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Talk:List of legally mononymous people

Latest comment: 2 years ago by EmeraldRange in topic Help needed re how to classify Burmese names
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Untitled edit

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

There's academic utility in a list of people who are legally mononymous even if they're not notable enough for articles. -- Resuna (talk) 19:03, 4 September 2012 (UTC)Reply

I can find no evidence that Elvis ever legally changed his name to a mononym, nor was he born mononymic, the only two criteria for making it onto this list. --Cryptognome (talk) 05:24, 10 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

References edit

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

AFAICT references are better put in the pointed-to articles than in this - though I agree that having specific citations for the legal name would be helpful. 69.181.69.97 (talk) 23:34, 4 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

About Cher
According to this reference, Cher got legally changed her name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KillerQ (talk • contribs) 22:37, 9 December 2013 (UTC)Reply

Monarchy edit

Latest comment: 4 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Aren't British monarchy considered to have a single name? --aliw136 17:37, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

No, it's Mountbatten-Windsor. 71.176.51.160 (talk) 19:33, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

According to that page, "None of the above, except arguably the children of the Earl and Countess of Wessex, actually have a surname as part of their legal name", though - so the royal family are mononymous --24.228.88.37 (talk) 03:48, 1 November 2016 (UTC)Reply

Well, Prince Charles' full Name is Charles Philip Arthur George, so no mononym. 89.247.255.193 (talk) 20:21, 18 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Chadrick W. Fowler -> "Chadrick" edit

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

There is no article for this person and notability has not been established. A legal document may show that the subject has changed his name to a legal mononym, but this is not necessarily sufficient to establish notability, otherwise this article would be a list of mostly Indonesian mononyms.

Reverted yet again. 71.176.51.160 (talk) 21:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Chadrick_Final_Judgment.pdf

While not exactly a celebrity A-lister, Chadrick meets the requirements of being notable, being known to such a large amount of people through various works. The goal should be to keep this list as accurate as possible. As the notes to editors indicate, if anyone feels that this list is becoming too long, it should be separated into different categories (i.e. actors, writers, royalty, etc.), particularly for the sake of mononyms from Indonesia.

Remember, Wikipedia is not your personal blog. There are rules, and one of them is WP:WTAF . Take a moment to read it, and then also read the Wikipedia policy on WP:Notability. Keep in mind that just because YOU have changed YOUR name to Chadrick, is not notable enough in its own right. If you can find independent sources that conform to WP:CITE , add it to the article, then add Chadrick to the list. 71.176.51.160 (talk) 17:23, 18 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Help needed re how to classify Burmese names edit

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

I believe that the following people are likely mononymous, after accounting for the extensive list of Burmese honorific titles.

However:

  1. I can't tell for sure for some of them — e.g. Ba and U seem to be used sometimes as a title and sometimes as a name (there's U Kyin U, for whom U seems implausible to be a title in both cases)
  2. sometimes the title comes after the name, like Saw U, and I can't tell when that's a title vs a name
  3. some seem to have a whole set of titles, like Sayagyi U Ba Khin (Sayagyi, U, and Ba are all titles, so the actual name seems to be either Ba Khin or just Khin)
  4. some are distinguished only by order of titles — eg Min Saw Hla vs Saw Min Hla
  5. some seem to have multiple names, and I can't tell what's canonical as the "full name", nor if that is even a meaningful term here
  6. some have names that are variably segmented, and I can't tell whether these are different name components or a different convention about breaking up syllables that breaks the idea of what a "single word" is
  7. I can't tell the status of hyphenated names
  8. some (mainly royalty) seem to have name components the are place names, and I can't tell their status
  9. I can't tell if there's a distinct naming convention for Burmese royalty, as there is with eg Japanese royalty
  10. some are monks, and I can't tell to what extent some equivalent to Papal names going on (nor how we should handle those) — eg U Gambira
  11. some seem to be composed entirely of titles, with no name at all; are they zero-nymous, not mononymous‽ — eg Binnya U, Mi Saw U, Saw Binnya
  12. I can't tell who's notable
  13. maybe Burmese names just fundamentally break the classification, for both linguistic and cultural reasons, and so the list should handle them specially

Note that even without a given name vs surname distinction, people can have multiple names; e.g. it's common for Spanish given names, or English middle names, to have multiple distinct subcomponents.

