Talk:JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (TV series)

(Redirected from Talk:JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series))
Latest comment: 4 years ago by IJBall in topic Rename Page
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Part color codes

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Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:04, 25 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

Section closed and moved to Talk:JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and updated. Ozflashman (talk) 22:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
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Table error

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Did something change with the way externally referenced episode lists work? For some reason the episode summaries written on the individual series articles are all appearing on this one instead. Wonchop (talk) 18:05, 19 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Wonchop: I think something broke with this edit to the template, where a part involving page names was removed. I don't know enough about how templates work to fix it.--Alexandra IDVtalk 18:43, 19 October 2018 (UTC)Reply
Looked on the template's talk page, seems like this is known and will be fixed soon with a bot.--Alexandra IDVtalk 18:48, 19 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 17 November 2018

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus after over 2 weeks and a relisting. A few things here: as noted in the discussion, the RfC found that "anime" should generally be deprecated in favor of more standard disambiguators. Additionally, the current advice at WP:NCTV would indeed recommend the proposed formats. However, this discussion touched on an item that's been a perennial source of confusion: Original video animation or OVAs, which are not traditional television series although they may be (as in this case) episodic. There was no consensus either here, or in the RfC, on what to do with OVAs. This is not a case like American streaming series which the sources generally consider "TV series". Several options have been discussed here and at the RfC, though none has achieved consensus. It's likely that, one way or another, WP:NCTV will need specific recommendations for OVAs, whether that's sticking with the (TV series) disambiguator, or a different one. Cúchullain t/c 14:22, 3 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
EDIT: As per statements below, the TV series had been at JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) for several months until two months ago. While it's been moved too much to have a true WP:STABLETITLE, my feeling is that this is the most stable version and the most compliant with WP:NCTV, so I've restored the series there. No further move should happen at either article without a formal move discussion.--Cúchullain t/c 14:02, 4 December 2018 (UTC)Reply



– This article was moved from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) on October 6, 2018‎ by Username 57 with the edit summary "there is no need to specify the year since there is no other JoJo's TV series." But, in fact, that is not the case – JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (1993 anime series) also exists, so this article needs to be moved back to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) to provide necessary disambiguation from the 1993 anime TV series article. The latter article is, however, also incorrectly named as the term "anime" was deprecated as a disambiguator by this early 2018 RM, and so it needs to be moved as well, to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (1993 TV series). --IJBall (contribstalk) 04:42, 17 November 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 08:00, 25 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I'm fairly persuaded at what Gonnym is saying at this Talk page – while "(web series)" does exist as a disambiguator, most of the "streaming" series from Netflix, YouTube, et al. are still disambiguated simply by "TV series". IOW, the "medium" is ignored. There does not seem to be a compelling reason why "OVA" series shouldn't be handled the same way. On my end, I think "OVA" is not nearly a WP:RECOGNIZABLE enough term for our general readership (anime fans will know what "OVA" means, but I don't think anyone else will!), and so we shouldn't be disambiguating using just "OVA". Further, as there appear to be both series put out on OVA and films on OVA, "(OVA)" alone is insufficient disambiguation anyway – it would at least need to be "(OVA series)" to distinguish from "(OVA film)"... But we cannot continue to let "OVA" articles exist in this "twilight no man's land" between WP:NCTV and WP:NCFILM – these need to be put under one naming convention or the other, and be done with it. --IJBall (contribstalk) 16:09, 17 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose, OVA series have never been called TV-series in any kind of discussion, formal or informal, academic or not. It would be very confusing if wikipedia becomes the only place using the term TV-series like that. If OVA is not acceptable as a disambiguator then at least call them film series. Tyrosian (talk) 16:50, 17 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
That, right there, is the point! Right now, "OVA" is covered under neither WP:NCTV or WP:NCFILM, which is the problem. One naming convention or the other needs to be picked. You seem to be preferring putting it under WP:NCFILM. If there's consensus for that, that's fine. But the OVA articles need to be permanently placed under one naming convention or the other... --IJBall (contribstalk) 17:09, 17 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Comment The fact is the term OVA is an anime industry term that is used by both Japanese and American companies even to this day. American distributors use the term when they release a complete series set (i.e. if a show had 2 traditional TV series and an OVA series the complete collection clarifies and divides the episodes based on this.) Trying to pigeonhole OVAs into either WP:NCTV or WP:NCFILM without proper research on how the term is used in relation to the anime industry would cause verifiability concerns and original research. I'm kinda gonna rebuttal several points here:
  • Just because the term isn't included in a dictionary or even Wikionary isn't a good indicator that a term is widely known or not.
  • Just because something was produced on VHS/Laserdisc/DVD/Blu-Ray etc. does not automatically mean its a "TV series" because you can watch it on a TV set. If this were true then film franchises like Star Wars, Halloween, etc. can be moved to TV series using that logic despite what their sources call them.
  • Calling a web series that airs on Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video, etc. a "TV series" is generally acceptable because most people see them as TV series irregardless of the medium. Also streaming services are becoming viable rivals to traditional pay-TV broadcasters and distributors who themselves are launching similar services to complete thus blurring the lines. This has no relation to what an OVA is or how they are released.
Instead of focusing on keeping just the bland (OVA) disambig tag or straight Support/Oppose since this is a debated topic try reaching a compromise IJBall has already presented one compromise here that hasn't really been discussed. One proposal would be to use (OVA series) and (OVA film) which is actually a good compromise. If no consensus is reached or if the titles are not moved I do agree with Gonnym's comment from 10:56, 17 November 2018 (UTC). ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 21:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
I still think putting OVA stuff under either WP:NCFILM or WP:NCTV is the best way to go here – Tyrosian's suggestion is that these best go under NCFILM, and as "direct-to-video films" are already covered under NCFILM anyway, this makes sense to me. --IJBall (contribstalk) 06:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
Strong Oppose - This makes no sense. the 1993 iteration was not a Television series, but an OVA. - R9tgokunks 09:38, 19 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
@R9tgokunks: Care to suggest an alternative proposal?... --IJBall (contribstalk) 14:26, 19 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
The term OVA has been around for decades in both the Japanese and American industries and is used by companies not the fandom. If this was a pure fandom term I would agree with you but its not. The thing is here policy overrides guidelines in the case of "OVA" the applicable policy would be WP:V which would then override the guidelines WP:NCTV and WP:NCFILM. When it comes to the term OVA we here at English Wikipedia need to take into account how the term is used by both the Japanese and American anime companies. (American anime companies typically serve as the de facto model for other Western anime companies like Madman Entertainment in Australia and Anime Limited in the UK.) There are Japanese studios that will include the term in the title in some properties while American licencors will use the term to indicate what is part of a complete set (i.e. OVA + TV series). If an American company is releasing the TV series and OVA as separate releases they will use the term OVA to distinguish the release from the TV series. The term is used by reliable sources and press releases from American companies when a property is licensed. An OVA can have episodes like a TV series or be released in parts like a film series this is why OVAs don't just easily fall into either WP:NCTV and WP:NCFILM. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 22:47, 25 November 2018 (UTC)Reply
Actually, we don't – as per WP:ONUS. The point is that "OVA" is not a generally understood term, so it should not be used for article title disambiguation purposes. We shouldn't be using narrow, area-specific terms for that, as much as possible. Either "film series" or "video series" are much better choices for disambiguation purposes. --IJBall (contribstalk) 02:49, 26 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Messed up page transclusions

