Talk:Mohamed Sherif

Requested move 1 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved as proposed. There is clear consensus that the 1993 player is not PTOPIC, and indeed that move has already been made (out of process, but it actually helps us in the long run as now the incoming links have already been sorted). There were some suggestions that we should have a disambig page with no PTOPIC, but the argument for this doesn't seem to have been backed up by convincing arguments. The evidence presented in the nom regarding page views, coverage in sources and the level of football at which they respectively play, seems to indicate conclusively that the 1996 footballer is the primary topic.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:12, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

---

• Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1996) → Mohamed Sherif
• Mohamed Sherif → Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1993)

– We have two football players from Egypt called Mohamed Sherif:

• One born in 1993 and currently plays in a second-tier club in the Egyptian Second Division
• Another one born in 1996 and plays for Al Ahly in the Egyptian Premier League

The latter has gained huge notoriety and popularity during the last few years, for representing the Egypt national football team in the 2021 FIFA Arab Cup and the 2021 Africa Cup of Nations, and for winning multiple competitions and earning more than one top goalscorer award with Al Ahly, including the domestic league and the CAF Champions League, and also for winning the bronze medal with the club at the 2020 FIFA Club World Cup, while the first one is now playing in the second-tier league in Egypt and has far less notoriety and popularity than the one born in 1996. As a result, and per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, I strongly suggest that Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1996) should be moved to Mohamed Sherif, while the current content located at Mohamed Sherif should be moved to Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1993). Ben5218 (talk) 16:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. -- Aervanath (talk) 15:10, 12 January 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 05:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support both moves per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, the Al Ahly star is definately more famous, also worldwide. At minimum, have both with disambiguators. --SuperJew (talk) 22:02, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 22:14, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose as suggested, and instead move Mohamed Sherif → Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1993), keep Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1996) there, and turn Mohamed Sherif into a disambig page. GiantSnowman 22:15, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: Would you mind telling me why though? The one born in 1996 is significantly more known and popular than the one born in 1993 now. I can barely find any relevant articles about the latter, unlike the other one, and that's why I don't think a dab page is needed and believe that the move I proposed is the best option. Ben5218 (talk) 22:41, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Support alternative.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:48, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support alternative per GiantSnowman. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support as proposed, as there appears to be a primary topic both in terms of relative notability as well as a huge and overwhelming discrepancy in page views (this one gets tens and sometimes hundreds as many views as the other) While I see there are three !votes favoring an alternative, I have seen zero explanation as to why we would ignore the clear primary topic and would love some sort of answer there. I want to be as charitable as possible here, but not a single one of the oppose !voters has presented any rationale, at all, let alone a convincing one!--Yaksar (let's chat) 20:57, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support as proposed; the OP and Yaksar have reasonably demonstrated the primary topic, unlike the proponents of the alternative proposal. WP:ONEOTHER also favors the proposed setup, since there are no other notable Mohamed Sherifs. No such user (talk) 11:10, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
• Strong support 2nd, neutral on 1st. The 1996 one gets 3,267 views compared with only 100 for this one but PT swaps can cause problems but less so when there are just 2 uses. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:11, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• There is no guideline or policy that discourages primary swaps, particularly when there is such an overwhelming primary topic. At worst, Google results seem to resolve themselves pretty quickly, even when it's with pages with a massive readership and distinction (and in this case it's not like anyone is really visiting the current primary).--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:49, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose: I oppose the inclusion of "born 1996". articles' title "SHOULD NEVER" contain the birth year. just the "footballer" and that too in brackets, is enough to distinguish. Utkarsh555 (talk) 09:32, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
  • @Utkarsh555: Please see WP:NCPDAB (specifically the second-to-last paragraph in that section); using birth years in titles is perfectly acceptable when no other precise disambiguators apply to the subject. Please stop moving this page while the discussion is open: [1] [2]. Steel1943 (talk) 14:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support Obvious and overwhelming primary topic per views [3]. The "born" strong oppose voter is completely wrong as demonstrated by Steel1943, Yaksar demonstrated that PT swaps are totally fine, and the alternative proposer didn't even explain his proposal in his initial comment, nor when asked to through a ping. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 20:03, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. I found this discussion because DAB page Mohamed Sherif had 3 ambiguous incoming links. They turned out to be for:

Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1985) - 1 (no article, but he plays in the Egyptian Second Division and so passes WP:NFOOTY)

Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1993) - 1

Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1996) - 1

Pageviews are a poor guide at the best of times, and a very poor guide indeed if editors are likely to be referring to any of three little-known people with the identical name. Narky Blert (alt) (talk) 12:11, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

I've added the 1985 one to the DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:15, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

There isn't any question that other subjects exist -- but that alone is obviously not a reason for no primary topic. Unfortunately you've provided no argument to rebut here. In page views, there is an overwhelmingly clear primary topic among these subjects. In regular usage across reliable sources there appears to be an overwhelmingly clear primary topic among these subjects. In incoming link, relative notability, and all the metrics we use to judge a primary topic the subject in question appears to be the overwhelmingly clear primary topic. Making the claim that page views do not matter at all, even when they are so obviously and overwhelmingly clear on the answer here, is both contrary to our policy and silly, but even if we decide to dismiss them there still is a primary topic under our standards. Can you provide any sort of backing to your claims here?--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:56, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Yaksar: I already did. Two of the three links-in, to a monitored DAB page, were bad. PTOPICs invariably collect bad links (which degrade the encyclopedia) if there is any possibility of their doing so, and this is evidence that Mohamed Sherif would be no exception - made worse by the fact that all three people with that name are footballers. Narky Blert (alt) (talk) 13:05, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I see the reason for confusion here. Mid-discussion, it looks like the dab page was created -- this was improper, and should have waited until the conclusion of this discussion. But the reason why there are misdirected links is because the 1993 Mohamed Sherif that is clearly not the primary topic was at the base name. As for the latter part of your argument, this is not policy-based -- the fact that they are all footballers would be relevant if there wasn't a clear primary topic by our standards, but since there is, and overwhelmingly so, the fact that they have the same career doesn't override it.--Yaksar (let's chat) 16:09, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

• Since we're now entering a month and a half of this, with a number of !votes, I just want to check again with the hopes of some sort of answer -- we seem to have a clear primary topic under our guidelines for determining one, but a few votes instead opposing that move. Is there any argument someone can make -- other than just "there are other subjects with this name," which is obviously not how we determine a primary topic -- that we can look at? I hate to sound like a jerk here, but without even a weak policy-based argument in opposition, and extensive policy-based arguments in favor, there really isn't much to look at right now.--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:49, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1994)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1994) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 23 § Mohamed Sherif (footballer, born 1994) until a consensus is reached. Ben5218 (talk) 18:24, 23 June 2023 (UTC)