So… help please. Who of these are actually mononymous, and of those, who's notable enough to include? Or if the categorization just fundamentally fails for Burmese names, how should that be handled?

When responding, please indicate your expertise on this topic (eg whether you are Burmese, speak the language, or have studied Burmese naming); don't just opine if you don't know this specific area.

Likely candidates list (sorted by the non-title component first, then by the rest):

So… help please? Sai ¿?✍ 19:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Some of the names on your list may not actually contain titles but only appear to in lossy Romanisation. For instance U Kyin U is ဦးကြင်ဥ (MLCTS u: krang u.) so does not end with the title ဦး u:, though it does appear to begin with it. NB I don't know Burmese, beyond knowing that it has all-over-the-place romanisation practices. 4pq1injbok (talk) 20:07, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Looks like ဦး is high tone meaning sir, whereas ဥ is creaky tone meaning egg or tuber.

The former entry says it's used for older men. Some of the biographies indicate U as part of a name at birth; maybe that's actually ဥ? Or it's given as an honorific by social status, not just age? Sai ¿?✍ 20:49, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

See generally https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Burmese_honorific_terms Sai ¿?✍ 20:55, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'm a native Burmese speaker and from the country too. I'm also particularly interested in royalty and have researched past royal titles. Here are my general responses to your points followed by my opinion on your list of names:

  1. Beyond just lossy Romanization, some of the honorifics are also personal names (e.g. Htet Htet Moe Oo has the same ဦး as the honorific, but it means 'first' in this instance). Min, Ba, U are all common name components.
  2. The title is almost always at the start of the name with a few mostly archaic exceptions like epithets (e.g. Saw E Kan-Kaung) or the title Yaza/Raja
  3. Some titles are indeed stacked. Place name titles and royalty are more commonly stacked.
  4. Titles can end up being integral parts of people's names (e.g. U Nu and often distinguished one name from another.
  5. Many Burmese people changed their name frequently and would traditionally change their titles too.
  6. Romanization is not standardized but we are supposed to follow these conventions
  7. Hypenated names are usually either because the writer was unsure if it is a loanword (see above) or if it would be confusing like Pa-O
  8. Place names were often titles to themselves. U Thant was called Pantanaw Thant at one point. Later Konbaung kings were given a city to rule as prince and took that name when ascending to the throne like with Thibaw Min from Hsipaw.
  9. Burmese royalty tend to have very long titles but they are not common usage like Japanese emperors. Across centuries the naming conventions changed drastically (what used to be a Prince title became a King title out of succession debates for example). I am not versed in Arakanese royalty.
  10. When someone enters the monkhood, they take on an entirely different name. So, U Gambira was given the name Gambira and U is the honorific
  11. Royals and nobles often entirely lost their personal name when ascending to their title, hence some seemingly zeronymic
  12. Notability is another issue as some titles are integral to the name and others are not. This is entirely cultural and inconsistent. I will mark which ones I think are notable but that is entirely subjective and others should have a look too.
  13. :p

And here is your list with my opinions. Notable people (by the criteria of do I think someone would have heard of them) marked with a ☨. Furthermore on notability, I was somewhat conservative. By the standards of other people on the list, many more would be as notable within Burma as some of the more obscure name changes

