Talk:Chee kufta

Merger?

"Chee kufta" and "çiğ köfte" appear to be the same name with different spellings for essentially the same dish of eastern Anatolia as found in Armenia and Turkey. I realize that Armenia and Turkey are very distinct in many ways, and that there are cultural and political disputes between them, but in this case this appears to be a dish common across ethnic groups in eastern Anatolia. --macrakis (talk) 17:06, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Probaly the different spelling si why I hadn't noticed it before. Since this is the better sourced version, the one with DYK honors, and the one with the more English-language name, I'll merge Cig with Chee.--King Bedford I ^{Seek his grace} 05:54, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Which is more common in English is the WP criterion. It is close. Google finds 2790 references in English-language pages for +"cig kofte" and 2290 for +"chee kufta". On Google Books, it is 20:7 and Google Scholar, 35:3 (though Scholar is not particularly appropriate in this case). Since the term is of Turkish origin (çiğ means 'raw'), it seems that the Turkish version would be more appropriate. In fact, perhaps they should both be merged into kibbeh nayyeh? --macrakis (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

The little Turkisk bald nationalist marcakis. Uh huh. Get another hobby, baldy. We're allergic to the irrationality and fanaticism of nationalism here im Wikipedia. 212.235.106.181 (talk) 02:47, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Do you have no better arguments than ethnic attacks? -- and by the way I am not Turkish.... --macrakis (talk) 13:50, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

marakis: your reality, which we're well aware of, shows otherwise. Play games with your daughter and/or friends and not with the ones following your servile being around. 212.235.106.181 (talk) 12:19, 23 September 2009 (UTC

Makraki, mhn tha akousame gia olla auta, and let's get on the merge / move idea you proposed.

We can either:

• OR Rename that one "Çiğ Köfte"
• OR Merge Kibbé Neyyé of the Levant and this one, under a new name such as "Raw meatball". I've read that the origin of this particular dish goes back to Abraham in the city of Edessa, thus the Turkish name or the Arabic name are all ultimately incorrect. We should look for the name of that dish in Assyrian actually. What do you think?

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 03:44, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Oppose No one will be looking up "raw meatball" if they particularly want this dish.--King Bedford I ^{Seek his grace} 11:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

No you did not get it, that page will redirect to "raw meatball", and so will all the other versions, like kibbé neyyé çiğ köfte and chee kufta thus calming the nationalist quarrel. It's either that, or a return to the original syntax. --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 14:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

WP policy is that we use the most common name used in English. As far as I know the name 'raw meatball' is simply not used in English except as a gloss of Çiğ Köfte -- not to mention that it is not a very appealing name. I don't know what the most common name is, but a series of quick Google searches seems to show "raw kibbeh" (15,000) is more common than the alternatives I can think of; the OED lists both kibbeh and kufta, but not the raw versions. As for the Assyrian/‌Abrahamic/‌etc. stories, I doubt that any of that is more than fanciful invention, but of course if there are reliable sources (not cookbooks! -- cf. Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and drink/sources) for this, that's fine to mention in the article. But it still doesn't change what the article should be called. Trust me, I am well aware of the nationalist nonsense around the names of things like this, but making up a name from whole cloth when there is already an existing and fairly widely-known name isn't a good idea. And of course all the variant names would be redirects. --macrakis (talk) 20:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I do get it, but what do we do? Merge @ Çiğ köfte?? About the Armenians, I called a few Hay friends of mine, and they told me that the Armenians of Istanbul obviously call it "Çiğ Köfte" with the Turkish spelling & pronounciation, but also, the ones once living in Anatolia, especially SE Anatolia also called it "Çiğ köfte",(چيگ كفته & Չիղ գյոֆդէ) the "Chee kufta" spelling in the Anglophone syntax version of the Latin Alphabet being a diaspora "novelty". --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 21:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

PS: All cited references available upon kind request! :)

I think we merge it all into Kibbeh nayyeh. --macrakis (talk) 21:36, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure about that at 100%? If you say you are, I'll support you to the the end to be unanimous. Do you think we have reviewed all of the possibilities and probabilities? --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 22:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm thinking we'll have to make this List of raw meat dishes, the way things are going. There is no definitive one name for this.--King Bedford I ^{Seek his grace} 11:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, fine, let's put all into Kibbé Neyyé... --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 18:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

This is pretty much no consensus, and therefore defaults into keeping it as-is.--King Bedford I ^{Seek his grace} 22:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Another Turko-Centric BS Food Article

I will say this over and over for you Turkophiles: a dish having a Turkish name does not give you the right to present it in such a way as to make it seem "Turkish". Starting in the 15th century, Armenians who got "Turkified" spoke in Turkish and eventually the average Ottoman Armenian knew Turkish only. This is the strongest indicator why much of Western Armenian cuisine have Turkish names. If you want to "prove" a dish is "Turkish", then show me the Central Asian variant. If you cannot, then it is Armenian. I know, some of you realize this, and therefore attempt to connect everything to Central Asia, to spread Turkish cultural propaganda, like how everything came out of Cetral Asia. The nomad Turks who migrated to on their mules to Armenia packed their animals 100 meters in the air with enlightened Turkish cultural goodness to teach those backwards, uncivilized cave-dwelling Armenians how to have a culture, right? Anyway I am making changes to the way this article is presented, Chee Kufta, like many other "Turkish" dishes is not connected to Turkish anything. Thinkfood (talk) 04:02, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

This article isn't about the history of the food and what it should be. The food in the article had a Turkish name and have been being made in Turkey for long enough time to consider it Turkish. If you would like to add anything to the history of the subject from credible sources feel free. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.197.159.86 (talk) 00:53, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

There is no need to be xenophobic in an article about food, take it easy. Anyway, your way of proving a cultural object is childish. Please be more constructive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.41.74.111 (talk) 17:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Unacceptable Name Change

The name "Çiğ Köfte" is unacceptable. English isn't the same as Turkish, not to mention that kufta/koefte is neither Turkish in name nor origin. Stop this Turkish propaganda BS. 99.7.123.116 (talk) 22:29, 6 February 2014 (UTC)