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Abd al-Malik ibn MarwanEdit

This is a *very* fine and lucidly written article. I always had in the back of my mind to do something about it, given Abd al-Malik's pivotal role in the consolidation of the Umayyad Caliphate and the creation of the institutions and forms of an "Islamic" state, but I honestly don't think I could have done such a good job. Well done, it reads like from a professional textbook! I'd say it is practically ready for FA right now, unless you want to add some more details here and there. Should you decide to nominate it, please let me know. Cheers, Constantine 18:55, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you Cplakidas. I always give your thoughts and considerations the highest weight. Since I started editing, it's been my intention to work on the article, but finally, your invaluable efforts with the Abbasid caliphs spurred me. I hope to nominate it for FA sooner than later, but was actually planning to get your thoughts because I used the structure of al-Mu'tasim's article as a model, with obvious adjustments. Do you think the proper place for his signature achievements, i.e. the Arabization of the bureaucracy, Islamic currency, the Dome of the Rock, systematic changes to the military, belong in a "Legacy" section as it stands now or should it be restructured or even renamed? The "Caliphate" section deals mostly with military history and the issues of accession and succession. My biggest dilemma was how to devote the proper focus on his aforementioned achievements without losing them in the text about his caliphate's military history, itself an epic achievement. Any advice is welcome. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:37, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I understand the dilemma. I also tend to follow a chronological approach to the political and military events (and the personal whereabouts and actions of the subject), but I strongly feel that the major traits or policies of a reign, if they can be covered to some level of detail, should be treated separately, to give them the context and focus they deserve. All the more so with a ruler of Abd al-Malik's importance. So for me the present structure works fine and is a good balance between a purely chronological and entirely thematical approach. Constantine 19:42, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: Agreed. Lastly, the section about the changes to the bureaucracy and currency needs more work, namely: harmonizing the different dates given for these changes by the various Arabic and Greek sources; perhaps a note that the bureaucrats remained largely the same, only the language was changed; and most importantly, a note about the impact that these changes had on the institutions of Islamic states for centuries after. The first two points I'll tackle as I have the sources, but if you have any information on the long-term impact, in particular, please add it or point me in the right direction ;) Cheers, --Al Ameer (talk) 20:20, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
One thing that might be interesting, in view of later developments, is to perhaps highlight the (unintended) consequences of his consolidation policies: the exclusionism against all groups apart from the Syrian Arabs, which led to the alienation of the Iraqis, Khurasanis, and the mawali; precisely the groups that would overthrow the Umayyads fifty years later. In parallel, the reduction of the caliphate's power base to the Syrian army also meant that when that army was weakened and dispersed to the various distant fronts, the Umayyad regime itself became untenable (the main thesis of Blankinship's book). Granted, this was not a failure of Abd al-Malik as much as that of his successors, but these were structural deficiencies that emerged, or became consolidated, during his reign. Constantine 08:52, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: Interesting insight. I’ll try to incorporate this into the legacy section. —Al Ameer (talk) 16:34, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

