Talk:Neoaves

Latest comment: 1 year ago by Jts1882 in topic Supraordinal clades and names

Problematic

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First, adding a cladogram adds more authority o this article than is warranted. Second, using Hackett et al (2008) is bad, because it is long superceded and (in parts) robustly refuted. Third, the recent studies (2001 and later) suggest that there is a "hard polytomy" at the base of at least the "higher landbirds". Fourth, what's with the subtaxa - this is complete crap. The only main subgroup of Neoaves that is formally named are the Aequornithes, and apart from that you also have Cypselomorphae/Strisores and Mirandornithes (which may be part of Aequornithes), but that's about it at present.

(From my own analyses, I suspect the "higher landbirds" are a clade, too. But not all neoavian landbirds belong there. Doves, cuckoos+allies, Strisores do not AFACITATM.) Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 19:59, 22 March 2012 (UTC)Reply

This article is obviously in need of work. I don't have access to the relevant sources, but someone who does should make more recent/better supported research take center stage, preferably without editorializing about how likely/unlikely certain scenarios are beyond quoting papers. MMartyniuk (talk) 13:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)Reply


Neoaves

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Hi. Jetz et al. is just based on the nodes of Ericson et al. (2006) and Hackett et al. (2008). They just assumed that all genera were monophyletic.

  • Ericson et al. (2006) Diversification of Neoaves: Integration of molecular sequence data and fossils. Biol Lett 2(4):543-7.
  • Hackett et al. (2008) A phylogenomic study of birds reveals their evolutionary history. Science 320(5884):1763-8.--

Ornithodiez (talk) 03:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

And so? Why would this mean that we couldn't use Jetz et al? Do you have any published sources supporting your claim that the paper by Jetz et al. is not a generally accepted classification?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:17, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Reply
As i said, they just used the nodes of Ericson et al. (2006) and Hackett et al. (2008), and they assumed that all genera were monophyletic. I can give the paper if you don't understand this. Also, i'm a biologist, so i know what i'm talking about.--Ornithodiez (talk) 05:36, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Reply
We understand what you said. You apparently don't understand us. If all Jetz et al. did was copy others, as you say, then we should delete Jetz et al. if anyone. Also, can you demonstrate that Hackett agrees with Ericson, or with Jetz's merger of the two? You've given no reason not to include both.
Sorry, but you're going to need to convince us, not just stomp your foot and demand we obey. You're also running up against WP:3RR, which can get you blocked. — kwami (talk) 05:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Reply
First, you are a neophyte that are talking to a professional in this subject. And finally, i have no problem in provide you the paper of Jetz et al., so you can finally read that methodology.--Ornithodiez (talk) 06:27, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Reply
A professional ought to be able to explain better than that. Why does the fact that a classification reuses older classifications mean that it should be removed from this article? And could you provide some published articles that critique Jetz et al, I am afraid that even if you are a professional that doesn't mean that we can exclude that source just because you don't like it. You have to show us that it doesn't currently have validity in the biological community.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)Reply

Supraordinal clades and names

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I've being looking at the supraordinal groups and which have Wikipedia articles and which are used in the taxonomy template hierarchy.

Any thoughts? —  Jts1882 | talk  09:53, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply