Talk:John Noakes

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In a way it doesn't come as a huge surprise that some TV presenter's screen personas were an act, although John Noakes wasn't necessarily the first person many people would have suspected this about. What exactly were his surprisingly bitter comments? PatGallacher 23:19, 2005 August 3 (UTC)

I've added a "Citation Needed" - JonRB (talk) 09:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: "What exactly were his surprisingly bitter comments?" I can't recall the name of the publication, but I distinctly remember reading an interview with Noakes in a UK "teen mag" round about 1984 where he asserted that Biddy Baxter had forced him to 'stuff up' (fail at) his cookery efforts on the Blue Peter show so as to not 'put off' the kids who were watching. Noakes was much more competent in the kitchen than he appeared to be on the show, he claimed in the interview: and that pissed him off. Sounds like there was quite a history of discontent regarding Baxter's direction, for Noakes.

Skip

Wasn't Skip actually a son of Shep? 82.45.84.50 (talk) 21:50, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Dog food commercials

This addition, by an anon ip editor, says this:

"Noakes appeared in a series of dog food TV commercials using a dog that was indistinguishable from Shep, but named 'Skip'. The subterfuge led to a deeper rift between him and the Blue Peter editor Biddy Baxter. Peter Purves later reported that Noakes refuses to speak with Baxter. Noakes himself called her a "stupid woman" in a televised documentary to celebrate the show's 50th anniversary in 2008."

I have now reverted four times as the Daily Mail is not considered a WP:RS. If no reliable source can be found, it will have to be removed for a fifth time. WP:3RR does not apply as a reliable source has not been supplied. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I've removed it again. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

References

His real name and parents

How certain are we that his parents names Frank Bottomley and Nellie Longbottom are correct? http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/15315656.Obituary___John_Noakes__popular_presenter_of_Blue_Peter_in_the_1960s_and_70s/ gives his parents names as Arthur and Sallie, as does http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174614/The-secret-family-rift-Blue-Peter-daredevil-John-Noakes-Painful-separation-parents-spurred-children-s-TV-star-risky-escapades-famous.html. There is a Sallie Bottomley marrying Alfred Noakes in 1947 https://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_marriages-and-divorces?lastname=noakes&spousefirstname=sallie&spouselastname=bottomley and there is an Arthur Bottomley marrying a Sallie Hampson in 1933 https://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_marriages-and-divorces?firstname=sallie&firstname_variants=true&spousefirstname=arthur&spouselastname=bottomley with a John W Bottomley being born in 1934 https://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_births-and-baptisms?firstname=john&firstname_variants=true&lastname=bottomley&mothersmaidenname=hampson. The "John W Bottomley" ties in with info in http://www.famechain.com/family-tree/33235/john-noakes

I wonder which chain of records, mine or the one already in Wikipedia, is the correct one.

Just found this https://www.geni.com/people/Arthur-Bottomley/6000000035224241927 which strengthens details that I have mentioned: Father's name, fact that we was a Freemason.

I totally agree with you that the wrong birth record and parents appears to have been used here. I have found his 1939 register entry which shows him living with Arthur and Sallie Bottomley, and clearly shows his and his mother's surname has been changed at a later point to Noakes. http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=tna%2fr39%2f3705%2f3705g%2f015&parentid=tna%2fr39%2f3705%2f3705g%2f015%2f30 149.254.51.123 (talk) 21:38, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

It's problematic that the only apparent WP:RS for this birth name is The Herald. I'm not sure if your research counts as WP:OR. If this is a fact, should the opening sentence read: "John Noakes (born John A. Bottomley, 6 March 1934 – 28 May 2017) ..."? The Herald article gives only "John Bottomley", with no middle initial. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:57, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

I believe he was actually born John W Bottomley to parents Arthur Wallace Bottomley and Sallie Hinchcliffe Bottomley nee Hampson. John A Bottomley just happens to be born in the same quarter of 1934 and in the same registration district as John W Bottomley. It can also be shown that there is a marriage of a Sallie Bottomley to an Alfred S Noakes, but not any possible marriage within England and Wales of a Nellie Bottomley to one. I'm not experienced enough with wikipedia to know how this should be sourced (or even if it should be), but I'm fairly confident that we have incorrect information here at the moment, and also fairly confident that the person who started this discussion has found the correct details. Perhaps the freebmd links could help? Sallie's marriage to Alfred Noakes is at the following link and it can be seen she was registered under two surnames (usually indicating a previous marriage https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?start=1947&end=1947&sq=1&eq=1&type=Marriages&vol=5c&pgno=2583&db=bmd_1494280030&jsexec=1&mono=0&v=MTQ5NjA5NTcwNTo2MzU1OGZmYjIyNDM4YTJmNWY4ODg3MjEwNzRkMDIwMTEzM2JiNzA3&searchdef=type%3DMarriages%26sq%3D1%26surname%3DNoakes%26db%3Dbmd_1494280030%26given%3DAlfred%26eq%3D4&action=Find

