Talk:List of Mexican–American War monuments and memorials

I removed

the Alamo, not because I don't want to remember it but because I am pretty sure that was a different war. That was the War for Texas Independence. I think. Carptrash (talk) 05:40, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Ah, they blur together though, don't they? Okay. --Doncram (talk) 06:23, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, @Doncram:, one war of imperialist aggression is pretty much like another, especially when they are more or less at the same place & time. Carptrash (talk) 19:05, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

The Mexican-American War was fought between the United States and Mexico whereas the Texas Revolution was fought between the Republic of Texas and Mexico.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:17, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Texas Revolution memorials and other Mexican-American monuments and memorials

It has been asserted to me that the "Texas Revolution", supposedly running from October 2, 1835 to April 21, 1836, is held by some to be different than the Mexican–American War, supposedly running from 1846 to 1848. I dunno, i wasn't there. Maybe there's room in Wikipedia for another list or two? To cover the Texas imperialist aggression war or whatever. List of Texas War monuments and memorials? And separately or together to cover other Tejano or Mexican-American contributions-related monuments, such as Tejano Monument in Austin, Texas, and such as two monuments to Mexican-American world war II veterans in Sacramento, California and in Kansas. There also are significant works of art and exhibits of multiple works of art relating to building a wall across the border (such as exhibit ongoing at a museum in Albuquerque, New Mexico), and otherwise relating to Mexican-American relations. Combine those into a List of what?. --Doncram (talk) 20:38, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, we could create a List of Texas Revolution monuments and memorials. But are there enough monuments for this?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:40, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I think you could also create Tejano Monument.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I think yes about a Texas war related list:

• San Jacinto Monument, "a 567.31-foot-high (172.92-meter) column located on the Houston Ship Channel in unincorporated Harris County, Texas, United States, near the city of Houston. The monument is topped with a 220-ton star that commemorates the site of the Battle of San Jacinto, the decisive battle of the Texas ..."
• First Shot of the Texas Revolution Monument [1]
• Alamo Cenotaph
• The Alamo itself
• Fannin Memorial Monument, [2]
• Monument to Texas Revolution Georgia Battalion Volunteers, in Albany, Texas [3]
• Texas Heroes Monument, unveiled April 21, 1900 in Gonzales, Texas [4]

That's just to start. For this there are several battlefields within the current U.S. which can be covered. And probably battleships and schools named after the events, if namings count as memorials. --Doncram (talk) 20:55, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

And perhaps others in Category:Monuments and memorials in Texas, and statues of Sam Houston (e.g. A Tribute to Courage) and others. --Doncram (talk) 21:11, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I believe it's called the Texas Revolution, not the Texas War...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:25, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I believe I've given enough support, User:Zigzig20s, what gives about your not starting it yet? --Doncram (talk) 06:13, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, feel free to start the List of Texas Revolution monuments and memorials.Zigzig20s (talk) 06:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Missing monuments

The Descendants of Mexican War Veterans website gives its list of where there are monuments and memorials. Then they state "The above list does not purport to be all-inclusive. If you know of a monument or memorial that you think ought to be included, please contact us."

And there is US-MEXICAN WAR SOLDIER DATABASE's list of monuments, itself sourcing the above list (Descendants of Mexican War Veterans, www.dmwv.org/honorming/monmem.htm), but with some more detail.

These are (sorted by state, with DATABASE info interspersed, indented):

• Mexico City (we have some mentions)

• Mexico City Mexico Mexico City National Cemetery

• Escondido, California (we have it, if that is the San Pasqual Battlefield State Historic Park, which may have a plaque and a bas relief)

• California Escondido San Pasqual Battlefield Monuments

• Sonoma, California (Bear Flag Monument)

• California Sonoma Sonoma Historic Marker and the Bear Flag Statue

• Cynthiana, Kentucky

• Kentucky Cynthiana Battlegrove Cemetery monument

• Frankfort, Kentucky

• Kentucky Frankfort Kentucky Military Monument Done, if this is the Kentucky War Memorial which is in Frankfort and is about MAW among other wars.

