Talk:Hutterites

A few corrections and some additional information

• The Owa Leute are no longer recognized as an official Dariusleut Colony (they were expelled in 1992).
• The more conservative Hutterites number about 45,890 residents in 429 colonies (+ another 30 that are being formed now).
• The more open Hutterian Brethren Schmiedeleut Conference [Elder Jacob Kleinsasser] numbers about 6,230 residents in 62 colonies.
• The Christian Community [Elmendorf] numbers about 350 residents in four colonies.
• The Christian Community [Fort Pitt] numbers about 140 residents in one colony.
• The Bruderhof Neuleut number slightly over 2,700 residents in 23 communities.
• There are about 90 residents in another 5 independent Altleut communities and about 680 residents in 8 small to medium-sized Neuleut groups (10 communities) who consider the Hutterites to be their spiritual ancestors.

Therefore the Altleut communities number today 52,700 residents, the Neuleut about 3,400 people.

---84.175.129.92 (talk) 18:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC) [International Communities Research Centre]

Is there any way you can supply references to support this? Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:03, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

You can go to cedrontech and add the population numbers of the more than 500 colonies listed (which includes>30 colonies with zero population, i.e. those that have been just started) to find out the actual numbers and population of Altleut colonies (except a few that has been expelled a long time ago). You won't find Owa becaused it seized to be a recognized Dariusleut colony 24 years ago. Of coure there are other sources as well (e.g. the homepages of several Neuleut groups, newspaper and visitor reports.84.175.130.246 (talk) 11:46, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Please read WP:RS. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

World War I abuse by U.S. Government

Hutterites were tortured by U.S. Government soliders because their faith prevented them from particpating in the WWI efforts. Members of the Huffer family were tortured in prison, when two of the brother died from the abuse, Army personel dressed the corpses in Army uniforms to the horror of their wives. This is something thta needs to be covered. http://www.hutterites.org/history/world-war-1/ Sjkoblentz (talk) 02:30, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Bruderhof Communities, sources please!

• I think this edit was rather problematic. The reasons:

1. Last paragraph was completely unsourced.
2. It uses two refs. First ref is this. Even if this is an RS (I do not know), it does not say anything about Hutterites and therefore does not support the statement ("There are two other related groups..." and so on)
3. Second source is this. It mentioned Bruderhof with relation to Hutterites only like this: "The Bruderhof, quasi-Hutterite Christian pacifists who hold all goods in common..." This is far cry from saying that Bruderhof is a branch of Hutterites as the title of this section implies. Actually, it is something opposite.
4. We have this sourced section about the relations between Bruderhof and Hutterites. As follows from the text, (a) those are completely different organizations (although they may have relations with each other, just as any other religious organizations), and (b) they broke relations long time ago.

• The bottom line. Please do not repeatedly insert text unsupported by references, while incorrectly claiming that it was supported [1]. My very best wishes (talk) 16:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

They're present. You don't like them, but that's your issues, not Wikipedia's. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:05, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

As requested (all from the first page of my Google search). https://cas.uab.edu/peacefulsocieties/2006/03/30/the-hutterites-and-the-bruderhof-a-relationship-explored/ https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Bruderhof_Communities https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Bruderhof https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1G1-202919693/the-hutterites-and-the-bruderhof-the-relationship mirrored here https://go.gale.com/ps/anonymous?id=GALE%7CA202919693&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00259373&p=AONE&sw=w https://sites.ualberta.ca/~german/AlbertaHistory/Hutterites.htm Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:10, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I think you only proved my point here. (a) You seem to admit that the refs used in your edit do not support the statement and therefore are you trying to provide alternative new sources. (b) All these new "refs", except the first one, are wikis and inadmissible as RS. The first ref is probably a blog post, and it tells they are different organizations, not that one is a branch of another. My very best wishes (talk) 18:22, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

No, Gameo is a reliable source. Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 283#Global Anabaptist Mennonite Encyclopedia Online. And the statement is not that they are branches of one another, a concept that belies a traditional, hierarchical church mentality, they are related in other ways. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

You proved my point again. The only person who said it was a reliable source (link above) was you, and yes, the administrator who posted it had every reason for concern [2]. The subsection is entitled Major branches, which obviously imply that Bruderhof is a branch of Hutterite. The are not, or at least the sources do not say it. My understanding it was founded in Germany in 1920 by Eberhard Arnold as an independent organization. My very best wishes (talk) 19:00, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

No one else was worried enough about the source to comment and not a single editor commented that it wasn't reliable. This is how RSN works.

