Talk:Bengali nationalism

Citing critical info

Some critical information may need footnotes leading to sources (standing alone these look a bit like POV). Examples:

• "Bengali nationalism is rooted in the expression of pride in the history and cultural heritage of Bengal."
• "Although the partition was supported by Bengali Muslims, a large majority of Bengalis protested the partition..."
• "The Hindu Mahasabha also agitated against the inclusion of Hindu-majority areas in a Muslim-majority Bengal..."

Nice article, nonetheless. And, oh, I am sure I have seen somewhere that there was an Independent Bengal proposal that came much earlier than the 1947 proposal. Can anyone look for it? Aditya Kabir 17:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

even after the independence (1947) there was a strong feeling among the two bengals (east and west ) to merg together ( see e.g Jukti takka gappa by Ritwik Ghatak ). I am sure there are better documentations of this fact. If someone adds this aspect the article will be really useful. Jeroje 22:49, 17 July 2007 (UTC)jeroje

Section removal

I'm removing the following section which is more about alleged evils of Bengali nationalism than about the status of the nationalistic feelings in contemporary world. Moreover, since there are no citations, it seems to be POV. If sufficient citations can be found, the section can be restored.

Bengali nationalism today Under the regime of president Ziaur Rahman, the emphasis on Bengali nationalism as the founding ideology of Bangladesh was replaced by an increasing political emphasis on Islam and "Bangladeshi nationalism," appealing to non-Bengalis and indigenious tribes living in Bangladesh. The incursive settlement of Bengalis in the Chittagong Hill Tracts and other tribal areas of Bangladesh gave rise to the separatist Shanti Bahini insurgency. Rising Islamism has also created conflicts and violence against religious and ethnic minorities in Bangladesh. Increasing illegal immigration from Bangladesh into India has given rise to fears and speculation in the Indian media and political world over the possible promotion of a "Greater Bangladesh" by subsersive groups and some elements of Bangladesh's military and intelligence services, envisioned spanning into the Indian states of Assam, West Bengal, Meghalaya, Tripura and much of northeast India. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.127.241 (talk) 20:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

No future?

Is there no future for this article? From a nice concept it has evolved into a collection of material copy pasted from other articles and some OR statements with strong POV. What to do? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 18:26, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Merge

Bengali nationalism and Bangladeshi nationalism looks like the same thing. Why two separate articles? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 05:02, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

• Strong support, about time we fix this.--Bazaan (talk) 22:29, 8 March 2014 (UTC) (Merge to either Bangladeshi nationalism or Nationalism in Bangladesh, in line with other articles such as Indian nationalism and American nationalism. I don't see enough notability for two separate pages over ambiguously defined perceptions of the same damn thing)

What should be the name of the merged article? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 15:45, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd opt for for a new title under Nationalism in Bangladesh.--Bazaan (talk) 18:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

May be a good idea. But, I see to concerns: (1) this new article will need to incorporate Chakma and other nationalist movements in Bangladesh; (2) these two very similar articles deal exclusively with pre-Bangladesh events and will be difficult to accommodate in the new article. At that I believe the endonym is Bengali, because the term Bangladeshi was not in coinage during the time discussed in the articles. Besides, a Bengali nationalism never graduated into a Bangladeshi nationalism, apart from its existence in the conspiracy theory of a Greater Bangladesh. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 04:11, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Both Bengali and Bangladeshi endonyms are controversial and politically partisan terms. The experts have usually tended to be neutral on this subject. Like Naeem Mohaiemen, who uses just "Bangladesh nationalism". And contrary to what you say, there is no harm in describing it as the nationalism of Bangladesh, because we are talking of movements which ultimately contributed and culminated in the establishment of Bangladesh. Chakma nationalism, if there is such a thing, can have a separate page.--Bazaan (talk) 18:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Given the time frame of the subject (1905-1971), there is NO "controversy" or "partisanship", because the very term Bangladeshi was introduced AFTER 1971. In no way it can be "Bangladesh" or "Bangladeshi", because no one heard of a "Bangladeshi" in that time. Where exactly did Naeem use the term "Bangladeshi nationalism"? Does it have anything to do with the subject of the Wikipedia article? Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 13:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I said NM used "Bangladesh nationalism", not Bangladeshi. Check his book on the CHT. And also, are you simply going to ignore the fact that Bengali nationalism also implies pan-Bengali aspirations? It's just plain silly to define it solely as Bengali. We're concerned only with the nation-state of Bangladesh, aren't we? Or are you rather interested in Greater Bangladesh? --Bazaan (talk) 13:44, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Bangladeshi nationalism has its origin well before the birth of Bangladesh; Moulana Bhashani was probably the first instigator of this ideology. However, it got massively popularized during the time of Ziaur Rahman. As for the sources, there are enough scholarly articles on this topic, [1], [2] --Zayeem ^(talk) 19:42, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - The scope is quite clear; Bengali Nationalism is based on the ethnic attachment of Bengalis while Bangladeshi nationalism deals with the territorial attachment of Bangladeshis. An article on Nationalism in Bangladesh can be a good idea to discuss the controversies and debate regarding nationalism in Bangladesh but the existing articles must be kept separate. --Zayeem ^(talk) 19:42, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

