Talk:Martha Argerich

Husbands?

Former entry Robert Chen points to a Taiwanese-born musician (Chén Mùróng), who is not the same person as the Shanghai-born Chinese-Swiss conductor Liang-Sheng Chen (born 1933), as is cited in the source provided. Changes were made following cross-referencing. 90.244.201.211 (talk) 23:26, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this definitely needs to be fixed: I would suggest simply removing the wiki link as there is no English entry for Liang-Sheng Chen yet unfortunately. E-Ping Rau (talk) 10:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done Link removed. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Can anyone cite a source for Argerich and her husbands or marriages? I have heard that she wasn't married to Dutoit but did live with him. (I have no evidence one way or the other.) Lpgeffen

I don't think information about her marriages belongs in the section titled "Professional career." Jbergerot 18:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Have you doublechecked the husbands-info (not that I think that part is important when it comes to a person's music making, but I'm asking just for accuracy's sake). My understanding from friends has long been that she was married to Chen and to Dutoit, but not to Kovacevich (or Bishop as he was known then). Maybe they changed that later without telling many or are counting common-law status - Atraveler 23:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

References

Jewish?

Is Argerich really Jewish? The information has been added by an anonimous user. --Missmarple 13:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I actually dubt it. Her lastmame sounds Slavic (Argerić, or Arherić), probably Croatian. But that's just espectulation. Mariano(t/c) 08:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I've read her say she was of jewish origin once - I think it was in the bbc music magazine. But I can't find anything at all in google now either? Avaya1 17:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Then it is actually not true, or in the worse case simply not a notable fact. Mariano(t/c) 10:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Then her name is pronounced like a Polish or Russian Argerich (Argerič) and not a German Argerich? —  $PЯINGrαgђ  18:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

She has called herself Jewish on several occasions, signing a protest once as "Martha Argerich, Jewish pianist". Her father, by all accounts, was not. Her mother's maiden name was Heller, which is typically Ashkenazi Jewish. I don't think there is any question that her matrilineal ancestry was Jewish and, in the Jewish faith, that makes one Jewish. 141.211.31.183 (talk) 02:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC) Grazzidad

There is no question whatsoever that the surname Argerich is a Spanish surname from Catalonia, and an old and well-known one in Argentina, as in Cosme Argerich. As for the surname Heller, it is the most common sort of German surname.

Yes she is Jewish. See her Facebook page. She wrote there that she is Jewish.5.202.128.47 (talk) 05:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

What's the link to her facebook page? And how do we know it's really here, and not a fan?THD3 (talk) 12:28, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Argerich (Eastern Catalan: [ərʒəˈɾik], Western Catalan: [aɾdʒeˈɾik, aɾʒeˈɾik]; modern spelling Argeric) is a noble Catalan surname from Germanic origin, also common in Argentina: <refTrevirano (talk) 06:51, 21 May 2014 (UTC)> Argerich - Wikipedia</ref>

Nobody mentions her indigenous South American heritage here??? The documentary made by her daughter attests to her "mix of European and indigenous races". Let's quite being Euro-centric here please!

References

Chopin Etude in C Major, Op. 10 No. 1

Ever since reading this article, I still haven't fully understood:

1. why (or in what ways) Martha Argerich's playing of the first etude (Op. 10 No. 1) was characterized as "daring"; and
2. why another pianist (I think it was Rubenstein) was said to have refused to play this etude on the concert stage.

Any explanations or clarifications for these? --- Tito Pao 21:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Rubinstein found etude 1 op 10 impossible to play. That is why he didnt play it on stage

Argerich

The last name Argerich is of catalan origin.

Navaniglia 16:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Needs a more recent photo if possible. Xiecfox 17:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the origin of the Argerich name is uncertain. In her interview to Dean Elder (in his book "Pianists at Play"), Martha Argerich says that she herself is not sure whether the name is Catalonian or Croatian. MUSIKVEREIN, 14:45, 17 August, 2007

There are now 250 Argerich living in Catalonia, Spain. 45 Argerich went to Argentina from Spain in the 19th and 20th centuries.

http://www.ine.es/fapel/FAPEL.INICIO and http://www.cemla.com/busqueda.html# —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.152.134.209 (talk) 20:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a page who talks about Argerich family in Argentina. Francisco de Argerich, born in (Asteró, Urgel, Catalonia, Spain) married in Buenos Aires in 1757 with Maria Josefa del Castillo. Here starts a family of Argerich living in Argentina.

http://www.genealogiadelujan.com.ar/GENEALOGIAS/wc09/wc09_253.html

There is no question whatsoever that the surname Argerich is a Spanish surname from Catalonia, and an old and well-known one in Argentina, as in Cosme Argerich.