  • 0 name?
    • Binnya U U (ဥူ) is the personal name☨
    • Mi Saw U Saw U is the personal name (not mononymic)
    • Saw Binnya Unclear: Mon name. Binnya is likely the personal name. May have also taken the titles and lost all personal names.
    • Saw U of Myinsaing U is the personal name
    • Shin Saw of Pagan Saw is the personal name
The Other 150 Burmese Names
  • Bhaddanta Āciṇṇa Āciṇṇa is the monastic name.
  • Saw Ahlwan of Pagan Ahlwan is the personal name (mononymic)
  • Shin Arahan Both are titles. Monastic name is Mahāthera (မဟာထေရ်). Dhammadassī was explicitly granted as a title/degree, but it was used as part of his full monastic name. unclear'☨
  • Mwei Auk Mwei Auk is the personal name. (not mononymic)
  • Saya Aye Aye is the personal name.
  • Min Bala of Myaungmya Bala is the personal name.
  • Saw Beza Beza is the personal name.
  • Min Bin Bin is the personal name.☨
  • Saya Chone Chone is the personal name☨
  • Min Dawlya Either Dawlya or Mathu is the personal name. unsure
  • U Dhammaloka Laurence Carroll was the personal name. Dhammaloka is the monastic name unsure☨
  • Saw Diga of Mye-Ne Diga is the personal name
  • Saw E E is the personal name. Kan-kaung is an epithet (lucky)
  • Eindawthe (Htilominlo) Unclear. Eindawthe could be personal name or it could be the full title. unsure
  • U Gambira Gamibra is the monastic name.☨
  • Saw Ba U Gyi Ba U Gyi is the personal name (not mononymic)☨
  • Shin Saw Gyi of Sagaing Saw is the personal name. Gyi is an epithet (great)
  • Min Hla of Ava Hla is the personal name
  • Min Saw Hla Saw Hla is the personal name (not mononymic)
  • Saw Min Hla Unclear if Min Hla or Hla is the personal name. Son is Min Hla and others have the title Saw Min at the time unsure
  • Shin Saw Hla Hla is the personal name.
  • Saw Hnit Hnit is the personal name.
  • Saw Hnit of Toungoo Hnit or Lulin is the personal name.
  • Shin Hpa of Pagan Hpa is the personal name.
  • Smim Htaw Htaw is the personal name.☨
  • Htihlaing of Prome Htihlaing is the personal name but it is two words. (not mononymic)
  • Saw Htut of Pinya Htut is the personal name.
  • Mahn Johnny Johnny is the personal name. He may have a last name. unsure
  • U Kala Kala is the personal name.☨
  • Maung Khaing Khaing is the personal name but Maung may be integral
  • U Khandi Khandi is the monastic name
  • Min Khayi Khari/Khayi is the personal name but he was also Ali Khan unsure
  • Min Khin Saw Kinsaw is the personal name but it is two words (not mononymic)
  • Sayagyi U Ba Khin Title is integral but Ba Khin is the personal name (not mononymic)☨
  • Me Khway Khway is the personal name.
  • Saw Khway of Ava Khway is the personal name.
  • Kyaikhtisaung Sayadaw Both titles. Aung Nyein is his personal name. Pannadipa is his monastic name. unsure
  • Daw Kyan Kyan is the personal name
  • Kale Kye-Taung Nyo Kale Kye-Taung is the title. Nyo is the personal name.
  • U Kyin Kyin is the personal name but title is integral
  • U Kyin U Kyin U is the personal name (not mononymic)
  • Saw Lat of Pagan Lat is the personal name
  • Binnya Law Law is the personal name
  • Min Letya of Ava Letya is the personal name.
  • Min Linka Linka is the personal name but he had a childhood name of Kaung Thein unsure
  • Saw Lon of Pagan Lon is the personal name.
  • Min Lu Lu is the personal name but his real/legal name was Nyan Paw (not mononymic)
  • Saw Lu Lu could be the personal name but this is when Saw started to become a valid given name. Mononymic either way.
  • Thakin Lwin Lwin is the personal name☨