Also, you continue to using the wrong nomenclature to associated the two groups, clearly because you have no context for how anabaptists have evolved. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:27, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Do you suggest to post an RfC about it? That would be strange because, obviously, no one should consider anonymous posts on wiki an RS. My very best wishes (talk) 19:43, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I can only suggest you understand anabaptists better. if you'd like to take GAMEO to RSN again, feel free to. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:15, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Two things. First, could you please self-revert or provide RS that indeed support the statements in the disputed fragment? I think it must be removed in the present state or be fixed. Second, I did not edit such subjects before, and I am not very interested in them. But there is something problematic about editing the Bruderhof related subjects in general. Hence, indeed, I would rather make a notice about the potential problem somewhere and leave this to community. If I do it (not sure yet), this will be not at RSNB because I do not see any serious problem specifically with GAMEO.My very best wishes (talk) 17:36, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Adverb or not

Dear Mr. Görlitz, since you did not accept my grammatical explanation, let's discuss it here. What do you think is the grammatical function of "similar" in the sentence in question? For convenience, I quote it here: "Similar to the German Peasants' War, the Gasmair uprising set the stage by producing a hope for social justice."

You say "Not an advert." You must mean not an adverb. (I first thought you meant the English "advert" = "advertisement".) I'm asking you to explain what it is. I use the following rephrasing to argue that it is an adverb: "The Gasmair uprising, similar to the German Peasants' War, set the stage by producing a hope for social justice." This is clearly wrong. "Similar" modifies "set". If you want it to modify "uprising" you have to write something like "The Gasmair uprising, being [or, which was, or something like it] similar to the German Peasants' War, set the stage by producing a hope for social justice." Or, use a different word: "Like the German Peasants' War, the Gasmair uprising set the stage by producing a hope for social justice." Zaslav (talk) 04:57, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Zaslav: I have moved this discussion here as is stated in my edit notice.

Apologies for the typo. Yes, not an adverb as you can see {https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hutterites&type=revision&diff=998283030&oldid=998194891 when I moved the phrase later in the sentence]. It never was an adverb, it was comparing the Gasmair uprising to the German Peasants' War and saying that they were similar. It does not modify "set" in any way. The stage was set in a similar way. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:25, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

An analysis of the Hutterite Directory 2023

Dariusleut: 17,091 residents in 178 colonies (1)

Lehrerleut: 17,701 residents in 161 colonies

Schmiedeleut 1: 6,744 residents in 64 colonies (2)

Schmiedeleut 2: 15,492 residents in 132 colonies (3)

Christian Community (Elmendorf etc.): c.600 residents in 9 colonies (4)

In addition, there are 4 independent Altleut colonies with about 80 residents and more than 4,000 Neuleut in 36 communities unassociated with any Altleut group.

1: without Lamona WA (defunct)

2: including the not listed Nigerialeut, whose colony numbered 91 residents in 2022

3: including Harmony MB (no longer independent)

4: without the now defunct colony in Tasmania, but including Neuleut colonies in Austria and Paraguay

Note: The Hutterian Brethren Church (without Schmiedeleut 1) has now over 50,000 people (members and unbaptized colony residents). 2003:DE:6F20:C900:D424:F81:A95E:BFC7 (talk) 15:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Mention if it rhymes with hut, or hoot? Jidanni (talk) 16:24, 21 May 2023 (UTC)