Talk:Peregonovka offensive
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 | This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Batalla de Peregonovka from the Spanish Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. |
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Requested move 30 July 2024
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 | It has been proposed in this section that Peregonovka offensive be renamed and moved to Battle of Peregonovka. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
Peregonovka offensive → Battle of Peregonovka – Dushnilkin just unilaterally moved this article from "Battle of Peregonovka" to "Peregonovka offensive", without any prior discussion or consensus building on the matter. Their edit summary states "All sources in the article do not reflect the battle for the village, they refer to a full-scale battle in the Uman-Peregonovka area along the entire front, such a name would be correct".
Now, this is very confusing, because none of the sources refer to this as an "offensive": Avrich 1971 uses the term "battle of Peregonovka" in the index and never uses the term "offensive" in sections about the Makhnovists; Darch 2020 refers to it as the "Battle of Peregonovka" and alternatively as the "Battle at Peregonovka", he never uses "Peregonovka offensive" (the only time he refers to an "offensive" in the Peregonovka chapter refers to the broader White gains in mid-to-late 1919); Footman 1961 describes Peregonovka as "one of the decisive battles of the Civil War in the south", he never refers to an "offensive" in the context of Peregonovka; Malet 1982 describes at as the "Battle of Perehonivka" (in the Ukrainian fashion), he never mentions an "offensive" in the context of Peregonovka; Shubin 2010 doesn't describe it as either a "battle" or an "offensive", he uses the term "sudden strike [...] at Peregonovka"; Skirda 2004 refers to it as the "battle of Peregonovka", even describes it as a "crucial battle", he never refers to an "offensive" in the context of Peregonovka.
So none of the sources refer to it as an offensive and almost all of them describe it as a battle. I don't know what rationale there was for moving this other than naked OR, but it sure wasn't enough for a unilateral move. Grnrchst (talk) 14:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Czar, Nederlandse Leeuw, Ze'ev Red, and Mellk: Courtesy ping to some of the other article contributors. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:01, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. We should revert undiscussed moves that appear not to be supported by WP:RS when the previous title was supported by WP:RS. I think Grnrchst has made a good case for this. NLeeuw (talk) 15:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- I called this article an offensive, since the data on the forces of the parties and losses relate to large-scale operations in the area of the Uman-Peregonovka(per Tilitsin 1998) front, much smaller forces participated directly in the battle of Peregonovka. Dushnilkin (talk) 15:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- So does Tilitsin describe it as an "offensive", or is that your own original interpretation? Because it looks to me as though it took quite a few logical leaps to end up at "Peregonovka offensive". Reliable sources pretty uniformly refer to it as the Battle of Peregonovka, but you changed the name to something none of the sources say because you thought the "data" said something different? Help me understand. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:40, 30 July 2024 (UTC)