Talk:Marcus Klingberg

Finished medical studies?

According to obits he was susceptible to Soviet blackmail as he never finished his medical studies. Should article be changed to reflect this?Mwinog2777 (talk) 04:17, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

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Unsourced text

I cannot find sources to support this: "At the time of his arrest, Klingberg was series editor of Contributions to Epidemiology and Biostatistics and co-chief editor of Public Health Reviews." Have removed text for the moment. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 06:08, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Marcus Klingberg/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Z1720 (talk · contribs) 02:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Starting review. Comments will come momentarily. Z1720 (talk) 02:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments on prose:

• The lede is quite long. I would trim it down, and possibly remove the quotes from the lede. Done
• Birthday should be added to "Early life" and cited  Done
• "In 1981, he co-founded the International Federation of Teratology Societies and in 1982 he was elected to the council of the International Epidemiological Association." needs a citation  Partly done source for IEA found, have dropped text on the other society, cannot find a source (this was from before I started working on the article). --Goldsztajn (talk) 05:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
• "Former Shin Bet director, Yaakov Peri, acted as a character witness." This should be placed before information about Klingberg's release  Done
• "On 18 January 2003, Klingberg was released from house arrest. He immediately left for Paris to live with his daughter Sylvia and grandson Ian." Needs a citation  Done
• "He continued to take an interest in events in Israel, and read Hebrew newspapers." Needs a citation  Partly done removed sentence, cannot find a source (this text from before I started working on the article). --Goldsztajn (talk) 11:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
• "He was cremated, and his ashes were interred in Père Lachaise Cemetery."  Done
• Place the Personal life section before "Release and later life" as this information happens before chronologically. Other option is to intersperse this within the article when these events happened. Done moved section up to appear before "Release" section
• The "Family" section has too much information about the children. If information about them is important, they would have their own articles. Otherwise, only a brief mention is appropriate.  Partly done Have shortened a little. The grandson has their own page and the article text on him is only a single sentence. Klingberg's daughter and wife are possibly notable in their own right, but there's a reasonable argument that WP:NOPAGE can be applied to them and the information is relevant to Klingberg especially in terms of their political alignments. Overall, this section is less than 8% of words in the body text.

• How does Sylvia's marriage and divorce connect to Klingberg? Afterall, this is Klingberg's article, not Sylvia's. Z1720 (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
• How does his son's political career relate to Klingberg? Did Klingberg convince his son to join politics? If there is no connection, perhaps this should be shortened and the paragraph merged with the paragraph about his sister. Z1720 (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
• "A microbiologist by profession and a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, her parents and siblings were murdered in the Holocaust." How does this directly connect to Klingberg? Why does the reader need to know this information to better understand Klingberg's biography? I think this can be reduced to "While living in post-war Poland, Klingberg met Adjia Eisman, who went by the name Wanda Jasinska, a microbiologist and survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto." Z1720 (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

  I've elaborated on the direct connections between the family members with additional sourcing. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 10:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Image review:

• File:Maklef Klingberg Jasinska.jpg and File:Wanda Jasinska and Marcus Klingberg.jpg need a US-pd tag  Not done have removed the images, do not appear to be US PD
• Per MOS:UPRIGHT, px should be replaced with upright.  Partly done pixel sizing removed altogether, thumbnails only
• Suggest adding alt text per MOS:ALT  Done

Source review:

• No concerns with earwig
• Source review not completed yet
• Source check not completed.

I will leave it here and put this on hold. Z1720 (talk) 02:57, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720: many thanks for undertaking the review. I've responded to all your comments; let me know if there's anything else. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 22:38, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Source review:

• Amnesty International: "Avraham Marcus KLINGBERG" titles should not be in all caps per MOS:ALLCAPS.  Done

• Sources checked and verified: 4, 11, 13, 17, 30, 36, 38.

Source review completed, comments above. Z1720 (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720 - thanks again for your reviewing. I've added material:

• that relates to Klingberg and Wanda Jasinska being jointly engaged in spying activities;
• that elaborates on Klingberg's participation in Sylvia's life and her attempts to have him released;
• that indicates Klingberg's grandson's views on his grandfather's motivations and also his personal effect.

