Talk:Hi Jolly

Hadji Ali was Jordanian

Actually Hadji Ali was Jordanian from a very famous Jordanian Bedouin tribe and his real name is Ali Al-Hajaya .. and he's still a famous dude in Jordan .. the mentioned Syria here refers to the region of "Greater Syria" \ "The levant" or Bilad Al-Sham in Arabic which was under the Ottoman empire and not modern day Syria .. her's a link for a Jordanian site (ranked #10 in alexa's Top Sites in Jordan) talkink about Ali Al-Hajaya. http://www.ammonnews.net/article.aspx?articleNO=57325

I understand that anyone who visits Mecca is considered a Haji and it does not require being Moslem. Christians who made the pilgrimage were regarded with higher respect by their Moslem neighbors. So being called Haji is inconclusive. RichardBond (talk) 16:17, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

• This is wrong. No non-Moslem is allowed in Mecca. 173.21.65.42 (talk) 19:48, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

• I second this, this is absolutely wrong. Mecca is "Haraam" (forbidden) for non-muslims. Kaaba (where you have to visit to be called a pilgrim) is Masjid-al Haraam (The forbidden Mosque). It is forbidden for all non-muslims. Try to visit Kaaba now, and you will face with deportation if you cannot prove you are muslim. (check http://wikitravel.org/en/Mecca )

• Check the refs, please. Philip Tedro is reported to have converted to Islam. As a convert, he would have been allowed access to Mecca. It's also possible he reconverted later in life. All we can do is deal with reliable sources. I've been trying to take the hype out opf this page on and off for a couple of years. If you have some decent sources, please cite them.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 15:20, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

File:HadjiAliMonument20080707.JPG Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:HadjiAliMonument20080707.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests May 2011 What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 15:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Hi Jolly. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061028122942/http://www.trivia-library.com:80/a/military-trivia-the-united-states-camel-corps-part-3.htm to http://www.trivia-library.com/a/military-trivia-the-united-states-camel-corps-part-3.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 19:17, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Why Smyrna? It should be İzmir (or Izmir). This page refers to Smyrna which is an ancient city

(According to the wikipedia) Smyrna was an Ancient Greek city located at a central and strategic point on the Aegean coast of Anatolia. . ... Most of the present-day remains of the ancient city date from the Roman era, the majority from after a 2nd-century AD earthquake. In nineteenth century there was no Smyrna at all. However western writers usually preferred to call the Ottoman cities with their Greek or Roman names to denounce the Turkish heritage. Like calling İstanbul as Constantinople. So this inclination continues in modern times as well. When you call İzmir as Smyrna, you instantly detach the city from the current context and you put it to somewhere in Greece. Usually there is another counterpart of this behavior, when there is a negative story one can start remembering the Turkish names of the same cities.

• See (in part) my comments higher up. Hi Jolly/Hadji Al/Philip Tedro was born in about 1828 and place names have gone through monumental changes since then. If you can sources that support your position, please cite them. This link used to point to a page in Arabic about our subject, but all I get now is the Ammon News home page. Hi Jolly may not even be notable; the article about the Camel Corps once said he was the head drover. No proof. Don't take this as a turn-off.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 15:36, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

• Please read Smyrna and İzmir wikipedia articles. Smyrna is the name of the ancient city, ancient here refers to only (ancient) Greek and Roman antiquity. İzmir is the Turkish pronunciation and name of the Ottoman city in 1828. İzmir is under Turkish rule since 1317. Also visit this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_%C4%B0zmir.

Calling Turkish cities with greek and roman name is a western bias. This is called anachronism. Even today there are millions of people calling İstanbul, as Constantinople. Do you want proof that the name of the city is İstanbul but not Constantinople. Listen to some music, maybe you feel yourself better and see the point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNUsOaB5V2c . You are not alone at this point. This is a discriminative stance of western academia against Turkey. The word smyrna detaches one (both Hi Jolly and the reader) from Turkey, and places them into some mythical ancient city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpsinan (talk • contribs) 12:27, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

• Noted, but cite us a reference; that's how we do it here. Wikipedia is not a reference for Wikipedia.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:33, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Alpsinan -- the spelling "İzmir" with dot over the capital "I" did not exist until 1928, and Turkish-language forms of place-names weren't too often known in Western Europe or the Americas until the 1930s (see Names of Constantinople). In the western United States in the 19th century, "Smyrna" would have been familiar from its occurrence in the New Testament, and almost certainly far more known than "Izmir"... AnonMoos (talk) 04:12, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself

The article says that he was born Philip Tedro, and later says he was born Ali al-Hajaya. 04:04, 12 July 2021 2001:16a2:4554:ee00:f1d2:6db8:77e8:d435

His father was Greek and his mother was an Arab, so he had both a Greek and Arabic name. AnonMoos (talk) 16:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Arabs do not give their children two names, and a lot of Christian Arabs use more Western names. I doubt his name was really Ali al-Hajaya. The source for his Arabic name seems to at an earlier part of this talk section, which makes many incorrect claims, leading me to doubt that was his name.

Merge proposal: Hi Jolly Monument

A page on Hi Jolly Monument was recently created and nominated for WP:DYK. Because of the repetition and the relatively small amount of extra content there, plus further detail about Hi Jolly’s life not included here, a Hi Jolly Monument page does not really need to exist as a stand-alone at all. I suggest that its content should be merged into that at Hi Jolly, where the few extra lines and citations about this monument would seem most appropriate. Both are quite short pages, and serve only to split up useful resources.

I recommend that its content should be merged into Hi Jolly, where the few extra lines and citations about this monument would seem most appropriate. A REDIRECT would still take users here, of course.

It would be helpful to gain a swift consensus for or against such a merge as the DYK nomination has, of necessity, been put on hold. Thank you. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

• Do not merge There are four reasons listed for merging at WP:MERGEREASON. 1 is duplication, these are not exactly the same subject. 2. is overlap, there is little overlap. Hi Jolly is about the person, and Hi Jolly Monument is about the monument, with a small amount of background for context. 3. Short text, neither is very short (just one or two sentences). 4. Context, the monument article can be understood with out reading the bio article.
  In addition to none of the for reason TO merge applying, reason 3. under WP:NOTMERGE clearly applies - The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short. There is no doubt that each article is a notable subject on it's own. MB 06:36, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

• Merge Just to remind editors that User:MB subsequently removed all the monument data from this article in order to address my concerns that they had effectively duplicated the content in Hi Jolly Monument. There is certainly now less overlap than there was, but I am simply advocating for it to be put back and all the information drawn together into one place. A WP:DYK nomination should not be a rationale for failing to make a common sense merge of related content. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:36, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

  That's not quite true. I did not removed any prose from this article at all, the summary paragraph on the monument is still here as it was. I did not duplicate the infobox, that was in the monument article since it was created in 2018. I did add the quotation of the inscription from this article into the monument article where it really belonged. I did come back and remove the infobox and quotation from this article as I neglected to, but should have done that earlier. MB 16:59, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• Do not merge A category like Category:National Register of Historic Places in La Paz County, Arizona exists because monuments interest people. For example, Robert E. Lee Monument is a disambiguation page. The two articles fit well with MB's quote from NMerge The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short. HouseOfChange (talk) 20:43, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• Do not merge The monument itself is notable and is on the National Register of Historic Places. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:09, 20 February 2022 (UTC)