Talk:Kristi Noem

Affair with Corey Lewandowski

Published reports on 9/15/2023 suggest that she has been having a longstanding affair with Corey Lewandowski. This is significant because she portrays herself as a family values politician and because it might affect a decision to nominate her as Trump's VP running mate in 2024. This should be added. 24.151.28.29 (talk) 18:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I'll be honest, I thought this was just a joke and I was about to revert - but whoa, this seems to actually be a thing. Per Wiki policy of course we'll have to wait for more reliable sources to come out before adding it to the article though, as it seems only non-reliable and deprecated ones have published it so far. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 18:36, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

This story is being extensively reported on. It’s in UpRoxx, Marca, Queerty, and Vanity Fair, among others. Time to add. —2601:8C0:A83:87F0:1C49:C788:A9E3:F168 (talk) 04:13, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

This other stories all sourced from the same tabloid sources, Daily Mail and NYP. These stories specifically refer to them as tabloids. These are not acceptable sources. Not sure why this isn't super clear and is being discussed. Helpingtoclarify (talk) 04:08, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

looks like MEAWW and Raw Story picked it up too. 2601:8C0:A83:87F0:1C49:C788:A9E3:F168 (talk) 04:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

This is definitely relevant for reasons already stated. The Lincoln Project has a short piece of it today (6 hours ago), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP4dN8-Ci40, contrasting "portrayal" vs "actuality" or "alternative facts" vs "facts" of both these people. KREX68 (talk) 04:52, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

It's relevant, but so far it's only the Daily Mail, all other sources are just re-reporting their story. I would wait until a better source comes out with its own story, or at least until one good source independently confirms it. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:46, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, only rags seem to be covering it so far. If it turns out to be verifiable, I'm confident every perennially reliable source will be on it right away. We can hold out til then. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 19:43, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Even if the claim is not solid enough to be made in wikivoice, the fact that it was alleged publicly has garnered significant media attention, and thus warrants inclusion. Peter L Griffin (talk) 03:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

You are not correct. This is not following WP policy to include allegations from a tabloid deemed not reliable. Helpingtoclarify (talk) 01:13, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

It has been covered by sources other than what you dismiss as tabloids and attributed to those tabloids. Peter L Griffin (talk) 01:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@Peter L Griffin: - what are the most reliable sources reporting this story? starship.paint (RUN) 02:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

A quick search turns up CNN [1] and Washington Post [2] to name a few. Reliable local SD news outlets were also sourced at this page before someone removed them.

My claim is not so much that the rumors are definitely true but that the rumors are inherently noteworthy for inclusion as an attributed claim as a result of having been covered prominently. Peter L Griffin (talk) 05:47, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Vanity Fair too [3] Peter L Griffin (talk) 05:49, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Politico [4] Peter L Griffin (talk) 05:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

As for local:

South Dakota Searchlight [5] and Sioux Falls Live [6] Peter L Griffin (talk) 05:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@Peter L Griffin: - CNN, Washington Post and Politico are good national-level sources, I would use those. Vanity Fair is a bit iffy, it's reliable for popculture, but personally I'd say it's less WP:DUE for politics. The Searchlight opinion article is unusable. CNBC also reported on it. starship.paint (RUN) 07:03, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Article is in terrible shape

Came here to learn about how Noem treats animals, only to find massive amounts of irrelevant material. Viriditas (talk) 23:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

This article is wrong. The dog didnt bite her. That not what her book claimed. The chickens werent her families either. They belonged to someone else 2603:9000:C204:F112:B534:6D5D:A282:CDCE (talk) 01:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Clarified the chickens part -> After the hunt, when Noem visited a local family, Cricket escaped Noem's vehicle and killed several of the local family's chickens and the bite part Noem grabbed Cricket, it "whipped around to bite" her. starship.paint (RUN) 03:30, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Killing of domesticated animals

Noem has admitted in her self authored book to killing both a 15 month old puppy and a family pet goat because they were "untrainable" and "aggressive". Noem also admits not training either animal. 2604:2D80:5907:C400:70A9:ECC0:8DE4:ACBB (talk) 01:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