PS I think that using Abd al-Ameer 'Abd Dixon's The Umayyad caliphate, 65-86/684-705: a political study would also be a sine qua non for this article going on to FA. AFAIK, this remains the most detailed examination of the person and reign of Abd al-Malik to date; probably hard to find nowadays other than a university library, but it is based on his PhD dissertation. Constantine 11:27, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: I’ve been reading through it, still have quite a bit to go. It’s a fantastic source. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Using it for the article as it stands now will indeed fill in some blanks and offer a more comprehensive approach to the present material as he often mentions how different sources agree or diverge about each event or fact related to Abd al-Malik. The question is, being that he’s clearly a reliable and invaluable source and assumingly recognized by his peers, would using the thesis be OK by the FA standards? Otherwise, I’m currently not sure how to obtain this source and any help in this regard would be much appreciated. I intend on using it for many other articles related to this period in Islamic history as well. —Al Ameer (talk) 13:22, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
P.S. I made some changes to the Legacy section, per our earlier discussion. Please revise or add as you see fit. —Al Ameer (talk) 13:22, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
It is indeed a valuable source, and I remember seeing it often in articles on this period. PhD theses are generally accepted as reliable sources. In this case, AFAIK, the 1971 book is indeed simply a publication of his thesis (perhaps slightly edited), since in those days it was not so easy to get access to theses as it is today, where a pdf is always made available online. I'll have a look at the article over the weekend. During the Easter I will also have some time to look through by Byzantine sources, I have a few that might be useful to utilize here, IIRC there were some interesting developments concerning the end of the truce, Cyprus, and Abd al-Malik's building projects. Constantine 14:07, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: Good to know. I’ll start adding/revising accordingly in my user space. Looking forward to anything you can introduce from the Greek(?) sources. The article for the most part, I assume, relies on 8th–10th-century Arabic sources and would benefit from the Byzantine perspective, particularly in relation to the war and peace (and war again) with Byzantium and the issue of the coinage. Have a happy Easter. Cheers, —Al Ameer (talk) 20:51, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Just started the FAC. Since our last discussion, there have been quite a few additions and minor structural changes. Your input and advice would be appreciated, as always. —Al Ameer (talk) 14:17, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Don't forget to add {{Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan/archive1}} at the top of the nominations list at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates :). Constantine 15:59, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
@Cplakidas: Oops I thought I did already. Guess I didn't save the edit. Your advice has already come in handy ;) —Al Ameer (talk) 18:42, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Writer's Barnstar
Thanks for your excellent contributions to Caliphate-related articles. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:27, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks HistoryofIran ;) Means a lot from you. —Al Ameer (talk) 00:55, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Marwan IEdit

 On 14 April 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Marwan I, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marwan I. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Marwan I), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 00:17, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Abd Allah ibn al-ZubayrEdit

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ArbCom 2019 special circularEdit

 
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Administrator account security (Correction to Arbcom 2019 special circular)Edit

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Portal:Umayyad CaliphateEdit