  • U Lwin Lwin is the personal name
  • Mahasi Sayadaw Sobhana/Thawbanna (သောဘန) is the monastic name☨
  • Shin Mahasilavamsa Silavamsa/Thilawunna (သီလဝံသ) is the monastic name. Maha is an epithet in this instance. It is mononymic by Burmese standards but unsure about in Pali
  • Shin Mauk of Pagan Mauk is the personal name
  • Shin Mi-Nauk Nauk is the personal name but Mi is integral
  • Nyaungyan Min Thissa is the personal name, but he dropped it upon ascension.
  • Mingun Sayadaw Vicittasārābhivaṃsa (ဝိစိတ္တသာရာဘိဝံသ) is the monastic name. It is mononymic by Burmese standards but unsure about in Pali☨
  • Min Saw Mon Saw Mon is the name (or Suleiman Shah). (not mononymic)
  • Bo Mya Mya is the name but Bo is integral☨
  • Thakin Mya Mya is the name but Thakin is integral☨
  • Saw Myat of Sagu Myat is the personal name
  • U Myint Myint is the personal name
  • Saya Myit Myit is the personal name
  • Saw Nan of Pagan Nan is the personal name
  • Ashin Nandamalabhivamsa Nandamala (နန္ဒမာလာ) is the monastic name
  • U Nārada Nārada is the monastic name
  • Min Nemi of Toungoo Nemi is the monastic name
  • Nga Nu Nu or Nga-nu is the personal name. Nga was a title in the 11th century and evolved to mean "Person who is [adjectvive]". unsure if this is a title.
  • Saya Gyi U Nu Nu is the personal name.
  • Ba Saw Nyo Nyo is the personal name but he also went by Muhammad Shah. unsure
  • Min Saw O O is the personal name.
  • Saw O O is the personal name but Saw is integral
  • Daw Ohn Ohn is the personal name.
  • Mwei Ohn-Naung Despite the article's disclaimer Mwei is not a title I know of. Her personal name is Mwei Ohn-Naung (not mononymic). Even if Mwei is a title, Ohn Naung is 2 words.
  • Saw Omma of Pinya Omma is the personal name.
  • Saw Omma of Sagaing Omma is the personal name.
  • Naga Daw Oo Oo is the personal name.
  • Saw Oo I of Toungoo Saw Oo is the personal name. (not mononymic)
  • Saw Oo II of Toungoo Saw Oo is the personal name. (not mononymic)
  • U Ottama Ottama is the monastic name but U is integral
  • Padethayaza Padethayaza is the title. The chronicles likely don't mention his name (unsure)
  • Min Pale of Paukmyaing Pale is the personal name.
  • Saw Pale of Nyaungyan Pale is the personal name
  • Saw Pale of Pinya Pale is the personal name.
  • Saw Pale of Yamethin Pale is the personal name.
  • U Pandita Pandita is the monastic name
  • U Pannavamsa Pannvamsa is the monastic name. It is mononymic by Burmese standards but unsure about in Pali
  • Pantaung of Toungoo Pantaung Min and Toungoo are all titles. His name is not mentioned. (unsure)
  • Smim Payu Payu is the personal name.
  • Achoketan Saya Pe Pe is the personal name.
  • Min Phalaung Phalaung is the personal name but he was also known by other names unsure
  • Phaungga of Toungoo Phaungga and Min are both titles but his personal name is effectively Phaungga unsure
  • Ba Saw Phyu Saw Phyu is the personal name. He was also known by other names LIKELY not mononymic
  • U Pinnyasiha (Shwe Nya War Sayadaw) Pinnyasiha is the monastic name
  • U Ponnya Ponnya is the personal name but U is integral. His birth name was Po Si (2 words)☨
  • Min Pyan of Ava Pyan is the personal name.
  • Shin Raṭṭhasāra Raṭṭhasāra is the monastic name
  • Min Raza of Mrauk-U Raza is likely the personal name but like all Arakanese kings i'm unsure
  • Razadarit His name was Basum Bansak (အပသုံပါင်စက်) and Razadarit is a title meaning King of Kings (not mononymic)☨
  • U Razak Razak was his Burmese personal name but his legal name was Abdul Razak (not mononymic)