149.254.51.123 (talk) 22:10, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Just to add that this is what I believe to be his birth record, showing his mother's maiden name to have been Hampson, one of the surnames that Sallie's marriage to Alfred Noakes was registered under. https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?start=1934&end=1934&sq=2&eq=2&type=Births&vol=9a&pgno=510&db=bmd_1494280030&jsexec=1&mono=0&v=MTQ5NjA5NTkxMjowNGZhNzhlZjZlODk2MWU1ZGQyNzRmYTEwY2YyNDM2NDFiODQzZjgy&searchdef=type%3DBirths%26end%3D1934%26sq%3D1%26eq%3D4%26start%3D1934%26given%3DJohn%26surname%3DBottomley%26db%3Dbmd_1494280030&action=Find

and this page shows the marriage of Arthur W Bottomley and Sallie H Hampson in 1933 https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?start=1933&end=1933&sq=3&eq=3&type=Marriages&vol=9a&pgno=1178&db=bmd_1494280030&jsexec=1&mono=0&v=MTQ5NjA5NjA1NDoyMjBmMzI4MTFmYzhlN2M4ZjJhMzgzZWQyZjQyYzkwODhmZWU3Yjlj&searchdef=type%3DMarriages%26eq%3D4%26surname%3DBottomley%26db%3Dbmd_1494280030%26sq%3D1%26given%3DArthur%2520W&action=Find 149.254.51.123 (talk) 22:15, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the research, but a secondary source would probably be required to add a middle initial. Perhaps someone will write a biography. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:37, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I've just cited his ODNB entry, published 6 months ago, which clears this all up and confirms the above research. It also shows most of his obits are wrong about his birthplace; while Shelf was where his parents lived, he was actually born in a hospital in Halifax. Crisso (talk) 19:06, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the update, Crisso. So when you say "Shelf was where his parents lived", that still was actually where his home was, at least until the age of 9? Do we know where his grandmother lived? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

No problem. I would assume that he lived there with his parents until he went to live with his grandmother but haven't seen anything to confirm that for definite. Neither is it clear exactly where he lived with his GM from the age of 9. Crisso (talk) 11:25, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, the ODNB entry says: "At the time of his birth registration the family lived at 6 Sun Wood Avenue, Shelf, an industrial village between Bradford and Halifax. His parents’ marriage broke down when he was nine.... John Noakes was educated at Shelf Council School and Rishworth School, a charitable foundation dating from 1724, where he was the rebel of Remove B, the class for academic underachievers." So I think some mention of Shelf is justified. You could still argue that he was "from Shelf" rather than "from Halifax"? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:32, 31 July 2021 (UTC) p.s. John's step-dad trumpeter Alfie Noakes was part of the Lew Stone band and is mentioned at My Woman (1932 song).

Free marketing for commercial website

I'm a bit concerned about the references on the front page to the findmypast website and in particular the presence of several (not just one) link to their sites sign-in page. This is a commercial website for those wishing to trace family history. It is certainly useful research tool, but the presence of a record on the site does not prove it's validity with resepect to individuals - living or dead. I respectfully suggest that these references be removed as they constitute the results of original private research and it seems to me are sources which are not deemed acceptable to Wikipedia. I have in the past been told that even a copy of a birth certificate is not acceptable evidence. As Mr Noakes is recently deceased I would have thought that there would be plenty of newspaper obituaries that could supply the relevant information. Thank you. John2o2o2o (talk) 17:52, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

An online search for "John Noakes" and "Bottomley" produces the Daily Mail article which claims, with a picture, that his natural parents were indeed Arthur and Sallie Bottomley. The tabloid The Mirror (rather touchingly setting a mini-bio to music) also supports this. The Daily Telegraph also confirms the name. So I suggest we replace with The Telegraph as the only source and not speculate about the middle initial, until that appears in a WP:RS. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:22, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I would agree with Martinevans123 we should use the Telegraph source, interesting original research shows that the marriage index also shows him as John W Noakes hen he married in 1963 but that will have to wait for a secondary source. MilborneOne (talk) 20:04, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Correct county please

West Yorkshire did not exist prior to 1 April 1974, therefore the West Riding of Yorkshire is correct. Please do not change, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.159.128.106 (talk) 22:28, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Valerie gets "Hitchin, Hertfordshire, England", Peter gets "Preston, Lancashire, England" and Lesley just gets "London"? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

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