Talk:Khalistan Liberation Force

NPOV

The article is not neutral - this much is obvious

This article is perfectly fine as it is. Wonderful article. Thank you Wikipedia.

I Think its obvious from the article that it is NOT neutral.Please become a wikipedia user first.

And i would request you to please not change some one else's contributuion on the talk page.if you really wish to say something please go ahead without trying to change what I feel....

Neutral Point of View

I have added the notice because this article is clearly biased in favor of the KLF. This actually does a disservice to the organization. By being so outrageously unbalanced, speaking of "brave fighters" and "martyrs," it is instantly clear that this piece, as it now stands, is mere propaganda, and not objective reportage. The result is that it is no more convincing than if some opponent were to rewrite it calling the KLF "cowardly murderers and demonic scourge of mankind."

If the group has a case, then stating the facts - without the rhetoric - would garner more support than cheerleading posing as objective information. B00P 09:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110218180829/http://www.sikhsangat.org:80/2009/07/dera-sirsa-follower-who-attacked-sikhs-shot-dead/ to http://www.sikhsangat.org/2009/07/dera-sirsa-follower-who-attacked-sikhs-shot-dead/

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Johal

@Abecedare here we can discuss adding Johal’s attacks to this page. :) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 12:01, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Poor sources in article

Recently CanadianSingh1469 has expanded the article to add several attacks by the designated terrorist organization, KLF. As discussed at this related AFD, I am concerned about the quality of sources used. Example:

1. ਖਾੜਕੂ ਯੋਧੇ (Kharku Yudhe ie, Militant warrior), Maninder Singh Baja
   • Non-RS martyr literature; unknown author; generic publisher; no reviews or library holdings.
2. Kharku Yodhe - 2, Maninder Singh Baja
   • Volume 2 by same author. Same concerns.
3. Taksal, Ranjit Singh Damdami (2017-06-30), History of Shaheed Bhai Major Singh Johal Alias Pala, Khalistan Liberation Force. Writer - Ranjit Singh Student Damdami Taksal, Sikh Youth Federation Bhindranwala., retrieved 2023-07-01 Publsiher Fatehnama
   • Another piece of martyr literature. This time a magazine article by a youth activist uploaded on Flikr.
   • To give you an idea of what kind of work this is, here is how the article ends (rough translation), So, the martyrdom of Bhai Major Singh Johal Pala is a beacon of light for the nation and a source of inspiration for the youth and we pay our respects to the martyrdom of Bhai Major Singh Johal alias Pala, a militant warrior who sacrificed himself for the achievement of an independent state of Khalistan. To get more information about this family and the national martye, the devotees can contact the number 88...
   • Also per the article, the list of attacks are claims taken from a secret personal diary kept by Major Singh Johal, and not verified attacks or killings.
4. Singh, Harjinder (2008). Game of Love. Akaal Publishers. p. 226. ISBN 978-0-9554587-1-2.
   • Essentially self-published (Harjinder Singh is the lead author of the "not-for-profit publishing company, which is made up of a dedicated group of volunteers"); no reviews; minimal library holdings.
   • The cited chapter is "Warrior Saints" and has content such as Bhai Gurjant Singh and his associates left the police station at 7:30 am with such calmness and braveness, no police official had the courage to even follow the Singh's after they left... He put many oppressors to justice and worked with Bhai Jarnail Singh Halvara (Sant Longowal assassin), ... Budhsinghvala also seriously injured the following oppressors... Other prominent successes of Bhai Sahib were the Punjab Congress Vice President Lala Bhagvan Das who was eliminated along with his bodyguards at Jaito, ex-treasurer Balwant Singh was eliminated... The son of S.S.P. Des Raaj Sharma of Tarn Taran was kidnapped...

That's just a small sample of the type of content and sources added. All the contributions will need to be reviewed and cleaned-up. Abecedare (talk) 12:40, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

They can all easily be cleared. The Johal discussion can be done above. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 12:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I am concerned that you copied over the content and sources over here even after issues with such sourcing was raised at the AFD. Abecedare (talk) 13:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I copied over the Ajit source here and others. The content I had added prior to that. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 13:13, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I didn’t add anything from those sources after the AFD discussion. I had added it all before that and before the Johal page. I just added Ajit and a few others sources afterwards. I have removed those unreliable sources I used prior to any discussion. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 13:15, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

@Abecedare How is it now? I am going to do a little bit more cleanup. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 13:12, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I think I am done all the cleanup. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 13:21, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I still see several non-RS sources still cited including Game of love mentioned above. I would also like to take a look at the cited articles from Ajit. Can you tell through which archival database they can be accessed? Abecedare (talk) 13:33, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I am on mobile so I am struggling to remove them all. I will do it. I think I told you previously, but I/my family has physical copies of Ajit, and other old Punjabi newspapers. That is how I got them.

Also on Harjinder Singh the author of Game of Love he writes, “I have a BA (Hons) from Warwick University and a MSc from Aston Business School. I work full-time in tutoring Gurmukhi (Sikh Scriptures).” I think this makes him a little more reliable. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 13:37, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I have posted a request at WP:REX for a copy of the Johal article in Ajit, and asked if the older issues of the newspaper are archived. Abecedare (talk) 14:05, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Okay CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:17, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

It might be good to ask on Reddit or something for old newspapers of Ajit. I will try to upload a what I currently have online if I get the chance. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

@Abecedare So, do you agree with adding all the actions of Major Singh Johal to the activities section with Ajit as the source? Some are already added. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 15:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

No. It appears that the old issues of Ajit from the period are not archived by any institution and if that is the case (please let me know if it isn't), then the newspaper articles cannot be used as sources on wikipedia since that would fail verifiability. Abecedare (talk) 15:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

A quote from WP:SOURCEACCESS

“Do not reject reliable sources just because they are difficult or costly to access. Some reliable sources are not easily accessible. For example, an online source may require payment, and a print-only source may be available only through libraries. Rare historical sources may even be available only in special museum collections and archives. If you have trouble accessing a source, others may be able to do so on your behalf (see WikiProject Resource Exchange).” CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:05, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

@Abecedare I can provide extracts from the source which would meet verifiability. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:14, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you could email me a scan of the Johal article in Ajit, ie, "ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਲਿਬਰੇਸ਼ਨ ਫੋਰਸ ਦੇ ਖਾੜਕੂ ਮੇਜਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੌਹਲ ਪਾਲਾ ਨੇ ਸਾਇਨਾਈਡ ਨਾਲ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰਿਆ"". Ajit. 15 May 1991. pp. 3–4. Abecedare (talk) 16:18, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I don’t have a scanner. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:19, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Can you take (legible) photos of the article? Abecedare (talk) 16:21, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I can take photos. It may take me some time to get it to you, since I am a little busy and I would have to go to my grandparents’ place to take photos. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:23, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

In the mean time I assume I can add the information, right? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:24, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Also what’s your email? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

We can exchange email address by you sending me an email though Special:EmailUser/Abecedare; you may need to enable your email on wikipedia in order to do so. No rush to send the scans but do not add the (currently disputed) source here or anywhere else on wikipedia in the meantime. Btw if you are planning to use a smartphone to take the snaps PDF scanning apps such as the free Microsoft Office Lens can be very helpful. Abecedare (talk) 16:32, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks I will do that

You said,

“…do not add the (currently disputed) source here or anywhere else on wikipedia in the meantime.”

Is the verifiability what is disputed or is it the reliability? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 16:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Potentially both. And WP:DUE. Really depends upon what the source actually says and what statements in wikipedia articles it is being used as a citation for. Abecedare (talk) 19:00, 10 July 2023 (UTC)