Talk:Eights Week

Neptune Summer Eights?

OURCs currently refer to this event as the Neptune Summer Eights (see http://www.ourcs.org.uk/217 ). Should the article be updated to reflect this? pasta3049 (talk) 16:31, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

No, see WP:COMMONNAME. "Summer Eights" in a Google search gives about 17100 results, "Eights Week"" about 10800, and "Neptune Summer Eights" gives 4. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:00, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 15 July 2024

Eights Week → Summer Eights – While referred to as Eights Week in the past, the event is far more commonly known as Summer Eights today. All University, College, and town publication, including all material from the actual organisers refers to the event as 'Summer Eights', not 'Eights Week'. Additionally, as referred to by the last move request back in 2016, there are far more common results for Summer Eights than Eights Week in search engines. You don't need to add your signature at the end, as this template will do so automatically. OxfordRowing (talk) 20:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. microbiologyMarcus ^{[petri dish·growths]} 15:33, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

• I support this change. While I now live in Australia, I rowed in Eights way way back and still keep in touch with rowing at Oxford University and this article. Bduke (talk) 07:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I support this change. In almost all material I have found the event is referred to as Summer Eights. ‘Eights Week’ seems to stem from when it was a longer event that took up most of the week but this hasn’t been the case for decades. 81.156.2.140 (talk) 21:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject University of Oxford and WikiProject Rowing have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 16:07, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

• Relister's comment: I previously closed this RM as moved but have undone my closure pursuant to Wikipedia:Closing discussions § Challenging a move as it has since been presented that significant additional information or context was left out of the discussion. The full discussion may be seen on my talk page. This relist is not an endorsement of the argument presented there, it simply allows the discussion to proceed in light of the evidence given. I would ask further discussion on the evidence or evidence be presented counter to it following the relist. Thanks, microbiologyMarcus ^{[petri dish·growths]} 15:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. As I mentioned at the previous RM/TR when I reverted this move, and also to the previous closer MicrobiologyMarcus, the ngram data in this case does not agree with the proposal. From [1] we see a very clear lead for Eights Week, capitalised, as the WP:COMMONNAME at least up until 2019. I don't see strong evidence that the common name has changed since then either. And per WP:OFFICIALNAMES, what the boat club themselves call it is not especially relevant. It's the common name in independent reliable sources which dictates the name.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

  Support. @Amakuru, I do understand those policies but it isn't about what the boat clubs call it, it is about the modern name the event has adopted. The event historically was referred to as Eights Week since the event used to take up the entire week. Since 1953, the event has been curtailed to only run from Wednesday to Saturday - not the whole week. This agrees with your ngram data as the 1953 date is beyond the last peak for Eights Week and the use of that name is on a steep decline.

  In terms of common names in the modern day. The organisers are linked here and refer to Summer Eights [2]. This link is from one of the colleges, not the official organiser - also showing the more common name in 2024 is Summer Eights. [3]. Here is a student publication referring to the event as Summer Eights. [4]. An alumni page referring to Summer Eights. [5]. The commentators at Henley Royal Regatta (usually Olympians and well respected rowers from beyond Oxford) referring to the event as Summer Eights in their commentary. [6]. The Oxford tourism site referring to the event as Summer Eights being its common name with 'Eights Week' an understandable but uncommon alternative. [7]. This link is to a UK Government agency that refers to the event as Summer Eights. [8] For a direct comparison with your source, this data from Google Trends shows that far more people search for Summer Eights than Eights Week. [9] Finally, this link below describes significant coverage of the 2004 edition in The Times newspaper where the paper refers to 'Summer Eights' [10]

  In light of all of these sources, I am struggling to understand the argument that the common name is not 'Summer Eights', even though 'Summer Eights' is also the official name. OxfordRowing (talk) 17:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

  Well, there are sources that use both. And as I said, the COMMONNAME policy demands that we use independent reliable sources, not particularly official names to determine the title. Google trends measures search terms by ordinary people, but again, that's not what WP:COMMONNAME asks us to look at. It's what reliable sources do that determines the name. The ngram is the clearest objective measure we have of that, and it shows a very commanding lead for Eights Week all the way up to at least 2019. If the data showed a close head-to-head, I'd certainly concur with your points. But given the overwhelming lead, I can't agree with the proposal to move this. BTW as the nominator of the RM, you shouldn't also include a bolded support vote. It is taken as read by the RM closer that the nominator supports, and it can be confusing to restate that position in the survey too. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 18:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

  I strongly disagree that ngram is the only source valid for this. You have focussed on Google Trends but I provided 10 sources. I would argue that the UK Government, The Times newspaper, Oxford tourism site, and Henley Royal Regatta all qualify as highly independent sources that are reliable. These sources therefore do follow WP:COMMONNAME. Furthermore, other commenters have agreed that Summer Eights is a more accurate name for the modern day and the previous move discussion above shows that even in 2016 there were about 58.6% more Google search results for Summer Eights than Eights Week. We must accept that common names can change over time. The idea that the ngram shows huge historical use of Eights Week is irrelevant. I have conceded that Eights Week used to be the name. However it is not anymore. Both of these statements can be true at the same time. I hope this helps explain my disagreement. I would like to further understand why you think ngram is the only valid source for this? Thanks in advance OxfordRowing (talk) 19:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)