Talk:Marie Corelli

Categorization as Lesbian? (Please Read Before Editing)

In the name of not changing people's sexuality, should she be still considered a lesbian given that there seems to be better documentation against her being one than for it? Being long-term housemates with somebody of the same gender who isn't related is not very good evidence, really; some people don't happen to see any good reason to find new ones if there's no need for such. 71.76.225.98 (talk) 05:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

And Oscar Wilde was married to a woman. Wikipedia aims for a neutral stance. In this case, I find the article slanted in that it downplays her lesbianism (with quite poor logic I should add). Still, we should stage the debate, using reliable academic sources for both sides. --Junius49 (talk) 23:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Upon further research, I've removed the following: "Late in life Corelli became an active opponent of homosexuality, being closely associated with the campaigns against it by Noel Pemberton Billing." The citation here is:

Philip Hoare, Oscar Wilde's Last Stand: Decadence, Conspiracy, and the Most Outrageous Trial of the Century, (New York: Arcade Pub., 1998), ISBN 1559704233, p. 57; Medd, Jodie "The Cult of the Clitoris": Anatomy of a National Scandal, Modernism/modernity, Volume 9, Number 1, January 2002, pp. 21-49

The latter only footnotes Corelli's correspondence with Billing, with no discussion of her own motives or sexuality. And, in the former, Hoare adds in fact that Corelli was "probably a lesbian" and that her mention of the "47,000" German/gay conspirators was a personal attack against Wilde, who had slighted her. (page 90) In other words, no evidence here that she became "active" in campaigns against homosexuality.--Junius49 (talk) 00:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Concluded: To prevent editing wars, please keep the discussion of Corelli's sexuality and her relationship with Bertha Vyver neutral. Please see WP:NPOV. This means not including partisan language, such as "gay activists," or arguing that she was or was not a lesbian. Scholars generally share the following consensus, which I've tried to refer to through new references in the article: 1) Corelli did not self identify as a lesbian, but this does not preclude a romantic relationship with Vyver; 2) the two women shared a deep love for one another, which did lead contemporaries (both friends and journalists) to allude to them as closer than friends or sisters; 3) Corelli's novels often focus at length on eroticized female beauty.--Junius49 (talk) 21:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Neutral?? It is you that removed the reference to Arthur Severn. This affair directly acts against her being a lesbian. Evidence for this are the exchange of letters that are kept in archives and were uncovered by Brian Masters. (ref: Brian Masters: Now Barabbas Was a Rotter, 1978, see chapter 13: Beloved Pendragon). In my collection I have a copy of 'The Devils Motor' (1910), leatherbound and limited edition of only 100 numbered copies that is both signed by Corelli (text) and Severn (illustrations). The actual painting 'The Devil's Motor' was bought by Corelli, which received a place in the living-room of her mansion, till finally in 1942 it got sold at auction with the rest of her estate. You removed also the notice that Vyvers was an adopted sister, this is well documented. In addition it was not unusual that those females that did not marry in the Victorian era, lived as she did. It does not make you a lesbian. Corelli was a romantic type and rather sentimental, and even if she tales descriptions of beauty in her novels, it certainly does not denote her being a lesbian. She also described Prince Lucio in 'Sorrows of Satan' in such a way, and he was no female even. I read most of her novels, and the proposed association not ever occurred to me. The whole idea of her being a lesbian is pushed forward by fixated members of the lesbian community that want Corelli to be one of their own. One of them being Teresa Ransom that published the latest Marie Corelli biography (1999) (i.e. if you can call it a biography), the intent is clear.

Thank you kindly for disrupting the article. Because of this nature of Wikipedia, I boycotted editing here a long time ago.--Olberon (talk) 10:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I do feel the article is more in line with WP:NPOV than before. The main problem was that the article took a firm stance on Corelli's sexuality rather than mapping out the scholarly discussion surrounding her relationship with Vyver. The article should neither state that Corelli was a lesbian (an anachronistic claim unsubstantiated by evidence) nor should it argue that she was straight (also unsubstantiated). I removed the Arthur Severn and adopted-sister references because they were there strictly to make a misleading claim. Most scholars note that her close relationship with Severn was platonic; and a life-long friendship does not disprove a romantic relationship, plus Vyver's role in the Corelli household remains unclear. I should also add that dismissing productive scholarship as a "lesbian-driven agenda" is a red-flag for WP:NPOV -- and it's offensive to gay and straight readers alike. I will however try to reincorporate her relationship to Severn b/c it is important. --Junius49 (talk) 16:06, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Miss Corelli has and still is been used by members of the lesbian community to service their own propaganda. For this reason alone it is relevant to make notice of the situation that we are facing here. For this reason I don't agree with your stance you describe here above. Both the Arthur Severn and the 'adopted sister' are fully valid and documented issues. Removing them is no other than an attempt to disrupt the article. Things tend to become rather clear while having gone over history as many times as I have. There exist 9 biographies written about Corelli, ranging from 1901 till 1999. Even Miss Vyver wrote one in 1930, this should give you some answers. Interesting is also the notice from George Bullock when he went to visit Miss Vyver prior to publishing his own biography in 1940. The role of Miss vyver is not unclear, it is just a matter of finding the reference sources.--Olberon (talk) 23:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, added Severn back.--Junius49 (talk) 16:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you kindly. At least it is a bit better now.--Olberon (talk) 23:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Just to clarify (because the posts were re-ordered) - I wasn't saying ok to your repetitive homophobic "conspiratorial lesbian" claim. Just "ok" I finished writing the Severn paragraph. --Junius49 (talk) 03:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me? "homophobic "conspiratorial lesbian" claim", are you kiding me? Do some research, for one an Internet search. Locate p.e. the site of one Jessica Amanda Salmonson. Examine the biography written by one Teresa Ransom. You'll just be scraping on the surface still. You also still ignore the 'adopted sister' angle, You just deleted that out of the article. I caught you making a very serious error editing (i.e. destructing) the article as you did. And here you are defending this somehow. Propaganda is about 'having to be right' even if wronged. You are supposed to adhere to recorded fact, but you get easily swayed. You follow the interpretations of some individuals, who themselves rather often appear lesbian.--Olberon (talk) 09:00, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Notability/Legacy