• Paris, Kentucky

• Kentucky Paris Paris Cemetery monument

• Baltimore, Maryland (we have some mention)

• Maryland Baltimore Monument

• Biloxi National Military Cemetery

• Mississippi Biloxi Biloxi National Military Cemetery, graves of four unknown soldiers

• Jackson County Mississippi

• Mississippi Jackson Co 3 panels ??? Is there error confusing Jackson County vs. Jackson the city? Is this covered now by our mention of Hinds County's War Memorial Building, Jackson, Mississippi, a Mississippi Landmark. Includes a panel commemorating the Battle of Buena Vista and panels for Jefferson C. Davis and for John A. Quitman, seen in video at "Walt's Look Around the War Memorial Building".. --Doncram (talk) 01:42, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

• Columbia, South Carolina

• South Carolina Columbia Palmetto Regiment Mexican War Monument

• Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

• Pennsylvania Harrisburg State of Pennsylvania Mexican War Monument

• Gallatin, Tennessee (we have some mention)

• Tennessee Gallatin Mexican War monument

• Lawrenceburg, Tennessee (we have some mention)

• Tennessee Lawrenceburg Mexican War monument

• Austin, Texas

• Texas, Austin: Plaque at State Capitol with names of 141 soldiers

• Brownsville, Texas

• Texas, Brownsville: Fort Brown Memorial Flagpole. Mentioned at http://www.dmwv.org/mexwar/mwsites/cameron.htm.

• Bayview Cemetery, Texas

• Texas Corpus Christi Bayview Cemetery

• Corpus Christi, Texas (we have some mention)

• Texas Corpus Christi Army of Occupation Monument

This wikipedia list currently has some but not all of the above. They miss Annapolis Maryland and perhaps some others that we have. --Doncram (talk) 22:31, 9 March 2018 (UTC) --Doncram (talk) 00:53, 10 March 2018 (UTC) --02:53, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Updated with some strikeouts.--Doncram (talk) 16:21, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

There is at least one missing memorial at Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery in San Diego; pictured at Battle of San Pasqual#Legacy. ☆ Bri (talk) 03:49, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Bri, thanks! --Doncram (talk) 23:01, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Citation needed tags

I am finding some of these really annoying. For example the Mexican War Midshipmen's Monument. What the heck else could it be? How about we try not to add monuments without a citation and we don't add a citation needed tag to something without googling it first? This is the sort of thing that makes me want to go elsewhere. Carptrash (talk) 04:46, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

WP:AGF. Always good to have a reference or two with some context anyway.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:04, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Outside the US or Mexico

Are there no monuments outside the US or Mexico?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:16, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

If there was one in Ireland, this IrishCentral.com article should have mentioned it. But Canada, England, Ireland are possibilities for where there might be some memorial....anywhere an adventurer/mercenary/other in the war might have come from, or gone back to. --Doncram (talk) 20:44, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

See also

The red link "List of Texas Revolution monuments and memorials" currently appears in the See also. If there are not immediate plans to create this list, we should remove the red link from the article. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 13:46, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Oh, i didn't see this posting, before I just moved the redlink into the preceding section about "Related monuments and memorials". I created the redlink, but I recognize that many editors would not allow a redlink in a "See also" section. Is it okay where it was moved to? A list-article for that topic has been partway developed, at #Texas Revolution memorials and other Mexican-American monuments and memorials discussion section above, and I hope/expect it will be created sometime within a few weeks. Okay by me either way, if current redlink stays in or if someone wants to remove it. --Doncram (talk) 22:40, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

References

I am not quite sure where the comment above came from, but the book is listed as the first reference, but I will list it again. Carptrash (talk) 00:12, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Scope to include all known gravesites perhaps

