Talk:Hainan eastern ring high-speed railway

Move Request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hainan East Ring Intercity Rail → Hainan Eastern Ring Railway — "Eastern" is the term used for the corresponding expressway. There is no mention of "Intercity" in the Chinese name (海南东环铁路). "Rail" is not the correct noun here. I have used "Railway" not "Railroad" (i.e. the English word) as that is what the Chinese use. Philg88 (talk) 21:58, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that name exists as a redirect, so we don't need to request a change. We can discuss it here, and if there are no objections, we can go ahead and move it ourselves.

I doubt if anyone will respond or care about the move. I don't even think many people are watching this article.

As for the name, apart from it being a tongue-twister, it appears correct in terms of translation and definition. But, sources use the current name, I think. When I started the article, that's where I got the name from.

So, what to pick? Sources vs. sense and proper translation? I agree with your suggestion. Let's wait a few weeks. No hurry. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Good call. I didn't just go ahead and move it out of courtesy to you. As for the title I would rather have a correct translation of the actual Chinese rather than a mangled interpretation by a non-native English speaker. Philg88 ^contact 21:17, 30 April 2024 UTC [refresh]

Considering that the railway will be up and running soon, maybe we should make the move right now. I have been the only one on the article, except for a drive-by cat or template addition. Let's not let the thing sit with the wrong name. If somebody objects, we can discuss changing it to something else. Renaming it now will be an immediate improvement. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:40, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

 Done Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page move might be required

East Central Railway seems to be the name used in Chinese. That name is now a redirect to an Indian railway. I suggest maybe Hainan East Central Railway. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:04, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I got no issues with the move. Better to have a more accurate description rather than follow strictly translated names into WP:Style formatting. --Takamaxa (Talk) 03:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're saying. Move or not? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:33, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

The official name in Chinese is 海南东环高速铁路 - literally Hainan Eastern Ring High Speed Railway - there is no mention of "central" so I think the article name is fine as it stands. I am actually moving towards calling it the Hainan Eastern Bullet Railway. Philg88 (talk) 22:20, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Is the word "bullet" used anywhere? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:29, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Official website

Can anyone find it? I want to grab the logo and add the url to the infobox. Tks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:43, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Tried searching for it in google. Don't think there is an official website. Could be wrong. Will let you know if I do find anything. --Takamaxa (Talk) 03:17, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for trying. If we find a logo on a non-official site, can we use it? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:33, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Resolved

Haikou East Railway Station

Haikou East Central Railway Station or Haikou East Railway Station or Haikou East Station? Are there more than one, and what is the right name? (This says Haikou East Station.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:54, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

The Chinese are very sloppy about making the distinction as to whether a station is a bus or railway station. For example, Haikou's East Bus Station appears on maps as just 东站 with no mention of buses. So, I think we should use the name Haikou East Railway Station in the article to make things clear. Philg88 (talk) 22:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Just to be sure, you are saying keep it the same, right?

Are there two railway stations in Haikou? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:32, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, keep it the same. A total of seven stations are planned for Haikou (8 if you include the one at the airport). Have a look at this map here for their locations. Best, Philg88 (talk) 05:53, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Seven eh? That sounds inclusion-worthy. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:18, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Should be Haikou East Railway Station. Python eggs (talk) 13:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Source? Reason? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:33, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Are we aware that Haikou East Railway Station and Haikou Railway Station both exist? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Station order

I don't know the order. Anyone? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:55, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

See my comment on the map above. Philg88 (talk) 06:09, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

But are the stations on the way to Sanya correct? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:18, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Station list corrected and expanded - the order is correct but I'm not sure if we need to point that out in the article. Philg88 (talk) 21:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Splendid work on the list. I think eventually indicating the station order, or a map with English titles showing the order/route, would be helpful to visitors. It would be for me, as I intend on getting on that train very soon. :)

Resolved

Image

Is this too much for the article?

Automatic ticket machine

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Station names

Maybe we can sort it out here to avoid reverting each other too much. Citations? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:04, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Passenger numbers

Could you please check this for me. I am not certain about Chinese numbering.

"It is estimated that in the near future the railway will transport approximately 18,000,000 person of/years, the forward transportation amount will be 25,000,000 people per year." [1] Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:02, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Gauge and radius in infobox

I'm totally confused. [2] [3] Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

A kind editor from Project Trains has fixed it up, but it could still use a good source. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:31, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

Redirects

I'd like to make more redirects. Google is having a hard time finding this article. The average person will google: Hainan train, or such. I suggest some more. I think this is okay per policy. Please advise. In the mean time, I will make Hainan train. Why not. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:10, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

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Route map

Each station has had the navbox replace with a sort of succession box. I really think the route map which appears in this article's infobox would be best for visitors and me too. I would like to do this, but wonder if there's policy indicating I should not. Please advise. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:32, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Order of stations

I hear they're all in the wrong order in the infobox. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Clarity

There is no website for this railway, so people probably rely on Wikipedia for clarity. The railway and the station names are very confusing. A few things could help: Put the route map that is shown in this article into every station article. Figure out which stations are not in service, in particular Changliu, Xiuying, and Chengxi. I think we should really try to explain things well in the station articles. This would help counteract the terrible confusion caused to visitors coming to these articles to make sense of things. Here are some point of confusion that even confuse me, and I live here:

1. The station template shows only the previous and next station. That drives me bonkers. There is a reason subways display the entire map everywhere. This template is like looking at an elephant through a small tube. If this template is the convention, I say IAR in this case.
2. Haikou Railway Station is displayed in the route map as simply "Haikou". It is not the downtown station, but is in the middle of nowhere.
3. Haikou East Railway Station is the downtown station, and it is in the south of Haikou.
4. There exists the Hainan Eastern Ring High-Speed Railway, Hainan Western Ring Railway, and Hainan Western Ring High-Speed Railway.