Hope I've responded adequately to you queries. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 10:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Goldsztajn: If a passage is meant to be a connection to Klingberg, then it needs to be explicit in the article and obvious to the reader. The more text there is in an article, the less likely the reader is to read it. Here are some notes about specific passages that I find problematic:

• "A microbiologist by profession and a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto, her parents and siblings were murdered in the Holocaust." This seems to be about Jasinska, not Klingberg. I would move the microbiologist information to later in the sentence, when it is mentioned that she handled a bacteria strain. The rest can be moved into an article about her.
• "In September 1990, she died and her ashes interred at the Père Lachaise Cemetery in Paris." How does this connect to Klingberg? He doesn't remarry as far as I see, and the article doesn't describe how her death or burial affects him.
• "was active in the socialist anti-Zionist movement Matzpen" The article needs to explain how this directly connects to Klingberg, or should be removed.
• "an Israeli political activist serving a prison sentence on charges of spying for Syria" The article needs to explain how this directly connects to Klingberg, or should be removed.
• "Divorcing three years later, Sylvia later emigrated to France, where she was active in the far-left and married French philosopher Alain Brossat [fr]" The article needs to explain how this directly relates to Klingberg.
• "Sylvia died of cancer in October 2019." The article needs to explain how this directly relates to Klingberg.
• The first sentence about his grandson does not explain the direct connection between Brossat's political career and Klingberg: if Klingberg's philosophy inspired his grandson's political leanings, this needs to be explicitly stated.
• The quote about Klingberg is unnecessary and should be summarised in the article instead of remaining word-for-word in the article.
• "He was cremated, and his ashes were interred in Père Lachaise Cemetery." If he was interred next to his wife, then this should be included in the article and mention of her death might be more appropriate here.

Those are my thoughts about the suitability of what should be in the article. The reference section has been resolved. Z1720 (talk) 20:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720:. Comments/changes:

• Moved text of Jasinska's death and interment to that Klingberg's.
• Added further text on Klingberg / Sylvia relationship from his memoirs and Israeli jounralist comments.
• Jasinska's origins are mentioned in all the major pieces covering Klingberg and discussed in his recollections; I've made some copy-edits to make even more explicit the linkages; dropped mention of microbiologist.
• The material on Sylvia's relocation does directly relate to Klingberg - there's a sequence of events that are necessary to explain: (a) who initiated his attempted swap/release in the 1980s (not possible if Sylvia not in France) (b) his move to Paris on release from house arrest in 2003 (not possible if Sylvia not in France). It would be question begging without mention of why she was in France in the first place and also provides a clear explanation of why Klingberg's grandson has the name Brossat (and not Klingberg, or Adiv or something else).
• Removed quoted material and add more information on Brossat and relationship with Klingberg.

Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 00:27, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Goldsztajn: Sorry for the delay. First, I'll post some responses, then continue my review:

Responses:

• I am trying to avoid this article becoming a WP:COATRACK for other people. Some of the details mentioned about others are too far removed from Klingberg's biography that they are not necessary in this article. Examples are listed below:
• Even though Jasinska's origins might be mentioned in major pieces covering Klingberg, it does not mean that Klingberg's article on Wikipedia should include that information. Wikipedia's articles are typically shorter than the sources that they are based on and thus need to summarise and include only the most necessary information. Details about Jasinska's life are off-topic to Klingberg's article unless they directly relate to Klingberg's life. For example, Klingberg's marriage to Jasinska needs to be included in this article because it involves Klingberg. How Jasinska died does not involve Klingberg, and thus it should not be in the article.
• Sylvia's first marriage is not necessary to understand Klingberg's biography. It feels like trivia about Klingberg's thoughts about his daughter's choice in marriage, and is off-topic for this article. It would be better in an article about Sylvia or Ehud Adiv.
• Mention of Sylvia's second marriage is also not necessary. Brossat is not mentioned again in the biography, and his connection to Klingberg is not explained.
• Yes, the article should mention that Sylvia moved to Paris, to explain why Klingberg joined her in that city upon his release. However, the article does not need to explain why Sylvia is in Paris, as that is not related to Klingberg's biography.
• As for his grandson's different last name, many grandchildren have different last names from their grandparents. Since this is a grandchild from his daughter, most people in the Western world will understand the difference in name. Explaining this is not necessary in this article.
• " In September 2023, Brossat was elected to the French Senate, representing the Communist Party." The other information in the paragraph is related to Klingberg, but this sentence is about Brossat's achievement, and not Klingberg. It's not necessary in this article.

I'll wait for responses to the above before continuing. Z1720 (talk) 20:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Z1720 - I've not forgotten about this, but will need a few more days to reply, please. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 04:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

@Goldsztajn, when will you have time to address these comments? Ideally, this review should be wrapped up pretty soon. —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Goldsztajn: has not edited the article since March 27, so I am going to close this as a fail for now. When the comments about the article's focus are addressed, an editor can renominate this for GAN. Z1720 (talk) 00:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.