  • Min Razagyi Razagyi is likely his name. It may also be Raza. Like all Arakanese kings I'm unsure
  • Sao Saimong Saimong is the personal name. But he often used his Dynasty (Mangrai). unsure if that's a last name☨
  • Saw Sala of Sagaing Sala is the personal name.
  • Saw Sala of Toungoo Sala is the personal name.
  • Salingathu Salingathu may be the personal name. Like all Arakanese kings I'm unsure
  • Saya San San is the personal name but his childhood name was Yar Kyaw unsure☨
  • Ashin Sandadika Sandadika is the monastic name
  • Shin Sandalinka Sandalinka is the monastic name despite many titles.
  • Saya Saung Saung is the personal name, but unsure as his birthname was Maung Maung Gyi
  • Smim Sawhtut Sawhtut is the personal name but it is 2 words (not mononymic)
  • Min Sekkya Sekkya is the personal name
  • Ma Sein of Toungoo Sein is the personal name
  • Shin Shwe of Pagan Shwe is the personal name
  • U Sīlānanda Sīlānanda is the monastic name
  • Sitagu Sayadaw Nyanissara (ဉာဏိဿရ) is the monastic name
  • Webu Sayadaw Both are titles. I can't easily find his monastic name unsure☨
  • Mi Ta-Lat Ta-lat is the personal name
  • Thakin Soe Soe is the personal name but Thakin is integral
  • Sokkate of Toungoo Sokkate is the personal name
  • Mingyi Swe Swe, Thihatu or Theinkhathu are his perosnal names. All mononymic
  • Tarabya of Ava Tarabya is the personal name☨
  • Bo Taya Taya is the personal name
  • Tay Za Tayza/Teza is the personal name.☨
  • Sayadaw U Tejaniya Tejaniya (တေဇနိယ) is the monastic name
  • Mohnyin Thado Both are titles. His birth name was Nan Si (2 words) but he dropped it upon ascension. unsure
  • Ma Thanegi Thanegi is her personal name.
  • Baganset U Thaw Thaw is the personal name but U is integral
  • May Hnin Theindya Theindya is the personal name.
  • Min Theinkha Theinkha is the personal name but he was born Aung Htun and that may be his legal name unsure
  • Minbyauk Thihapate Thihapate is the personal name and is either 2 words (Thiha pate) or one. unsure.
  • Thihathu of Ava Thihathu is the personal name.☨
  • Thinkhaya III of Toungoo Thinkhaya is the regnal name. His name is Saw Lu (2 words) unsure
  • Thittila Seṭṭhilābhivaṃsa is the monastic name. Thittila may be an alternate name. It's unclear. It is mononymic by Burmese standards but unsure about in Pali. Khin is his pre-monastic name.
  • May Hnin Thwe-Da Thwe-Da (သောဲဍာ) is her personal name. It is mononymic in Mon.
  • U Thuzana Thuzana is the monastic name
  • U Tin Tin is the personal name but U is integral
  • Shwe Twante Sayadaw Vayama (ဝါယမ) is the monastic name
  • Shin Uttarajiva Uttarajīva is the monastic name.
  • Uzana of Toungoo Uzana is the personal name
  • U Vimala Vimala (ဝိမလ) is the monastic name
  • Theippan Maung Wa Wa is the personal name but this is a pen name. His legal name is Sein Tin (not mononymic)☨
  • Maung Weik Maung may be a title but given the recency, it's likely part of his personal name (not mononymic)
  • Ashin Wirathu Wirathu is the monastic name☨
  • U Wisara Wisara is the monastic name☨
  • Maung Wuntha Wuntha is the name but his legal name is Soe Thein (not mononymic)
  • Min Yaza of Wun Zin All are titles he adopted. His personal name was Nyo.
  • Yazeinda Yazeinda is his monastic name.
  • Saw Ba Yi Ba Yi is his personal name (not mononymic)
  • Saw Yun of Pagan Yun is his personal name
  • Maung Zarni Zarni is his personal name.☨
  • Saw Zein Zein is his personal name (really Zeik) but he was Mon and his Mon title of Binnya Ran De has 2 words in the personal name Ran De. unsure.