Hi Al Ameer son! A few months ago I created Portal:Umayyad Caliphate, using some newly developed automatic tools. It was never meant to be a permanent state, but a first step towards evolving it into a proper portal with manually selected and curated content. Now it has been caught up in a wave of portal deletionism (because the author of these tools had the misguided notion of automatically creating hundreds of portals on anything) and is now proposed for deletion as well. I don't know if you are familiar with portals, but I intend to rework it during this weekend and try to save it. Would you be interested in helping out? Primarily we need content sets beyond what is in the navbox, i.e. a set of good articles for the main feature (we have that), of images (more tricky, Commons does not have too much in this area), and, IMO, also a number of other features that would give real purpose to the portal: TODO lists, links for external resources or research institutes, etc. Any suggestions? Constantine 06:10, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Don't know much about portals, so I have no suggestions other than what you've mentioned. I could help with articles. As far as images, we have many on the Umayyad Mosque, which hasn't fundamentally changed since al-Walid I's work. There are also the images of Hisham's Palace, Khirbat al-Minya, the desert castles and the ruins of old Ramla, founded by the Umayyads. I wonder if there are any old or free images of the ruins of Wasit? I keep delaying (because I need a better map) the FAC for Abd al-Malik, but I might just go ahead and do it today or this weekend. Al-Walid I and Yazid I are up for GAN, Sulayman will follow shortly and Marwan I is already a GA. Thanks to you, we have numerous GAs about the generals and governors of the Umayyads and I hope we can work more on the al-Hajjaj article to gain higher status. We have good articles about battles/wars involving the Umayyads and this continues to improve. Beyond the purely political subjects, I hope to eventually improve articles about the Umayyad-era poets and the aforementioned Umayyad architecture and the Dome of the Rock. I have access to a ton of sources but it'll probably violate copyright restrictions to link to them here; perhaps we could at least list them? What do you think? Also, I have a to-do list, where should I present it? --Al Ameer (talk) 15:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
I've long been maintianing Portal:Byzantine Empire, and the Umayyad portal should (ceteris paribus, of course) look something like it. In short, it should be a reference/entry point for anyone interested in the Umayyad Caliphate. This means we can easily include a "recommended literature" list or other material that does not normally fit into a regular encyclopedia article. In order to increase portal visibility, we should also add {{portal|Umayyad Caliphate}} to relevant articles and categories. Constantine 16:52, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
PS. ping me on Sulayman, and I would love to collaborate with you on Hajjaj. I had started rewriting the article long ago, but then other stuff intervened :/. Constantine 16:53, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I've decided to drop the matter here; there is a deletionist wave for this kind of content right now, and lacking much material for creating a credible portal that can stand on its own as a topic summary, I fear I would at best delay the deletion process. Instead, I will focus again on content. Concerning that, I have two questions: First, how do you feel about teaming up and overhauling Umayyad Caliphate? Its present state is not bad, but it certainly can and should be improved. Between us I think we have the knowledge and skills to tackle most of the non-theological content. Second, I've finally decided to move Sayf al-Dawla forward for ACR and FAC. I have so far held off precisely because this article is dear to me, Sayf al-Dawla was a figure of fascination since I first read about him as a young boy (seen as the great antagonist of the Byzantines, of course), and I want to do the article really well. I can definitely put in more detail into some sections, which is why I have held off so far, but I feel that the current level of detail is more than enough, and where more detailed narrative exists it should be split off in its own articles (e.g. Battle of Andrassos). I'd like not only your opinion on its quality, but also whether there is anything from Zakkar or other sources you might now that could be missing. I will have to revisit my sources prior to a nomination, so no big hurry for now. Ditto for Mufarrij ibn Daghfal ibn al-Jarrah, for that matter, whom I also want to push for ACR at least. Cheers, Constantine 20:10, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: I was staying in tune with the portal back-and-forth; I liked the proposal about an early caliphate/Islamic world portal, assuming a time-frame could be defined, but this could be put off for now. I look forward to collaboration on the Umayyad Caliphate. Having read through it, I’d say it’s best to start from scratch in a sandbox; after the work there is finished, we can integrate any valuable material that’s already in the article. What do you think? I’ll compile some sources over the weekend. As for Sayf al-Dawla, it’s an excellent article and I respect your dedication to its quality. Not sure if Zakkar could offer much, as his work was a study of the post-Hamdanid Aleppo emirate, but I’ll look into it. Same for Muffarij. Like Dixon, his thesis is very much the same as his book, but less clean and with more detail about the primary sources. —Al Ameer (talk) 00:14, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Al-Muhallab ibn Abi SufraEdit

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DYK nomination of Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-KhushaniEdit

  Hello! Your submission of Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-Khushani at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! –MJLTalk 02:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Your nomination will be all set once you indicate you reviewed another article per QPQ. Ping me once that's done, and I'll give you the blue checkmark! :D –MJLTalk 04:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Al-Muhallab ibn Abi SufraEdit

The article Al-Muhallab ibn Abi Sufra you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold  . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Al-Muhallab ibn Abi Sufra for issues which need to be addressed. Constantine 07:37, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Al-Muhallab ibn Abi SufraEdit

The article Al-Muhallab ibn Abi Sufra you nominated as a good article has passed  ; see Talk:Al-Muhallab ibn Abi Sufra for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Cplakidas -- Cplakidas (talk) 19:41, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

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DYK nomination for Al-Muhallab ibn Abi SufraEdit

I just wanted to make sure you saw the minor issues I saw in your DYK nomination Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Muhallab ibn Abi Sufra. QuakerSquirrel (talk) 10:36, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Battle of MaskinEdit

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Battle of Maskin you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria.   This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of AhmadLX -- AhmadLX (talk) 15:41, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Battle of MaskinEdit

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DYK for Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-KhushaniEdit

 On 24 June 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-Khushani, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Caliph Abd al-Malik's scribe Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-Khushani changed the language of Syria's bureaucracy from Greek to Arabic? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-Khushani. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Sulayman ibn Sa'd al-Khushani), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

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