More heat than light. starship.paint (RUN) 06:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Well, the good news is we can now envision what Trumpcare will look like in the near future. Instead of paying for prescription medicine, they will just send a van to your house to take you to the gravel pits. The political party iconography is all wrong. The GOP should be represented by Yosemite Sam, not an elephant, and the Democratic Party should get rid of the donkey and use Bugs Bunny instead. It all makes sense when you see it this way. Viriditas (talk) 02:16, 27 April 2024 (UTC) Edited title to be within WP:BLP. Content is in Kristi Noem#Personal life and has several reliable sources. starship.paint (RUN) 03:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC) Thank you. 2604:2D80:5907:C400:219A:5C99:5E0C:F44B (talk) 14:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC) Can you people control your blatant bias for one second? What does that entire paragraph of mindless rambling babbling gibberish have to do with the governor? What did that accomplish? You could have gotten some sweet sweet upvotes on reddit with that patrisan hackery, but instead you chose to screech into the void here. Feel better? All 160,000(!!!) of your edits should be suspect. And do we really need two paragraphs about the governor putting down dangerous animals? Apparently none of you have ever lived on a farm, and I don't need any of your totally completely 100% true anecdotes about how oh yes you do live on a farm and how you never ever would blah blah blah... OKThatsTerrific (talk) 04:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC) There's something to be said for living on a farm in 1824 and treating animals a certain way. But the thing of it is, and people certainly need reminders for some reason, here we are in 2024, not 1824, and the way we treat animals now in this century is entirely different than the way we treated them then. Not exactly sure why this needs to be explained. Of course, this is one of the major problems with the conservative ideology. Things change over time, whether you accept it or not. In 1824, people treated animals terribly because it was believed by mainstream "science" of the time that they were not conscious like humans, and did not deserve rights of any kind as they were comparable to machines. Mainstream science no longer subscribes to this erroneous view. This is one of many reasons why we treat animals differently today and why there are so many alternatives to outright killing them, such as sending them to animal sanctuaries, where they can live out their lives. There are many philosophers and thinkers who have addressed these ideas. Oddly, it was Hubert Humphrey, the 38th Vice President of the United States, who said, just a year before he died, "The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped." One could argue that Noem's treatment of animals falls under this kind of scrutiny. Viriditas (talk) 06:02, 27 April 2024 (UTC) Thanks for five notifications emails in the middle of the night because you couldn't collect your predictably irrelevant meandering thoughts all at once. Try a notepad app or some scratch paper. Paragraphs are a nifty construct as well. You don't need to reply to this. You've not said anything worth reading. Ever. Now that I'm awake, I think I might make a bacon cheeseburger. Don't worry, Gov. Noem didn't kill the cow or pig. OKThatsTerrific (talk) 06:25, 27 April 2024 (UTC) Noem said she intentionally killed her puppy (and a goat) because, quote, she "hated" the animals. She was criticized by fellow members of the GOP Rick Wilson and Denver Riggleman for what they described as "deliberately cruel" behavior and for "bragging" about how poorly she treats animals. Viriditas (talk) 06:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC) You seem like you would be great fun at a party. 2604:2D80:5907:C400:219A:5C99:5E0C:F44B (talk) 02:29, 28 April 2024 (UTC) It speaks to her character, don't you think? George Mucus (talk) 07:48, 27 April 2024 (UTC) It speaks more to the character of the people who think a 400-word essay in an already overly-bloated article is necessary when one sentence would do: "In a forthcoming book excerpted by The Guardian, Noem acknowledged putting down a dangerous dog that killed a neighbor's chickens and an aggressive goat that attacked her children." Did we really need a link to the page on gravel pits? Good lord. Also note her name is Noem, not Norm, an embarrassing error I can't be bothered to fix because I'll be tempted to delete the whole wall of text and replace it with the sentence I just suggested only to have one of you perpetually-online hall monitors revert it, assuming you can take time away from vehemently protecting Katherine Maher's sanitized page. Anyway, my main complaint was about the length, not the content. My secondary complaint was the blatant bias shown by the maundering comments here. I don't see any pearl-clutching about those poor murdered chickens #PoultryLivesMatter OKThatsTerrific (talk) 21:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC) The content is WP:DUE, we have several reliable sources - Reuters, Associated Press, Guardian, New York Times, BBC, NBC, CNN… This is a story written by Noem herself that she wanted to broadcast to the world, so it’s relevant. She’s also essentially confirmed it by directly responding to the Guardian… Also if you think that this story is truly a nothingburger then reading about it can’t hurt Noem, right? starship.paint (RUN) 08:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC) It's her own publicity. She obviously feels that anecdotes about shooting puppies and pet goats in gravel pits will go down well with GOP voters - maybe it will. Of course WP should cover this. US politics has become completely insane. --Ef80 (talk) 14:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC) If you think "because I live on a farm" is a good enough reason to kill a dog that could easily be rehomed, then you're just as much of a (Redacted) as she is GustyGores (talk) 19:55, 27 April 2024 (UTC) Redacted unacceptable personal attack. starship.paint (RUN) 01:36, 28 April 2024 (UTC) GustyGores, this kind of thought process is common to Christian conservatives in the US and has a sad, but fascinating backstory, and it's one I've been writing about here and there for decades. Basically, this kind of thinking is rooted in Christian Dominionism, and since the 1950s, it has transcended religious morality to become a tenet of late stage capitalism frequently found in free market fundamentlist rhetoric. The pseduo-pastoralism of "because I live on a farm" is, for those who aren't aware of it, a kind of dog whistle in American politics that divides those of us in cities with rural folk. Viriditas (talk) 20:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC) "I live on a farm" does have some validity. Having lived both on farms and in cities, the different experiences of each location can really shape someone's experiences. Guns, for example. Someone who's spent their whole life in the city won't understand that you really do need a gun like the AR15 to deal with feral pig encroachment or coyote attacks. Someone who's spent their whole life in a city, meanwhile, won't understand the fear of going to a crowded school or shopping district soon after a highly publicized shooting. I get that "I live on a farm" is becoming kind of a dog whistle, but I think we need to understand what they're trying to say and talk to those that are genuinely wanting to engage in good faith. I hate to sound like a centrist - I have principles, after all - but there's often a solution in the middle that both sides of the political spectrum can live with. It won't be what they want and it won't be what we want, but the policy will at least function and we won't have to go to war with one another over it. :) George Mucus (talk) 01:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Family farm

