Talk:Kyrios

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Thank you for this interesting article. I propose the following alteration:

from

The use of Kyrios in the New Testament has been the subject of debate among modern scholars, and three schools of thought exist on that topic. The first is that based on the Septuagint usage, the designation is intended to assign to Jesus the Old testament attributes of God. The second is that as the early Church expanded, Hellenistic influences resulted in the use of the term. The third is that it is a translation of the Aramaic title Mari applied to Jesus.[2]

to

The use of Kyros in the New Testament can be accredited to the central reason of the evangelists' intention to present Jesus as God because the designation is intended to assign to Jesus the Old testament attributes of God where the term Kyros was already used to refer to him in the Septuagist. The term kyros must have been also a direct translation of an Aramic title that was applied to Jesus because the gospels present live discourses that happened in Aramaic directly translated into Greek. The Aramic title Mari could have been applied to Jesus and subsequently translated into Kyros, the term that Hellenistic culture offered for the purpose of showing an inequality of relationship.

The New testament shows a continuation from the Old and so with the term Kyros. The same term Kyros is used to refer to God all the time in the bible. It is not used to any other man that might have been attributed the term in Hellenistic culture. You don't find it for example in reference to Peter or any one of the Apostles. So it signifies much more then a Hellenistic influence. Alan347 (talk) 08:48, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your last paragraph, but the middle paragraph "selects one of the 3 possibilities" that the reference suggested. Basically there are 3 schools of thought and you have selected one of them, but the reference specifically included your school of thought as well as 2 others.

The last statement: "You don't find it for example in reference to Peter or any one of the Apostles. So it signifies much more then a Hellenistic influence." is a valid and interesting point, and if you have a reference we can add that. History2007 (talk) 14:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I really don't think there are three possibilities. Kyrios refers to God and to Jesus. It is also a translation of an Aramaic term because the conversations happened in Aramaic. The minimal amount of Greek influence is there because of the Greek term. Its not that there are 3 schools of thought or three possibilities, its more an intermixture of 3 causes. Alan347 (talk) 15:40, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

The 3 schools of thought or 3 possibilities was not "my idea", I read it in the Mercer dictionary of the Bible page 521, as referenced in the article. And they probably know more about it than I do. History2007 (talk) 16:37, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

My attempt was aimed at harmonization. Alan347 (talk) 11:43, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The text as it stands is absurd. It mentions "three schools of thought", then explains only one.

Is Kyrios the original of English "Christ"? 99.240.65.32 (talk) 16:12, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

article needs balance and more non-theological cites

every. citation. is. a. theological. source. absurd.

worse, every citation is a Christian one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jytdog (talk • contribs) 02:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Kurios merged into Kyrios, per unanimous consensus. No such user (talk) 14:39, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

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Kyrios → Kyrios (Biblical term) – Currently, there are two wikipedia articles on related concepts: kyrios and kurios. Given that "kyrios" and "kurios" are both acceptable transliterations of the Greek κυριος, the two articles should be better disambiguated. The current state of affairs clearly causes confusion: for instance, I just fixed a link here which seems to have been meant to point at kurios but in fact pointed at kyrios. I have previously had to fix the same problem here. As this article (currently "kyrios") is clearly a subset of kurios, this article should be moved to Kyrios (Biblical term) which not only already redirects to this article, but is what this article is called in the disambiguation hatnote to kurios! Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 21:24, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

N.B. while kyrios is currently a separate article, Kýrios and Κύριος are both redirects to kurios (while Κυριος is a red link!) Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 21:31, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

• Merge these two articles to a single one under either title (I favor Kyrios, but either would work). Both of these articles are about the same Greek word, important because of its use in theology, and I can't parse out any difference in what they are supposed to be covering in that regard, even though the hatnotes claim such a difference. There should be one article, not two, which would solve the disambiguation issue. 64.105.98.115 (talk) 22:06, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
• Leaning to merge this is a bit of a mess and a merge would be best solution. The second article is basically just Christian interpretation, wheras classical Greek and Jewish are in the first one. But really how different are they? Not at all apart from POV. (I also favor Kyrios, but again either would work). In ictu oculi (talk) 08:34, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
• Comment: The reason why I didn't suggest merging is because, though the current state of the articles doesn't exactly make it clear, there are actually two different meanings of the word kyrios at play here, and I think they're sufficiently separate that they should be in different articles. They are:

1. The head of the household in ancient Greece (sort of analagous to the Roman pater familias, I suppose).

2. A biblical euphemism for God or Jesus.

That said, the current state of the articles is so limited that it might be better to merge them together, and split them back out with a disambiguation page if/when the sections on the two meanings improve and expand. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 14:04, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

• Merge per 64.105.98.115. No such user (talk) 10:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
• Merge per the above.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:38, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
• Merge Transliteration of the same Greek term. By the way, the term "κύριος" is still in use in the Modern Greek language and is the equivalent to the English terms "mister" (title conferred on an adult male), "master" (someone who has control over something or someone), and "sir" (an address to any male). For example, the English term "Mr. Smith" is translated to "κύριος Σμίθ" (kyrios Smith) in Greek. And that Greek translation (κύριος Σμιθ) actually gets 38,200 results in a google search and 96 results in googlebooks. Dimadick (talk) 21:12, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.