Talk:M1 (İzmir Metro)

Improving the article for GA review

I see that Ahmetlii (talk · contribs) has done a lot of work on this. But before GA review can start the article needs to be thoroughly copy-edited. I've had a quick look and found some sentence fragments and other grammar issues. Also, some parts look like they may have been translated from Turkish. I can do some copy-editing later but, first of all, can the original writer take a look at the History section? It may contain excessive detail in the second para, which is also unreferenced. Leoseliv (talk) 18:06, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

@Leoseliv I've referenced sentences in the second paragraph. Could you take a look into it and inform me if something is wrong? And yes, I have translated from Turkish, though I realized I didn't do attribution as I wasn't aware that the translation between wikis require attribution. Ahmetlii (talk) 09:26, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

@Leoseliv Are you still willing to review the page? The article is also copyedited as well. Ahmetlii (talk) 18:14, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Ahmetlii I am sorry I've been really busy lately and had no time for this. I see Mcguy15 has done some major revisions and the article looks much much better. Still, I think somebody who is more familiar with the timeline of the project, especially endless tenders being cancelled and re-awarded (which I originally found to be excessively detailed), should look at this. This is just in order to make sure that the text, after numerous revisions, still represents the events as they unfolded. Leoseliv (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:M1 (İzmir Metro)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: GeneralPoxter (talk · contribs) 14:49, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Review

Lead section/infobox

• Lead could be expanded a bit – for example, summarize construction history since a majority of the article's prose is devoted to that.
• Infobox needs refs for stats not cited in the article body (i.e. Native name, Rolling stock wagon counts broken down by wagon type, Number of tracks, gauges, operating speed)
  • @GeneralPoxter: I think I have cited most of the stats other than native name and number of tracks. I don't think those two needs to be cited, as per WP:SKYISBLUE. This can be counted as done, I think.Ahmetlii (talk) 20:07, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

1 Construction

• Could use WP:CITETRIM for "The Nenehatun (named after Nene Hatun) and Ümmühan Ana (named after the mother of Süleyman Demirel) tunnels were constructed."
• I removed the "which" in "The contractor[which?] resumed work in February 2010" (I don't think it's a weasel word, and the metro source themselves don't even specify who the contractors are; the vagueness is okay here since the work needed to find every contractor company's name is likely not worth the trouble for most readers)
• "A new tender was issued in October 2009 to finish the remaining work. However, that tender was cancelled by the Public Procurement Authority." needs a ref -  Done, cited.Ahmetlii (talk) 08:54, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
  
• "According to the plans, the line will be extended to Bornova district in the east and Güzelbahçe in the west...": "According to the plans" sounds a bit vague here (whose plans?). Ditto for "According to the plans, this 13.6 km (8.5 mi) extension will have another 11 stations."
  
