Talk:Mohammad Bakri

Jenin Jenin

Shouldn't it be mentioned that this director is extremely controversial and Jenin Jenin is nothing more than a propaganda piece, as ruled by a [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42404 French court]? I'll add this section someday if no one else does, but the wording etc. may need adjustments. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 17:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Propaganda? Seems more like mass censorship IMO. But I agree with you, that is a subject that needs to be brought to light. Avador 17:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

It’s time to update this article… Fact: Nineteen years after the film was made, Bakri lost a court case to Lt. Col. Nissim Magnani over defaming him in the film, and owes Magnani NIS 225,000. Bakri has appealed to the High Court and a verdict is expected in 2022. Source: https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-704174 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.26.60.16 (talk) 08:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Arab citizen

Just one question: Is any other state on earth being neglected like Israel is on Wiki? How can somebody in the year 1953 be born in "Palestine", if the place is far away from the disputed territories? One might not like it, and that might be understandable, but since 1948 this place is a part of the state of Israel. For somebody who does not the subtexts, Wikipedia loses its reliability and credibility exactly here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.77.156.138 (talk) 19:49, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

To the one who changed "Arab citizen of Israel" to Israeli-Arab: You won't find 'arab-israeli' a category on Wiki anymore, and that's because the term is out-of-date, as in, only in use by a small number of Arabs. Think of it kind of like the word 'negro.' Perhaps you didn't know this before, now ya do. I'm going to change it back for consistency's sake as well as Bakri's sake (I've met Mohammed Bakri and I can tell you that while he does call himself an Israeli at times, and at other times, 'Palestinian,' he does not ever call himself an 'Israeli-Arab.') BestLamaLoLeshLa (talk) 04:00, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

This sounds a bit like WP:OR. I'm keeping an open mind, but I'd prefer you convince me with sources (no disrespect to what Bakri doesn't call himself). Bakri was born and raised in Israel and was a regular in Tel Aviv and Israeli mainstream theaters (I've seen him also) and was an accepted member of the Israeli community up until he made the Jenin Jenin film, i.e. for the majority of his life. I'm also not aware that a "Arab with Israeli citizenship" is an accepted terminology anywhere, a google search for the expression comes up with less than 300 results. I'm thinking the term would work better if he had made the majority of his life outside Israel but this is not the case and his status as living in Israel while he became prominent is an integral part of the biography IMHO. Thoughts/Suggestions? Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 09:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

'Arab actor in Israel' was what was originally written and people (I'm assumed not Arab) went in and changed it to Arab-Israeli a bunch of times. This has been the subject of a lot of discussion and it has been agreed that 'Arab citizens of Israel,' which is very common terminology, is what should be used consistently, since it offends (almost) no one. Again, I refer you to the category "Arab citizens of Israel" - when you type in "Arab Israeli", it re-directs there. (i.e. the main point is not that Bakri does not call himself an Arab-Israeli, but that wiki no longer does)LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 03:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Bakri son

Resolved

Yes I agree Saleh Bakri is not that notable, but shouldn't there be section where we could put that he is the father of Saleh, blank and blank Bakri and he is married to blank. You know, some info on his family. --Al Ameer son (talk) 16:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That would be appropriate, of course. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 17:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Great, now I just have to find the name of his wife and if he has any other kids. On another note, does anyone know the month and date Bakri was born? I couldn't find it. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:55, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Ehhh, actually: absolutely not: according to Wikipedia:BLP#Privacy_of_personal_information we should not seek month and date of birth of less notable living persons: the year is good enough. Regards, Huldra (talk) 02:51, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Good point there; year it is. --Al Ameer son (talk) 06:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I was looking for material about his son, Saleh, when I saw the red link, but I didn't get much more than links to the 2007 movie and a link to some acting agent that represents him (Saleh). Input on the year he married to X and they had Y children together is certainly appropriate, of course. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 18:45, 17 May 2008 (UTC) more accurate. 18:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I found that he has a wife and six children at the bottom part of this source[1], but no names, except of course Saleh which was mentioned in a different source. Enough to add? --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't contest the information, but I don't really care for a link to 'Democracy Now!'. Let me think about it for a day; Maybe others will provide input also (or other sources) that will help me decide. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 12:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I think including the son's name is fine. It seems reasonably common to include spouses and children and is pertinent information when the child follows the father's footsteps. Notability is essential when the subject is the focus of an article but Saleh is not the focus in this article. Also, this for jaakobou, if you don't want a link to Democracy Now, a citation does not have to be included in the article for something as non-controversial as a son. According to WP:V, sources must be presented for "any material that is challenged or is likely to be challenged". That is probably not the case here. (Not that the Democracy Now article says anything that is not already included in the article.)--Regents Park (Feed my swans) 13:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking just that. i.e. to suggest we list it down without linking to Democracy Now. Al Ameer son, I trust there's no objection to this? Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 18:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be cited though? Would it be wrong for the ref note to say Bakri said this in an interview with Amy Goodman or something along those lines. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I can't say I like that suggestion. It Sounds a little like we're doubting Bakri himself by saying "Bakri said in an interview that he has 6 children"; phrasing sounds like he may have made an error that we want to correct later in the page by citing another interview or a mistress with conflicting accounts. Anyways, I'm willing to rethink this issue some more, give me a day; Maybe there will be other thoughts as well. You think we should open this for wider discussion maybe? Not sure I'm inerested in a big fuss. I'm thinking that (probably) no one will object a ref-less mention so eh... anyways, I'll think about it a bit more.