It's odd that Noem and her defenders like to talk up her "farm", but there is little to nothing said about it here except that her father died there. It was apparently a 9,700-acre ranch that Noem inherited. She received more than $4 million in government subsidies for the ranch before she "cashed out" in 2017 so it isn't even clear that the claims about her running a "farm" where she killed her dog and goat are even true. ("Between 1995 and 2016, her family-owned Racota Valley Ranch in Hazel, S.D. cashed $3,704,415 million in government farm subsidies. In 2012 alone, they accepted $232,707 in subsidies.") I wonder what South Dakota taxpayers would think about the millions Noem received in a state where the minimum wage is $11.20 per hour. For what it is worth, it appears that Noem is on record as being against subsidies for anyone other than herself. Once again, the same story plays out: socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. Viriditas (talk) 20:47, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Multiple legal experts have poked holes in Noem's story about her farm and the IRS.[7] Viriditas (talk) 21:06, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

These statements, in order for them to be considered for inclusion in this article, must be backed by specific Reliable sources. Also, Moral opinions may not be helpful for factual discussion. Wikipedia is for neutral factual information (WP:NPOV), as much as possible. RogerYg (talk) 22:47, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Needs to be clarification on different sections

The Article is broken into different sections after the intro. First listing Early life and Education, then listing South Dakota House of Representatives, and U.S. House of Representatives. In the later, sub sections of dates representing those elections are listed. Then another sub section of Tenure is listed. After a detailed account of her tenure there are listed topics such as Abortion, Energy and environment, Foreign Affairs, etc. With a an explanation of her stance on each.

The same is repeated for Governor of South Dakota.

It would make more sense to have another sub-section each after under Tenure, such as "Platforms", "Stances", "Bills Voted On", or even "Controversies".

Sorry if this is the wrong place to list this and obvious lack of knowledge of Wikipedia nomenclature regarding structure. 2604:2D80:5907:C400:219A:5C99:5E0C:F44B (talk) 00:42, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

I would argue that the recent dog killing incident deserves its own section

This incident seems much more relevant than others that have a dedicated section. Including Conflict of interest action to professionally benefit daughter, Fireworks at Mount Rushmore lawsuit, Governor's mansion spending, "Meth. We're on It" campaign and others. While all sections have seemingly shaped her stances and gave insight to character, this appears to be defining a part of her career and possibly losing the chance at a VP nod. Obviously if it doesn't revisions can be made then but for now it seems to be very much front facing in all media. 2604:2D80:5907:C400:F9F1:AFC5:3BDC:B240 (talk) 00:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the significant and widespread media coverage of the "Dog Killing incident", it can no longer be just a detail in the Personal life section, and deserves a new section, or sub-section along with other related issues from her book, such as goat killings. Given the significant WP:RS sources, this is the most reported story on Kristi Noem, and hence needs a brief mention in the lead. RogerYg (talk) 05:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

