Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages

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WikiProject Languages (Rated Project-class)
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Etymology of chorisepalaEdit

I have posted a question in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics regarding the etymology of the botanical epithet chorisepala. I would like to have some input from members familiar with ancient Greek. Thanks in advance. Wimpus (talk) 09:50, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Definition of 'Language'Edit

Contributors to this WikiProject may be interested in discussion at Talk:Language#Definition of 'Language'. I think changing the definition warrants input from more editors, but unfortunately don't have time to add much to the discussion right now. Cnilep (talk) 07:48, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Help with Origin of language articleEdit

I need some help from an expert with the Origin of language article. Under the The Romulus and Remus hypothesis section, it says:

1. A genetic mutation that slowed down the Prefrontal Synthesis (PFS) critical period of at least two children that lived together

What is being slowed down? Is it "the Prefrontal Synthesis critical period" or is it "the Prefrontal Cortex critical period"? In the Critical period hypothesis article in WP, it says "Recently, it has been suggested that if a critical period [in language development] does exist, it may be due at least partially to the delayed development of the prefrontal cortex in human children." I can't find any reference to "slowing down" the Prefrontal Synthesis critical period or even what a PFS critical period is. It seems to me that the original author may have entered Synthesis when they meant to say Cortex.

Could someone explain what critical period applies to Prefrontal Synthesis and how it may be "slowed down"? Or maybe revise the indented sentence above, removing "slowed down" and substituting, say, "delayed the development of the Prefrontal Synthesis (or Cortex) critical period...". You might have to explain how the PFC affects the PFS. My guess is that the article is technically right but they just don't explain enough for us linguistic novices.

This question is also on the talk page of the Origin of language article. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 20:28, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Undeciphered -k language of ancient Yemen same language as Himyaritic language?Edit

The article Undeciphered -k language of ancient Yemen seems to say that its subject has been identified as Himyaritic, an unclassified ancient Semitic language. But if that's the case, then Undeciphered -k language of ancient Yemen (which has a Glottolog code, but no ISO code) should probably be merged into Himyaritic language (which has a Linguist List code, but no Glottolog or ISO code, apparently). In fact, the literature at Glottolog also implies that the mystery language is the same as Himyaritic. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:19, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

@Florian Blaschke: I am not quite sure if these two are the same language, but they clearly belong to the same thread of research. But since it is controversial whether the Undeciphered -k language of ancient Yemen actually represents a language distinct from Sabaic or not (see Stein 2008, who even considers Himyaritic as a late form of Sabaic), having a standalone article is not NPOV. So arguably, Sabaic language might also be a legitimate merge target. –Austronesier (talk) 15:57, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

New bot to remove completed infobox requestsEdit

Hello! I have recently created a bot to remove completed infobox requests and am sending this message to WikiProject Languages since the project currently has a backlogged infobox request category. Details about the task can be found at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/PearBOT 2, but in short it removes all infobox requests from articles with an infobox, once a week. To sign up, reply with {{ping|Trialpears}} and tell me if any special considerations are required for the Wikiproject. For example: if only a specific infobox should be detected, such as {{infobox journal}} for WikiProject Academic Journals; or if an irregularly named infobox such as {{starbox begin}} should be detected. Feel free to ask if you have any questions!

Sent on behalf of Trialpears (talk) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:34, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Fur languages#Proposed redirect to Fur languageEdit

  You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Fur languages#Proposed redirect to Fur language. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:08, 19 December 2019 (UTC)


User: has relatively sophisticatedly vandalized two articles two days apart, so might need to be kept an eye on. — kwami (talk) 10:59, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

@kwami: Looks like the same as this one. –Austronesier (talk) 13:39, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Yes, this is a long-term abuser. Their MO is to make unconstructive yet not blatantly disruptive edits to the phonologies of Asian languages with empty, canned, or nonsensical summaries. Wonder what their endgame is. (Just to be a jerk?) Nardog (talk) 14:07, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Can someone review (talk)'s edits to Historical Chinese phonology? I'm beginning to think this may not be entirely in bad faith (with serious WP:COMPETENCE issues nonetheless). Nardog (talk) 12:50, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nardog: Here's the full diff. I can't see any major harm, nor any real improvement. The back-and-forth editing is still disruptive. I'll rv for the last two reasons. –Austronesier (talk) 18:17, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
I'd revert them by default because of their history of disruptive editing. If someone sees that revert and it turns out to be unjustified, that's great. If not, that's too bad. We shouldn't have to clean up after that guy. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 21:56, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Request for citations for phonetic symbols for Unicode submissionEdit

Hi. I'm opening a discussion at WikiProject Linguistics here for additional phonetic symbols to request from Unicode. They're looking for evidence of use, not just wish lists. If you need Unicode support for some symbol, or come across something unusual in the lit, please give a citation there. Kirk (talk) 22:03, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Infobox requestEdit

I'd like to request an infobox for proto-languages (Template:Infobox proto-language). We can base it off Template:Infobox language family. — Sagotreespirit (talk) 07:35, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Not sure if we really need one. Not that I think that "infoboxes must burn in hell"; they are useful as a bird's-eye view of uncontroversial information, and also serve as tonsils (see the hist of Vasconic languages and you'll see what I mean). But for proto-languages, I can see little advantages and a number of disadvantages. Hierarchically, every proto-language article is just a subtopic of a language family article, which has its own infobox. There is little information about a proto-language that isn't mentioned there anyway. Duplicating info would lead to the usual problems of content-forking, especially synchronizing content. We have an article Proto-Altaic language about a proto-language that many believe is a spurios reconstruction, but yet quite a number still think is a valid concept. The infobox of Altaic languages is subject to endless back-and-forth editing just about the "acceptance"-parameter. A potential proto-language infobox certainly should also have that paramater. Who wants to maintain it for Proto-Altaic language or Proto-Dené–Caucasian language?
Some information genuinely pertains to the proto-language, such as homeland proposals and hypothesized connections to archeological cultures or haplogroups. However, as a rule, such hypotheses are far too complex and often too controversial for a bird's-eye view. All-in-all: Mild oppose.–Austronesier (talk) 10:39, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Whether an infobox should be included has nothing to do with whether the proto-language or family is valid or not. Template:Infobox language family is also used for Altaic languages. — Sagotreespirit (talk) 03:18, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
@Sagotreespirit: That's not my point. It's about the question of what kind of meaningful info we want to convey via an infobox. The overall acceptance is a very important piece of information for a language family, which also applies to its reconstructed ancestor. It's shouldn't be missing. I'd rather miss the nice colors. –Austronesier (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Makes sense then. — Sagotreespirit (talk) 08:17, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Proto-language articles can use the generic {{infobox language}} (the way Proto-Inuit language does). Most articles in Category:Proto-languages, however, appear not to be using any infoxes, possibly because of concerns like those raised by Austronesier. – Uanfala (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Finno-Basque languagesEdit

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived: Resolved, moved to draft space (Draft:Finno-Basque languages)
Hi all! The article Finno-Basque languages (created 6 Feb 2020) needs some communitiy attention. While we have several articles about remote, dubious and absurd relationship claims, this article has major problems with sourcing and neutrality. The page creator is very insistent about the validity of the proposal. I don't want to EW there, so for now I just leave the appropriate tags. –Austronesier (talk) 11:41, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

See topic at Wiki:LinguisticsEdit

FYI, see this proposal. --SynConlanger (talk) 09:16, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

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