A lot of experts have said there is really not much of a difference between the two. The BNP's definition of Bangladeshi nationalism is very ambiguous; it is not explicitly Islamic, and at the same time, it claims to represent indigenous people (which makes it secular). The BNP has never clearly defined nationalism; they have rather abided by Article 9 of the Constitution, which until 2011, declared "The unity and solidarity of the Bangladeshi nation, which, deriving its identity from its language and culture, attained sovereign and independent Bangladesh through a united and determined struggle in the war of independence, shall be the basis of Bangladeshi nationalism." The BNP has never challenged this. And Maulana Bhashani was still a Bengali nationalist, and within that he was a Muslim socialist.

I would personally call all of it today as Bangladeshi nationalism, and it's something many others have as well. Shahbag for example is seen by many people as secular Bangladeshi nationalism and just that.--Bazaan (talk) 21:45, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

What you are saying is true but that's just on the context of the current Bangladeshi politics. Moreover, there is also a sense of ethnic nationalism among the Indian Bengalis which can't be discussed on Bangladeshi nationalism, while the territorial attachment of Bangladeshis which also include the non-Bengali indigenous peoples can't be put into the article Bengali nationalism. I guess the best solution will be to keep both the articles separate and expand them, especially the article on Bangladeshi nationalism which is of extremely poor quality with extensive unnecessary/unrelated contents.--Zayeem ^(talk) 09:50, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

At present, the two articles are POV forks. There is nothing on Indian Bengal. Unless one can cite a credible organized movement in Indian Bengal or actually develop the page with proper sources; I see no option but to merge with Bangladeshi nationalism. Otherwise, in its present form, it is both a POV fork and a work of original research.--Bazaan (talk) 01:49, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

I see a potential no consensus here. Just one more point. Zayeem says, "Moulana Bhashani was probably the first instigator of" Bangladeshi nationalism and provides a link to illustrate/validate that point. I have gone through the article that link leads to and have found all it said about Bhashani and Bangladeshi nationalism. What I found follows in entirety:

• "Moulana Bhashani was a stern nationalist and embodied the quintessence of Bangladeshi nationalism."
• "In his book, The Discovery of Bangladesh, Akbar Ali Khan notes that language and religion had been both complementary and contradictory forces in Bengal."
• "Moulana Bhashani was an embodiment of this intertwined feature of language and religion that defines Bangladeshi nationalism."
• "The historic Kagmari conference was an attempt by Moulana Bhashani to bring to the fore this feature of Bangladeshi Nationalism, where religious festivities were fused with cultural functions."
• "Does Islam in Bangladeshi nationalism as embodied in Bhashani’s creed shrink the space for the followers of other religions? In fact, one leading Left intellectual Badruddin Omar thought yes when Moulana Bhashani launched his movement for Islamic socialism."
• "Both language and religion (Islam) have to be of co-equal importance in Bangladeshi Nationalism. Bhashani understood this very well."

Nowhere it says that Bhashani even knew of Bangladeshi Nationalism or anybody at the time heard of it. All the article says is that Bhashani's ideological stand (co-existence of linguistic and religious nationalism, as well as Islamic socialism) and and ideologies of Bangladeshi Nationalism are the same. Otherwise the cleverly crafted sentenced would have been simply "Moulana Bhashani was a stern Bangladeshi nationalist."

It is still a bit absurd to put the horse before the cart, or in this case, finding Bangladeshi nationalism before, in time, the idea of Bangladesh. I can find loads of sources that describes Bengali nationalism as what was before Bangladesh, and Bangladeshi nationalism as what emerged from it after Bangladesh was born.

• Bangladesh: Past and Present by Salahuddin Ahmed (chapters 1 & 8) describes the evolution of Bengali nationalism and it's eventual development into Bangladeshi nationalism after Bangladesh was born in 1971.
• Contemporary Society: Identity, intervention, and ideology in tribal India and beyond by Georg Pfeffer and Deepak Kumar Behera (pages 150-151) essentially summarizes that description.
• In "Failure of the welfare state", Taj I Hashmi complements this description.
• In Constructing Bangladesh: Religion, Ethnicity, and Language in an Islamic Nation (chapter 4), Sufia M. Uddin describes the same.
• Willem van Schende descibes the later part of the development in the same light in "Who speaks for the nation?"

Is there any credible source that explicitly describes that Bangladeshi nationalism was there before Bangladesh was born? I find this important as both the articles are about a time frame that covers what was before Bangladesh emerged. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 17:29, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I guess the author tried to suggest that the seeds for Bangladeshi nationalism were sown by Bhashani based on the ideological similarities you mentioned, even though the term "Bangladeshi Nationalism" or Bangladesh itself was yet to be established. I will look for more sources on this. --Zayeem ^(talk) 20:59, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Support There may be differences between them. But they're similar enough that such differences could be adequately covered in a single article. Charles Essie (talk) 20:02, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

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