It may be feasible to define this list-article to cover all memorial buildings, monuments, and plaques, etc. relating to the MAW, similar to what has been done for List of Confederate monuments, but also to go on and cover all statues of MAW generals and all gravestones, wherever they may be, of soldiers who died in the MAW. Or to cover each cemetery that has any, e.g. the military cemetery at Biloxi has four or six or some other number of war dead, to be covered as one item. That expansion would be impossible for the American Civil War, say, because there are just too many graves and too many cemeteries to cover. In MAW, about 13,000 U.S. soldiers died, but of those that died near Mexico city those are all reburied in one cemetery with one monument for them all. Relatively few bodies, usually of officers only, were brought back from Mexico to their hometowns in the U.S. (as covered by Steven R. Butler in Burying the Dead (summary from their master's thesis). I am thinking all of their gravestones may be listed by us. For non-officers, there usually will be no marker/gravestone available to cover. Covering all veterans' gravesites after they eventually died, would be too much. But covering all known graves of all U.S. casualties in the war seems feasible. This could be done a section within this list article, and split out if it became too large, but I tend to think it is a finite, small number to be covered, so why not cover them all? There could be a section for all Mexican dead, too, although less is available online in English on the internet for them, I presume, so it might not develop much. So how about using Find-A-Grave-type tools and trying to do this? --Doncram (talk) 21:05, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Among the more prominent veterans are Aztec Club members, but again I think we don't want to cover veterans' graves. --Doncram (talk) 22:37, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Mormon Battalion monuments

User:Doncram: I've just created the Mormon Battalion Monument (a potential DYK if it gets expanded within a week). There are many more monuments to the Mormon Battalion we could add, including this one.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:28, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

There are apparently two in San Diego. The 1969 one I created, and another one dedicated in 1940. Also in 1940, the Mormon Battalion Monument (New Mexico) in New Mexico.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:17, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Mormon Battalion#Historic sites and monuments has quite a list, many lacking links. I guess that could be split out to a new list-article and expanded. Or a separate list of monuments alone? I do like there being a collection of all the historic sites, not just monuments, though there is obvious overlap.—Doncram (talk) 03:43, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Why not merge it with this list? But please only add the ones with RS. I also think we should focus on creating separate articles about each monument, as long as we are able to retrieve RS.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:58, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

I think we are just saying the same thing with different words? There is no "this list" yet ... I was assuming you wanted to create a separate list, which in my view could be managed/presented technically as a split out of the existing section in the Mormon Battalion article. Or maybe u didn't intend to create a separate list, just focus on articles about individual monuments. Whatever new stuff we do should be linked from there, anyhow, obviously.

About the new Mormon Battalion Monument article, that seems great. I think you should move it right away to, say, Mormon Battalion Monument (San Diego, California) for clarity in naming, because there is already at least one other (the New Mexico one to which you link already), and i think it is better to move something before the DYK goes through. The New Mexico one itself should perhaps be moved to Mormon Battalion Monument (Sandoval County, New Mexico)? Its exact location is not completely clear, i.e. no coordinates so far. The term "M B M" should be a disambiguation page, or should redirect to the section in the M B article, or should redirect to any new list-article, methinks.

Apparently there are two in San Diego, the one I created and another one built in 1940, but I am not sure where it is...It may be at the Mormon Battalion Historic Site, because "A monument to the Mormon Battalion was dedicated in San Diego on 28 January 1940. The visitors’ center was built in the 1960s and reopened in January 2010 after extensive renovations." But this source is unclear.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:47, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh, i see now that it was you who created the Mormon Battalion Monument (New Mexico) article, thanks! It is a good contribution! I successfully found and added coordinates. Then clicking on the coordinates and choosing to view it in MapQuest, which shows county lines, it is confirmed to be in Sandoval County, which I would mildly prefer to have added into its title. It is not terribly far from Santo Domingo Pueblo, but it is not in that. In Google maps, right-clicking and selecting "what's here" yields "W Frontage Rd / Algodones, NM 87001". But Algodones, New Mexico is a CDP, a bit further away than the pueblo, and the monument is not there. So I prefer "Sandoval County, New Mexico" to be reasonably specific, which i prefer mildly over just "New Mexico". --Doncram (talk) 22:13, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Okay, after a few days I will try to look into creating new articles or expanding any coverage. Ping me whenever, after next weekend say, if I seem not properly on the job! :) --Doncram (talk) 21:34, 14 April 2019 (UTC)