Oh, and the train never goes 250 kilometres per hour as stated in the article. Ever since that accident on the mainland, it only goes 100 or so. Oh, and what the heck is FLUG?? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:42, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

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New article Merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge (yet), given the different histories of the two lines; future developments may eventually warrant a joint or broader article. Klbrain (talk) 18:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

---

Hmm, West and East as separate pages? Why not just create a new article called (Hainan high speed railway network) and move both Western High-Speed Ring Railway and Eastern High-Speed Ring Railway together as one page? When you make it as two separate pages then newbies who only read one page, are going to likely assume the island doesn't have a closed loop rail network and only half the island coastline is covered by rail. ;I did. So it makes more sense to not accidentally mislead and just show the whole picture easily in one page; so should merge two pages together as one page and name it as (Hainan high speed railway). ArrowSake (talk) 01:56, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

While I see your point and it makes sense, generally articles on Chinese high-speed railways have followed the names in official announcements.

The two sides of the line were openes 5 years apart so are two distinct projects Garuda3 (talk) 10:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Seeing as proper merge templates have now been added, I'll add a bit more. I don't think a merge is a good idea as these are two separate lines opened five years apart and both have different speeds. Merging will lead to a more confusing infobox and article, in my opinion. Also, Hainan western ring high-speed railway is actually too slow by Wikipedia standards (not sure where they come from) to be "high-speed" so the title would be a bit misleading (especially if the Hainan western ring railway is excluded. Hainan#Rail already has a summary anyway. Garuda3 (talk) 23:01, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Well obviously I agree with a merge. And yes, I can certainly empathise with the reason in how the articles were created. Editors in the past didn't have both projects existing at the same time. But it comes to the point when enough time has passed and one needs to bite the bullet, and do what is best for the readers. Wikipedia needs an article called "Hainan High speed railway" anyways because they are like an independent private region separate from the mainland. It would be also easier in the future for readers (when searching railways in Hainan) to reach a single central convenient place to know all the railway routes in Hainan, especially considering there's a possible third railway in Hainan being planned, that would go straight from Haikou down south, through the middle of the island, to Sanya beaches.[4]ArrowSake (talk) 01:05, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Also yes, considering they were built at different times. They have different maximum speeds today. But that seems like a trivial reason to not merge when their Top speeds don't differ that much. They're both high speeds with 250 km/h on the eastern section, and 200 km/h on the west. Plus it's not going to be true in the future that they will have different speeds. Future plans from the gov intends to modernize the region's railway network and upgrade all lines to 350 km/h maximum speeds. So the top speeds inevitably will become the same. [5] But the key point is that the two railways were designed to complement each other and form a complete loop and why now a single central place outlining all the railways in Hainan and explain the interaction of how the railways complement one another, seems appropriate to help readers have an easy place to understand things. Wikipedia is meant for readers and not stick to partisan rules that hold it back.ArrowSake (talk) 01:12, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I see you have ten years of experience on editing, particularly on these topics, and I respect that. If you think that it is best to not merge the page, then I will agree with that decision. :) As long as it's not based on laziness but what you truly believe to be the best decision for the sake of readers. But as a newbie Wikipedia reader myself, I for the first few months believed that only half the island was covered by rail because of Wikipedia. And why I had felt it was misleading and why it needed to be fixed. It just seemed fairly appropriate to now create a dedicated page called "Hainan high speed railway" given the province is really practically an autonomous region already, with upcoming independent tax regime and already different international visa requirements, separate from the mainland, and also it's geographically an island.[6]ArrowSake (talk) 02:34, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'm not sure. I think it would be worth waiting to see what other editors think on this. I wouldn't worry about how much experience I or you have, my opinion isn't more valuable or valid than yours just because I've been editing for longer Garuda3 (talk) 18:45, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

The west and east lines are still different railway lines that were built at different times and have had different histories and have different speeds. Even if they are changed to the same speed, that still doesn't change the fact that they are different lines and that you need to transfer between lines at the railway station. The confusion you mentioned isn't an issue (at least now) because both articles mention the other railway line. Mucube (talk • contribs) 03:09, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Duly noted. Thank you both for taking the time to give me your replies. Mucube's explanation is quite informative and seem reasonable to me, so I am okay with the pages not merging. Though it still be nice to create a new dedicated page titled "High-speed rail in Hainan island" and list all the services there. I think there's currently two now but there be a third planned in the future going split down from Haikou to Sanya. And it would be convenient and maybe necessary to have a page that can inform readers with a central place to know all the railway routes in Hainan island.ArrowSake (talk) 05:21, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Transport in Hainan (currently a redirect) is probably the better page to make as a page about as a page about only two railway lines and one proposed line is probably too little content for a standalone article. Mucube (talk • contribs) 05:26, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.