Talk:Igor Krutoy

Intro

Ladies and gentlemen, with all my disrespect for this mafia-infested artist, there's more to him than purchase of U.S. condos) Please rewrite the intro, or should I tag it across? Ukrained2012 (talk) 08:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Could someone find out a printable version of where he got the money from? You can't lead with a record breaking purchase, then not mention any source of income except for dishwashing as a student. Maybe someone can look into his friendship with oligarch Rinat Akhmetov. KoolerStill (talk) 19:31, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

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Wrong translation of "Российский" into English

Moved from WP:AN § Wrong translation of "Российский" into English

The word "Российский" is wrongly translated into English as "Russian". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:19D:300:9BF0:15A3:FEEE:60D5:EB02 (talk) 00:05, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Moved on behalf of IP 2601. Mathglot (talk) 03:23, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

The word "Russian" occurs five times in this article; in which case do you think that "Russian" is the wrong translation? "Russian" is in fact the canonical translation of Российский. Mathglot (talk) 03:32, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Both DeepL and Google Translate give "Russian" as the translation. Could the IP say what they think the correct translation is? Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:07, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

IP 2601, the word "российский" occurs only once in the Russian article, here:

И́горь Я́ковлевич Круто́й (род. 29 июля 1954, Гайворон, Кировоградская область) — советский и российский композитор, продюсер, пианист, певец.

and this translates as: "Igor Yakovlevich Krutoy (born July 29, 1954, Gayvoron, Kirovograd Oblast) - Soviet and Russian composer, producer, pianist, and singer." In this case, "Russian" is most certainly the correct translation of российский; in fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a context where российский would *not* translate as Russian. Mathglot (talk) 04:22, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Russian is the only possible translation.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:44, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

I sort of understand what the IP might have been complaining about. In Russian there are two distinct words, "русский", to denote being ethnically Russian, and "российский", to denote having the nationality/citizenship of Russia. However, the English vocabulary is indeed insufficiently refined to handle this distinction, and "Russian" is the standard translation for both. Nsk92 (talk) 09:51, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

This reminds me a bit of the problems English-language authors have in translating German Völkische which is extremely important in writing about Weimar Germany, Hitler, Nazi Germany etc., but apparently has no precise equivalent in English. (One recent book I read used the incredibly awkward "ethnic-chauvinist" throughout, which got to be annoying.) Would it be correct to say that if "российский" was translated as "Russian" -- meaning Russian by nationality or citizenship -- then "русский" could be translated as "ethnic Russian"? Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:02, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly right. The situation in this case is even more messy since in Russian the word "национальность", which might be expected to mean "nationality"/"citizenship", actually means "ethnic origin". So many native Russian speakers, when they see the English word "nationality", still assume that it means "ethnic origin". Nsk92 (talk) 01:55, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Damn the Tower of Babel!! Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:36, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken:, you could try nativist for völkisch, but it doesn't have the same connotations, of course; in the end. Wiktionary has a compound I hadn't seen before: ethnonationalist, which isn't too bad. In the end, I'd just leave it in the original. Mathglot (talk) 07:34, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, that is best. The reader will pick up the connotations of the phrase as things move along. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:02, 31 March 2021 (UTC)