Spaniards always say everyone is from some part of Spain or of Spanish ancestry. Very active in giving unsourced, unverifiable claims are catalonians, who specially seem to enjoy claiming Catalan ancestries, from Walt Disney to Argerich. Whatever... --Karljoos (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

@Karljoos. Argerich's surname is also typically Spanish and verified than Garcia, although much less common (Distribution of the name "Argerich" in Spain http://www.miparentela.com/mapas/detalles/argerich.html). People like you ignore this, and can make innocently a stupid comparison with Disney, which surname, of course, was not Spanish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.226.56.127 (talk) 15:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but you can't fool me. I can speak enough Spanish to understand that Argerich is the 11362nd most common surname in Spain. Only 260 Spaniards have Argerich as surname. Based on info provided on the same website you mentioned, there're in Spain 1.381 Wilsons and it's the 3076th most common surname in Spain... someone using your same logic could say that Wilson is a Spanish surname. The origin of Argerich's surname is irrelevant here. It's relevant for an article about the surname "Argerich". --Karljoos (talk) 19:09, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Your reference to Wilson is strange. Everyone knows that Wilson is a surname of British origin. Who ignores has only to compare the number of Wilsons in Spain and Britain to realize that the cradle of Wilsons is in Britain. The same for the surname Garcia, shared by 31.015 people in Great Britain (1,349,883 in Spain). The same for Argerich. Argerich's name is Catalan, as the ancestor who gave his name so rare and barbarous to argentinian ears accustomed to Castilian, so it sounds Germanic or Slavic. But it does not exist in Germany, it does not exist in Croatia, see the white pages of Germany or Croatia to be convinced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.226.56.127 (talk) 00:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm just using your logic and your reference (the website you gave as reference of Argerich being a Catalonian/Spanish surname). And please, sign your comments.--Karljoos (talk) 04:45, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Argerich's surname is from Catalonia. Roughly similar to March, Linch, Domenech, Llach, Puch, Drach (all catalan surnames)--Trevirano (talk) 01:47, 22 May 2014 (UTC).

There is always a Catalan claiming that a celebrity is of Catalan origin. I have heard these claims about Walt Disney, Columbus... The reality is that there are no serious sources tracking back Martha Argerich back to Catalonia. There has been unsorpported edits in this respect that have not been removed yet.I know that in Spain there are some issues between catalans and the rest of the spaniards, but please don't bring your home fights to WP.Karljoos (talk) 18:39, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Freire

As it stands, the article says "Argerich has married three times. [Husbands and children listed.] One of Argerich's closest friends is the Brazilian pianist Nelson Freire, with whom she frequently appears in duo-piano recitals."

If this appeared in a British newspaper, an educated reader would surmise that he was intended to infer a relationship of a close kind between Argerich and Freire. Is that the intention? If it is, can the assertion be sourced? If not, can the Feire sentence be disconnected from the paragraph about husbands and offspring? David Colver 19:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

No, that wasn't the intention. For the avoidance of doubt, I moved the sentence to a separate paragraph. MUSIKVEREIN 18:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

New Link

I thought that it was important that a link be added to provide users with an actual video of Argerich playing. It features Liszt's first piano concerto, in E-flat. ~~MusicalConnoisseur~~ Got Classical? 21:36, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, well, the video has been removed, anyway. Does anyone else have good-quality videos of Ms. Argerich? ~~MusicalConnoisseur~~ Got Classical? 21:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Performance prohibition?

It's my understanding Martha Argerich is or was prohibited from performing in the United States due to her having performed in a nation or nations of which the United States federal government either did not approve or presently does not approve. I further recall her Wikipedia article once contained details of this performance prohibition. No such information appears here now.

In the event, is (or was) there a prohibition on Argerich performing in the United States? If so doesn't the absence of a paragraph describing that situation fly in the face of accuracy, fairness and thoroughness? I am not conversant with the whys and wherefores of such policy decisions as emanate from within the Beltway, else I'd submit a paragraph myself (assuming my recollections are valid).

Thank you for either confirming or disproving the artistic-censorship scenario to which I've alluded.

MisterCat (talk) 03:52, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

There is absolutely no evidence for your assertion.THD3 (talk) 09:24, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Martha Argerich. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091114090627/http://www.concorsobusoni.it/en-94-1984.aspx to http://www.concorsobusoni.it/en-94-1984.aspx
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100408052855/http://home.swipnet.se/bjorn_ostlund/argerich_repertoire.htm to http://home.swipnet.se/bjorn_ostlund/argerich_repertoire.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:10, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Martha Argerich. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://archive.is/20130801143652/http://www.lavozylaopinion.com.ar/cgi-bin/medios/vernota.cgi?medio=lavoz&numero=Mayo2012&nota=Mayo2012-3 to http://www.lavozylaopinion.com.ar/cgi-bin/medios/vernota.cgi?medio=lavoz&numero=Mayo2012&nota=Mayo2012-3
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130707105707/http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/about/competition to http://konkurs.chopin.pl/en/about/competition
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151104084319/http://www4.rsi.ch/trasm/argerich/welcome.cfm to http://www4.rsi.ch/trasm/argerich/welcome.cfm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080430051325/http://www.argerich-mf.jp/english.html to http://www.argerich-mf.jp/english.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050305073845/http://www.rtsi.ch/trasm/argerich/welcome.cfm?lng=1 to http://www.rtsi.ch/trasm/argerich/welcome.cfm?lng=1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:36, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Martha Argerich. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140521032131/http://herbergerinstitute.asu.edu/pianocompetition/2013/jury.php to http://herbergerinstitute.asu.edu/pianocompetition/2013/jury.php
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006174602/http://www.rsi.ch/argerich/welcome.cfm?lng=1&ids=491&idc=989 to http://www.rsi.ch/argerich/welcome.cfm?lng=1&ids=491&idc=989
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101230134018/http://www.rsi.ch/argerich/welcome.cfm?lng=1&ids=491&idc=1000 to http://www.rsi.ch/argerich/welcome.cfm?lng=1&ids=491&idc=1000
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924112529/http://www.swissinfo.ch/directdemocracy/48th-solothurn-film-festival_examining-a-martha-daughter-relationship/34795316 to http://www.swissinfo.ch/directdemocracy/48th-solothurn-film-festival_examining-a-martha-daughter-relationship/34795316