EmeraldRange (talk) 02:41, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Original research edit

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

The inclusion of Quinn is not based on reliable sources discussing them, but based on interpreting Canadian law. This is original research, and was readded after an attempted WP:BRD (removed by me). Please discuss how our policies and guidelines allow interpretation of laws regarding specific people to exist in articles. Urve (talk) 21:43, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I strongly agree. Completely inappropriate for a BLP issue to be purporting to interpret the law and make a determination with respect to a particular person. Without a source indicating this specific name change is legal, it can’t be included on this list.--Trystan (talk) 18:59, 11 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I quoted a Canadian Supreme Court decision. It doesn't require particularized analysis for every such person any more than it does in the US or UK which also have common law name change.

This is not original or controversial, it's well settled. You might be unaware of it, but that's not determinative.

There is no special legal opinion for every single person who changes their name, or gets one at birth, that the name is "legal". That's just not how it works at all, and isn't how you know someone's name in the first place. (Not to mention, birth certificates, name change orders, passport records, etc are often protected by law, and you can't access them. Yet you don't doubt the legitimacy of the name of everyone you meet, asking them to prove themselves, do you? Be reasonable.) Sai ¿?✍ 21:44, 25 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Saizai, your snark aside, I am aware of the common law, in particular the ancient right to go by any name you wish, and don't "doubt" that Quinn is legally mononymous. My contention is not that Quinn has not had a court case, nor is it that it's controversial. It's that it's entirely original research without any secondary sourcing saying that they are legally mononymous. (Read what I linked.) Even if Quinn had a court case changing their name, I would still contest it, albeit on different grounds. The issue is that we are making claims about a living person without any secondary sources saying that those claims are true - the claims may very well be true (I don't particularly care), but we are not guided by what is true, but instead by what is verifiable.
As an analogy, say there was a genocide that was never reported as a genocide by any source. Would it be right to take the definition of genocide and to then add an entry to the list of genocides? It's true, but it's not verifiable, because it requires independent analysis of other sources, and makes a claim that no source themself makes.
And for what it's worth, sourcing is required by our policies and guidelines, even though it's not negative or controversial. The material has been challenged, so we need it "attributed to a reliable, published source" - the source given is not reliable for specific analytical claims about specific people never mentioned, so it's insufficient. Urve (talk) 05:49, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply
The article's implied claim about the universal legality of name changes by common usage in Canada is dubious. First, it fails to recognize that Canada is not entirely a common law country, but includes 8.5 million people who live in the civil law jurisdiction of Québec. Second, it fails to ask whether, in each of Canada's common law jurisdictions, the common law ability to change name through common usage has been revoked by statute. A cursory search indicates at least a couple of provinces where it has.
The court decision quoted in the article is from the Supreme Court of British Columbia (a trial court), not the Supreme Court of Canada, and deals specifically with BC's Name Act. As a 1994 decision by a master, it's not even a particularly strong authority for the current law in BC, and has no applicability elsewhere.
The article on Quinn does not indicate where they are legally resident (why would it?), which would be a necessary starting point for making any legal conclusions, no matter how obvious they may seem. Even if we could establish residence, we would then need to establish whether name change through common usage exists in that jurisdiction, what the specific legal requirements are to do so, and apply the law to the facts of this case (which we can't possibly know in sufficient detail to make such a determination).
In short, Wikipedia is completely unsuited to synthesizing even the most straightforward legal opinions, and for good reason absolutely prohibited from doing so in the case of BLPs.
One might argue that the scope of this article is fundamentally flawed, and that its assertion that all name changes listed are "legal" is undesirable, unreasonable, or unattainable. But that is an argument to change the scope and title of the article, not to include BLPs in the scope as it stands without proper sourcing.--Trystan (talk) 13:34, 26 August 2021 (UTC)Reply
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