With respect, Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 22:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Certainly not worth a full-blown discussion, I just think everything should be cited, especially the part about Saleh following in his father's footsteps. This part wasn't even in the Democracy Now! ref, so I'll just add the ref for that which was the Internet Movie Database[2]. The wife and six children part will not be contested unless the article goes through a GA review. --Al Ameer son (talk) 23:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Not sure I follow the importance of "following in his father's footsteps" for Saleh on the M. Bakri article. I think we can add this into a personal-life section under "his son Saleh appeared in 2007 in a the Israeli film The Bands Visit which won several awards including the Israeli film Academy Awards.(imdb link)". Thoughts? Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 23:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Perfect. We'll go ahead and move the family info there too. --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Glad we worked it out nicely. Feel free to make the edit, I'm just a tad busy for "major" edits at the moment. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 08:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to add that at least three of mohammad Bakri's sons are actors: Saleh, Ziad, and Adam, and all of them already appear on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.182.20.105 (talk) 18:19, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

User:79.182.20.105: thanks, I have added it, Huldra (talk) 20:05, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Mohammad Bakri Defense Committee

I'm concerned about the extensive use of a personal defense website to make encyclopedic claims. I believe the use of this source should be ascribed to it's operators rather than presented as factually neutral. Thoughts/Suggestions? Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 16:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear that the view expressed (as it is presented here) is the opinion of the committee and not a statement of fact with which everyone would agree. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 19:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Currently the source is cited 4 times in the article and only once is it mentioned as the committee's notes. On top of this the citation is somewhat wrapped up in its agenda and is not at all encyclopedic. Considering this source is neither reliable not notable, I'm thinking it should be removed per wikipedia's guidelines for reliable sources. We can cite Barki's perspective from the mainstream press. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 22:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I would not agree to the removal of the source in a context in which the Committee for the Defense of Muhammad Bakri is being quoted regarding... the defense for Muhammad Bakri, on a page dealing explicitly with Muhammad Bakri himself, not other related issues. I can't imagine that there is any more direct source representing Bakri's views than the Bakri defense committee. I am sure that if they did not represent his views well, he would make a fuss in the press about how they don't represent him, and take the committee to court or something. I don't know about the three other references you point to, and will take a look, but if I remember correctly, they are just citing basic facts represented in the press, and the information can be easily located there if necessary.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 02:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that this is a blog and not a reliable source. We have nothing to prove that this "committee" is not a single person, perhaps Bakri's neighbor, who actually makes a few statements that Bakri does not agree with. An integral part of the encyclopedia is to use reliable sources and we don't have anything to prove that this 'committee' is not a 13 year old kid from Vancouver who only represents what he thinks would help Mr. Bakri's case. Mainstream publications are good though if they exist. I have no objection to encyclopedic citing of the material from the reliable sources but I see a few problems with the current article and this was clearly one of them.

With respect, Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 10:50, 27 August 2008 (UTC) clarify, 10:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 December 2021

On January 11 2021, the Lod district court in Israel banned the screening of Jenin Jenin. Jamalkanj (talk) 22:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:03, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

References