• Lead says the extension is to Narlıdere, but here it says "7.2 km (4.5 mi) long Fahrettin Altay–Kaymakamlık extension". Reading the list of stations planned for the extension seems as if Kaymakamlık, not Narlıdere, is the terminus of the extension.
  • @GeneralPoxter Correct, Kaymakamlık station is the terminus at the extension, but the extension is entirely inside the borders of Narlıdere district (and therefore the extension is also referred as Narlıdere metro or Fahrettin Altay-Narlıdere extension - see [1] [2] [3]) However, to clarify the intention, I stated "to Narlıdere district" on the lead. Ahmetlii (talk) 10:48, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Okay but this is still not clear from the article, since nowhere is it mentioned that Kaymakamlık is within Narlıdere. I still recommend changing "Narlıdere district" to "Kaymakamlık station". GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 12:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
      •  Partly done, replaced the district with station.Ahmetlii (talk) 19:27, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
        • @GeneralPoxter I have reworded the sentences as "The line is planned to be extended to Bornova district in the east and Güzelbahçe in the west with further extensions planned for the future" and "... This 13.6 km (8.5 mi) extension is planned to have another 11 stations.". I think further detailing that would be unnecessary, as it's just a plan titled as "Transportation Master Plan" made by the owner (Metropolitan Municipality) and wouldn't worth trouble for the readers.
          • Looks good. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 20:31, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
• Could use WP:CITETRIM for "at a cost of ₺1.027 billion"
• "There are seven stations planned for the extension: Balçova, Çağdaş, Dokuz Eylül Üniversitesi Hastane, Güzel Sanatlar Fakültesi, Narlıdere, Siteler, and Kaymakamlık." needs a ref -  Done, cited Ahmetlii (talk) 05:50, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
• There is frequent use of the term "tender" (which I assume is equivalent to either "contract bid" or "contract offer"?) in this passage, which I am unfamiliar with. The google translation of most of the Turkish Izmir metro webpage sources appears to use the term "tender" as well for "ihale". I just wanted to confirm that "tender" is the common English term when discussing construction contracts, and if so, I suggest there be a relevant internal link for it.
• I do have concerns over the article length's emphasis on construction history over other aspects like stations, non-construction events, fare, etc., especially since some parts go into what is possibly unnecessary detail regarding tender awards and cancellations. This could be fixed by summarizing/trimming down construction history a bit and/or expanding other sections, but I don't think anything drastic needs to be done.
  • @GeneralPoxter I have detailed stations section and expanded the lead, while adding the accidents section. Ahmetlii (talk) 12:18, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
    • I do see all of the expansions above, except for an "accidents" section? I would also recommend some trimming of the Construction section at your discretion. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

      Oops, looks like I forgot to save my edit. It's added now. Ahmetlii (talk) 12:45, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

      • Okay, looks good. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:58, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

2 Stations

• Citations/sources need to be clarified either outside or in the graph, especially for commencement dates and line transfers.
  •  Done I have sourced line transfers for bus, other transfers are linked to the relevant article as far as I've seen. About commencement dates, it's already clarified outside of the table.Ahmetlii (talk) 20:27, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Not done yet; commencement dates and building types could still use refs. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 20:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

      @GeneralPoxter Hello, I've also referenced building types and commencement dates in the table. Ahmetlii (talk) 11:25, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

      • Looks good now. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:15, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

3 Trains

• In the infobox, rolling stock is broken down by ABB, CSR, CNR, and CRRC wagons. This could be discussed here as well.
  • @GeneralPoxter I think the main issue is solved, there's no need to detail wagons as it's just the name of wagons. Ahmetlii (talk) 17:23, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Okay, just take a look at the one remaining item point, and this article should be ready for promotion. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:29, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Overall, an interesting read, since I hope to visit İzmir one day. Some citations need to be clarified/added, but besides that, the article appears well-written, well-researched, neutral, stable, and illustrated. I am putting this article on hold until July 8. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 16:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@GeneralPoxter hello, I've linked "tender" to "procurement", tender is a common use in English for processes inside procurement according to the page I linked before on this comment and Tender (disambiguation). Ahmetlii (talk) 08:36, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Okay Ahmetlii, a week has gone and passed, and not all of my points have been addressed yet. Please let me know within the next 24 hours if you need an extension; else I will have to fail the review. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 22:12, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

@GeneralPoxter I need an extension for the deadline. Ahmetlii (talk) 10:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

No worries, I'll extend until July 12 if that's fine with you. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:11, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@GeneralPoxter Hello, I think I've addressed all of the issues above. Ahmetlii (talk) 17:27, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Great job on improvement Ahmetlii, promoting now. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 17:53, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Narutolovehinata5 (talk) 03:38, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Several article issues remain unresolved.

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

A train on the M1 line

• ... that the M1, the only active line of İzmir Metro, entered into service in 2000? Source: Consisting of 10 stations, it began service on 22 May 2000.
  • ALT1:... that the M1, the only active line of İzmir Metro, is still in the process of being extended? Source: Work on the 7.2 km (4.5 mi) long Fahrettin Altay–Kaymakamlık extension to the west began on 9 June 2018 and are planned to be finished in October 2022, at a cost of ₺1.027 billion.
  • ALT2:... that the M1, the only active line of İzmir Metro, is 19.8 km (12.3 mi) long? Source:
  • ALT3 ... that the tenders for extension of M1, the only active line of İzmir Metro, has been cancelled several times? Source:

The İzmir Metropolitan Municipality sent a cease and desist letter to the company on 14 February 2006, and subsequently cancelled the tender in November 2006.