As per the discussion, a sub-section within "Personal life" section, as Dog shooting incident has been added. Since, it broadly falls more under Personal life, as compared to other major sections sections on Career. RogerYg (talk) 06:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, this incident has caused the third highest page views of this article during its lifetime. [8] starship.paint (RUN) 08:36, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Brief mention in Lead, including the overall context of Farm life, along with her autobiographies:

Living in rural South Dakota, Noem is also a farmer and a rancher.[2] Noem published first autobiography, Not My First Rodeo: Lessons from the Heartland in 2022.[3] Later in 2024, in her second autobiography, No Going Back, Noem mentioned about an incident involving shooting her untrainable dog [2][4] and defended it as a "tough decision".[4][5]

Please discuss here for any relevant updates to the brief lead mention. RogerYg (talk)

Changed to Noem reportedly discussed killing her "untrainable" 14-month old dog that she "hated", while publicly defending her action as being that of a "responsible owner". (1) "reportedly" because the book chapter has not been publicly released yet, this is the Guardian's reporting. (2) changed "tough decision" because it was vague, perhaps "responsible owner" is more descriptive. (3) provided age of dog and feeling towards dog. starship.paint (RUN) 08:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

"age" of dog and "feeling towards dog" are probably details not neccecary in the lead. They are mentioned in the body.. "Hated" is a strong word for lead.

We need to make lead more neutral to avoid frequent edits & reverts in the lead by different editors RogerYg (talk) 08:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@RogerYg: - I respect your input and have changed the lede accordingly to remove "hated", I still feel that the age of the dog is needed to clarify that this is not an old dog that needed euthanasia from old age. Noem reportedly discussed killing her aggressive and "untrainable" 14-month old dog, while publicly defending her action as being that of a "responsible owner". starship.paint (RUN) 08:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, looks fine for now. RogerYg (talk) 08:56, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I think we need to mention briefly about the criticism, when including her defence Updated with neutral language:

Responding to the criticism, Noem defended it as a tough decision of a "responsible owner". RogerYg (talk) 09:17, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

The initial coverage was based only on the Guardian's report of her disclosure. It may be heavily covered, but all of the sources that detail the story are based on the Guardian report. The book is out on Tuesday and we can edit accordingly; its publication will generate more coverage.JSFarman (talk) 17:33, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, okay with above. starship.paint (RUN) 01:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

As per WP:RS sources, "Untrainable" is Noem's opinion and not factual enough to include in lead.

Also, as it was currently stated in the lead, it was not clear whether it was Noem's opinion or fact. Therefore, it had be deleted, or re-stated in different language RogerYg (talk) 06:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Restated to clarify that these are Noem's opinions: "responsible owner" and "untrainable." Noem recounted an incident in which she shot and killed her young dog that seemed "untrainable".[4][5] Responding to widespread criticism, Noem argued that she was a "responsible owner" who made a tough decision.[6][5] RogerYg (talk) 06:46, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

OK. starship.paint (RUN) 06:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Cricket story placement

Cpotisch (talk · contribs) has made the decision to move the Cricket story from the "personal life" section to the "guns" section under her gubernatorial tenure. This to me seems very misguided. Yes, the story does involve a gun but it has nothing to do with her positions or actions on gun rights as a governor. If anything it would be more relevant to animal rights, but I don't see it as being really related to her governorship at all. 203.211.79.75 (talk) 05:32, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Agree with your argument, its not about Gun rights. RogerYg (talk) 05:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, restored in personal life. starship.paint (RUN) 08:26, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Suggested Edit: Add that she shot her goat twice in the gravel pit

In the article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristi_Noem#No_Going_Back it states that Governor Noem decided to kill her goat. However according to the sources listed she then took her goat to the gravel pit where she shot her dog and shot her goat twice as well. Seems prurient to add that she followed through on her decision. 2601:2C3:800:B080:94FC:772:A71D:F5B8 (talk) 19:09, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

OK. Someone else already added two shots, I added the location. starship.paint (RUN) 06:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)