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:30, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's due to the URL tool, but it seems that nearly all references have an error in the code that makes none of them show up. I have no idea how to fix it. Pacamah (talk) 13:08, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Never mind, seems to be either a site-wide problem or something going on with my computer. Whoops lol Pacamah (talk) 13:13, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Replacement for dead link?

Hi, I just flagged a dead link to "Excerpts from a Rare Interview with Argerich". There is a version behind a scribd paywall at

https://www.scribd.com/document/80789519/Argerich-Interview-With-Dean-Elder

I don't know how to handle this, maybe someone else can pick up the ball? Thanks. ---NoApostropheInIts (talk) 21:35, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

"One notable compilation pairs.."

What is this in reference to? It seems randomly placed. Glissando1234567890 (talk) 18:54, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

It seems to be a reference to this album: [1]. I don't see what's special about that album or why it's worth singling out here. It's also a non-sequitur, having nothing to do with the text that comes before it. I'd say delete it. TJRC (talk) 21:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Citizenship

Someone removed my correction to the introduction. Argerich holds dual Argentine and Swiss citizenship and accordingly I described her as "Argentine/Swiss".

It is well known that Argerich holds Swiss citizenship and there are references on several websites (e.g. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/culture/48th-solothurn-film-festival_examining-a-martha-daughter-relationship/34795316 ) including a website that is maintained by an agency of the Swiss government which states that she holds a Swiss passport: https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/japan/en/home/news/news.html/content/countries/japan/en/meta/news/2019/6/argerich_ito I don't have a printed source but Wikipedia does not in general require a printed source for every person's citizenship. I have restored the description of her citizenship as "Argentine/Swiss". Longitude2 (talk) 08:27, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

i removed the dual citizenship because it's misleading about argerich nationality, she wasn't raised in switzerland nor learned to play the piano there, she's by all accounts an argentine musician and should be addressed as such, her dual citizenship could be referred somewhere else — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Nationality of a person means "the status of belonging to a particular nation, whether by birth or naturalization." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/naturalization . Argerich is Swiss by choice. Acquiring Swiss citizenship is not a simple or automatic process, by the way. Longitude2 (talk) 08:14, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

having dual nationality isn't the same as being swiss, she's an argentinian pianist with a swiss nationality not an argentinian/swiss pianist — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 10:14, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia's Manual of Style, your statement is not correct. MisterCSharp (talk) 12:48, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

You seem to be conflating nationality and ethnicity. Open paragraph refers to nationality. Ethnicity is placed within the article.MisterCSharp (talk) 12:14, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

it should be the other way around, referring her as a argentine/swiss pianist is misleading,you can refer to her "nationality"status somewhere else in the article, not the first paragraph — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 02:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's Manual of Style before you make blanket statements of how a page "should" be written.MisterCSharp (talk) 12:50, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Tons of wikipedia pages don't refer the double nationality, which is by any means just a little detail, in the first paragraph, i don't see why be should enforce that flimsy and obnoxious "style" here, even the spanish version don't refers to her as argentine/swiss — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 21:40, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

i changed the nationality again even after all the intents of vandalizing this so calle "editor" is trying to attempt at the page, we should strive for a style that ensure clear information and avoid the kind of data that can misguide the reader, argerich is by all means an argentine pianist and should be referred as such, her later acquisition of swiss nationality should be addressed later in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 11:01, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

changed it once again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 05:43, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

changed it again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 07:39, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

changed it again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.127.69.36 (talk) 22:55, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

This really is a petty point, but I think her citizenship should be written as Argentine-Swiss, not Argerntine/Swiss. She has citizenship of both nations - it is not one or the other as the slash implies. Glissando1234567890 (talk) 12:04, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Hyphen is more appropriate here. I have made the change.MisterCSharp (talk) 16:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Discography

The discography section consists of one disc. Until it is expanded, there is no point in leaving it there. Glissando1234567890 (talk) 12:07, 26 August 2020 (UTC)