved the level of fame where public transport is a no-go, she opts to live as quietly as possible between Dublin, London, and the north of England, with her long-term boyfriend Jack Lowden, another Scottish actor. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:58, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Macbeth was not performed in West End

Says 2021 revival of Macbeth was in the West End - it was actually at the Almeida Theatre in London which is not part of the West End DubrowAlert (talk) 00:00, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

That's an interesting point, will look into it, and check for any needed citation. Thanks; we should be accurate about things like West End vs general London scene. SeoR (talk) 00:08, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Irish transcription

The Irish language IPA transcription given for Saoirse is [ˈsˠiːɾʲʃə] with a slender r this should be changed to [ˈsˠiːɾˠʃə] with a broad r. 2A01:B340:83:2B44:4C27:50A5:D76C:696B (talk) 00:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 January 2024

The Irish language IPA transcription given for Saoirse is Irish: [ˈsˠiːɾʲʃə…] with a slender r this should be changed to Irish: [ˈsˠiːɾˠʃə…] with a broad r. 2001:BB6:B84C:CF00:4C7C:784E:56DF:B8DF (talk) 15:46, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source for this one way or the other we could point to? PianoDan (talk) 21:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I don’t have a source for this word specifically but all modern Irish dialects don’t allow for a slender r followed by another slender alveolar consonant, a similar phenomenon prevents word initial slender r.

Here () is a source on the phonotactic constraint I found from the Irish phonology#Post-vocalic consonant clusters and epenthesis, though it can be found in practical all extensive phonetic studies of the language. 2001:BB6:B84C:CF00:4C7C:784E:56DF:B8DF (talk) 21:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

References

 Done PianoDan (talk) 18:16, 30 January 2024 (UTC)