• The tender was cancelled on 13 August 2009 after the contractor had requested a 15-month extension.
• ... but it was again cancelled by the Public Procurement Authority due to unspecified reasons.
• A new tender was issued in October 2009 to finish the remaining work. However, that tender was cancelled by the Public Procurement Authority.
• A third tender was made in April 2010, but it was cancelled by the municipality after the court reverted the cancellation of the second tender. The municipality signed an agreement with the winner of the second tender but the agreement was reverted after the high court reversed the decision of lower court about the second tender. A fourth tender was issued in August 2010 and construction started in September.

• ALT4 ... that the construction of M1, the only active line of İzmir Metro, has stopped because the contractor company couldn't finish the construction on time and requested 12 months more? Source: The construction was fully stopped in 2008 after the contractor could not finish the extension and requested 12 months more, which was refused.

• Reviewed: [[]]
• Comment: This is my first nomination to DYK, so if I made any mistakes, feel free to give feedback.

Improved to Good Article status by Ahmetlii (talk). Self-nominated at 14:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC).

• Non reviewer comment Hi, I've had the page on my watchlist due to my copyedit from a while back. Just popping in to say that none of these hooks are really that interesting; they are more trivial facts about the line. Something that could be more interesting is the many cancellations and re-approval of the tenders, as that is unusual. :) — Mcguy15 (talk, contribs) 15:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - All of the non-English sources need to have translated titles. A few seem to be blogs, so an expert in the region should double-check them for reliability.
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - The article is in need of a major cleanup. More below.

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - None of the hooks given are particularly suited for DYK, though the cancellations could be spun into a proper hook with some work.

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: I don't think this article is ready for DYK, and it probably shouldn't have been passed at GAN in its current state. There are a lot of grammatical issues that need to be fixed, some sources may need to be replaced with reliable versions, and quite a few essential sections (frequency, ridership, a route description, more detailed fare information, technical details only found in the infobox) are missing from the prose. SounderBruce 04:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I've seen it just now, thanks for notifying me via talk page message. Anyway, here is my clarifications about some of the issues addressed above:

• About sources, I think that the sources are complying with the guidelines. If you meant the line operator's website or the municipality website by saying "A few seem to be blogs", I think it is under acceptable usage per WP:PRIMARY. I also didn't know that translation of the source titles are a primary requisite, however I am willing to translate the citation titles on the page (I guess I have missed that point before). I've asked for a reviewer for sources on WikiProject Turkey.
• On cleanup per grammar, the article has been copyedited before both by a reviewer and myself, however if I or the reviewer have missed something about the grammar, please let me know by detailing where is the issue.

I am also going to add more details about the line if the informations mentioned by you exists in the Internet, as well as trying to write a better hook; thanks for the feedback!Ahmetlii (talk) 15:44, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Ahmetlii: It's been two weeks and it doesn't look like any of the above changes have been made and no new hooks are ready. It's OK if you can't get to them right now, but we'll have to mark this nomination for closure soon if they haven't been fixed. BuySomeApples (talk) 00:40, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Marking for closure unless the nominator comes back in the next couple days or someone else adopts this one. BuySomeApples (talk) 04:53, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

@BuySomeApples:: Hello, I'm busy nowadays, and I really don't think that I am currently having the motivation to pursuing this nomination. If I will be able to re-nominate the page again by re-opening this nomination, then you can close this page.ahmetlii ^✉ _{(Please ping me on a reply!)} 14:06, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Ahmetlii, I'm afraid it's now or never for DYK. Once this nomination closes, the article cannot be renominated at DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:56, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

I have done my best for @Ahmetlii: the rest is up to you. Seloloving (talk) 18:58, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

References