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So the reason why I marked the page with that template is because, for some reason, the entirety (or very nearly) of the season 1 page is transcluded here, including the external links section. This is most obvious if you look at the table of contents. The reason I added the template is because I can't figure out how to fix it. Gestrid (talk) 13:26, 27 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Solved. the problem was on season one page. Smeagol 17 (talk) 19:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
Thanks. I figured as much. But since the problem didn't affect the season 1 page, I decided it would be best to post here, where the issue showed itself. I may have mentioned that I don't have the expertise to know how to fix it myself.
Anyway, thanks again for fixing it. Gestrid (talk) 05:57, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
I've gone ahead and WP:PURGEd the article page (the 2012 series one) to make sure it displays the correct version immediately to our logged out viewers as well. Gestrid (talk) 06:06, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Rename Page

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I propose that either this page JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) or JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (season 1) page be renamed as they duplicate content and are misleading. One page (eg. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (TV series)) should contain the overarching information of the TV series, and the other page should only contain the information for the 2012-2013 season. The formatting problems on JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) can then be properly fixed. Comments please. Ozflashman (talk)

  • Personally, I don't know enough about the show to say whether the page should be renamed or not. Just a note that the formatting problems here seem to be stemming from some incorrect transclusion markup on the season 1 page, but I don't know enough about it to fix it.
To be honest, this is the first time I've seen a page in the mainspace (which is what some people call the part of Wikipedia where articles reside) transclude another page like this. Usually, transclusions in the mainspace are limited to just templates (like {{copy edit}}, etc.) and the like.
Also, I'm going to go ahead and post a link to this discussion on one of the WikiProjects' talk pages to attract discussion if you haven't already done that. Gestrid (talk) 14:05, 29 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Proposal

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I propose that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) be gut and redirected to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (season 1). The Season 1 article will then inherit the "2012 TV series" title. The former article is just a dump of copy and pasted info from the other Jojo TV series articles. It also does not have enough original content to justify keeping it as a standalone article. No sense in keeping it around. Sk8erPrince (talk) 16:27, 29 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

  • Oppose. To gut article A, redirect to article B, and then rename B to A, doesn't make sense. You might as well merge B to A instead. But in this case, (2012 TV series) covers the entire TV series and all its seasons, while (season 1) could be retained. It could be renamed to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: The Animation if "The Animation" is used only on the first season. AngusWOOF (barksniff) 21:18, 29 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for the feedback. I have created a draft page for the provisionally titled JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (TV series) as the renamed JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 TV series) page for assessment and comment. It substantially uses the content on the existing page. For this to work, the "Infobox animanga/Header" for each season will need to be moved to the relevant pages. Ozflashman (talk) 08:07, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
  • Comment Years back, I worked on the Swedish Wikipedia's article on this show, and added a bunch of production info (sourced to RSs), which I could translate for enwp if there's interest. I definitely think there's a possibility of having a page for the series as a whole that stands on its own.--Alexandra IDVtalk 10:09, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
Comment I haven't watched the first two seasons animated but I think the title should be similar to the way its marketed. If the marketing uses your proposal, I fully support it.Tintor2 (talk) 15:54, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Proposal 2

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