I've deleted the following random references. I tried to incorporate them into the new "legacy" section, but I found them trite. Still, I'm open to a discussion of their inclusion. --Junius49 (talk) 15:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

• "A poem by the comedian Billy Bennett, entitled "The Postman", briefly references Corelli."

• "Benet's Reader's Encyclopedia (1948) described Corelli as a "pretty little blonde woman who wrote torrentially and died of her 28th novel in her 70th year.""

I've also removed this entry without prejudice: "In 2006 Gillian Hiscott's adaptation of Vendetta was performed at British Theatre festivals including the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. She has also adapted The Young Diana, which also uses text sources from novels by Dame Barbara Cartland." Should Hiscott's plays become notable we can add this section back.--Junius49 (talk) 16:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Article Gillian Hiscott is now up and notability open to discussion on the COI talk page should anyone wish to contribute (Gillhiscott (talk) 14:39, 13 July 2009 (UTC))

Also, I removed the following: "Indian actor-director Kamal Haasan has announced and is currently into the production of a Tamil movie named Marmayogi, inspired by Vendetta." From what I understand, it's not clear yet that the film is based on Vendetta (see Unversal Hero's sandbox page on Marmayogi. Most importantly, however, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Once the film comes out in 2010, we can reassess.--Junius49 (talk) 20:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

References

Inserted reflist, so it doesn't float down the page.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:26, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Captainess Corelli's gondola

Captainess Corelli's gondola saved, restored and floats again on the Avon:

http://www.veniceboats.com/gondola-corelli-stratford.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.82.35.238 (talk) 19:53, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Querying birthplace

The article says that she was born in London, but no reference is cited for this. According to Who's Who in Lesbian and Gay Writing she was "Born Mary (or Minnie) Mackay in Perth, Scotland". --rossb (talk) 14:36, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Parody

Someone wrote a parody of a typical Corelli sentence: "I feel there is a something somewhere, if only we could put our finger on it." If anyone can reference this, it might provide a clue to her writing style. Valetude (talk) 21:18, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Proposed merger

I added a proposed merger tag because I am not finding enough material about Bertha Vyver to establish WP:GNG / WP:Notability (people). The only key accomplishment that I can find is that she wrong a memoir about Corelli. And, a lot of the content in that article is already in this article, so it won't take too much to merge the two articles.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:24, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Comment I'm not !voting one way or another for a merge, but I believe there is sufficient information on Vyver for her own story to be told. While her life was clearly intertwined with Corelli's her story is unique from the author's in certain aspects, which are clearly not duplicated in the author's biography. SusunW (talk) 00:21, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

You've done a lot to expand it and it's definitely meatier than when I nominated it. How about if we leave this a couple more days and see what comes in. So far, it's pretty quiet.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:33, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I've thought more about this... other than you, it's quiet here, you did great work, I will remove the tags. If there is a strong objection, we can deal with it later.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:39, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

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Harvard House

• see Harvard House

EEng 19:34, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Hoarding

Why is there no mention of her conviction for food hoarding in World War I?213.205.242.88 (talk) 15:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Bestselling/most widely read

Re ‘Citation needed’ request by Colin M (17/10/21) about the claim in the new lede which I had recently supplied, that she was ‘the bestselling fiction-writer in England’.

I sourced this from the 'Career' section of the article, where it said ‘In her time, she was the most widely read author of fiction’. This was uncited, so I agree we need a cite, giving precise terms and dates. Also it is possible that ‘bestselling’ and ‘most widely read’ could mean two different things, bearing in mind her popularity in public libraries. Valetude (talk) 12:00, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Publication Date of Jane (1900).

Her book "Jane" is listed as being published in 1900, but I have a copy published by Hutchinson & Co dated MDCCCXCVII (1897). -- [[user:Matt.whitby]] (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2023 (UTC)