Talk:Beezer Brothers

Deer Lodge

About Deer Lodge Central Business Historic District in Deer Lodge, Montana. From Deer Lodge Central Business Historic District's 2008 NRHP doc: "Michael J. Beezer of Seattle, Washington, is the architect of the Larabie Brothers Bank, located at 401 Main Street. M.J. Beezer, and his twin brother, Louis, were The Beezer Brothers Architectural Firm, operating in Seattle from 1908 to 1923. In addition to the bank, the Beezer Brothers also designed the First Presbyterian Church (Deer Lodge, Montana) and the old St. Josephs Hospital in Deer Lodge, and held many commissions throughout the state of Washington. The brothers were born in 1869 in Pennsylvania and by the age of 21, Louis was working as a building foreman in Altoona, Pennsylvania. He then studied architecture in Pittsburgh, and according to Karl Ochsner:

This well-managed partnership is best known for its architectural contributions to the Catholic community

of Seattle and Washington state. One of their buildings, Edward J. O'Dea High School (1923-24), located

at 802 Terry Avenue, is a significant, extant example of the Gothic Revival style in Seattle. In Walla Walla, the Baker-Boyer Building was that city's first skyscraper, and the First National Bank of Walla Walla (now First Federal Savings Bank) is considered their bank masterpiece...

The Beezer Brothers actively supervised building sites, acting as construction managers as well as architects for their far flung commissions. At their firm's height, these commissions extended as far north as Alaska, and as far south as Hollywood, California. As construction managers, the Beezer Brothers oversaw daily, on-site, work activities. Usually this work is contracted to construction firms (Ochsner, 1994, 144-149). Ochsner goes on to state that after arriving in Seattle they contracted for the designing of the Colman Dock, the new steamship terminal, which was a locally significant project. Other commissions included residential structures, apartment buildings, insurance buildings, and projects associated with the local Roman Catholic diocese, that included churches, rectories, and schools. Louis later operated a branch of the practice in San Francisco and designed what was reported to be the second largest church on the West Coast, the Church of the Blessed Sacrament in Hollywood, California." --Doncram (talk,contribs) 14:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

User:MB, could you possibly pls. promote Draft:Deer Lodge Central Business Historic District, so that a redirect I created (Larabie Brothers Bank for a Beezer building (redirecting to Deer Lodge Central Business Historic District#Larabie Brothers Bank), and Masonic Temple (Deer Lodge, Montana), and possiby others that were or may be created, will stay in? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Note there is a photo for Larabie Brothers Bank. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

@Doncram, I cleaned up this article further and made it live. Every building from the PCAD list which you apparently thought was significant (blue or red linked) is now in the article. The others are here on the TP for now. MB 05:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

"which you apparently thought was significant (blue or red linked)": that is a strange leap, wishful thinking, about what you want to project that I think. Divorced from reality. The fact is I recently put wikilinks around some place names in the draft in order to see if they turned out to be bluelinks, not at all as you choose to interpret the wikilinks. I cannot respect that, in part because you seem to be disrespecting me by doing this. On top of your disrespecting me elsewhere. Ugh. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 07:13, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

You asked me to help, possibly a bit insultingly to start, as if I would do stupid anything to get a DYK credit. And elsewhere: " Thanks for your help on the Beezer article, I know connecting dots is right up your alley.": what is reasonable to assume about respect or not shown with that? And i still took on a project here, trying to sort out info, and was far from finishing, and you just dismiss the potential of what I could be doing. Thank you, I guess, for making it clear sooner rather than later that my responding to your request is a waste of my time. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 07:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

@Doncram, I think this is a total misunderstanding. Maybe I worded it poorly. I thought the entire PCAD list was too long to include in the article (WP:NOTDIR), but I wanted to include anything that was notable, likely notable, tied to a notable person, etc. so I just added everything with a link. I was trying to error in favor of including and though I was respecting you by including everything you linked. The "connect the dots" comment was alluding to prior discussions where we talked about how you liked to do research and find sources/facts more than writing long articles. I have always added you to the DYK on articles you have helped on and just meant that I would of course do that again here. I mean no disrespect and until I saw this comment, I was happy how we collaborated and improved this article and was enjoying working with you on it. I hope we can chalk this up to the deficiencies of text-only communication. MB 14:39, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Okay, yes, let's do chalk it up that way. These interactions did leave me feeling offended, disrespected, but I do see that if we were in person that it would have been different, that misunderstanding both ways would have been sorted. I agree text-only is indeed deficient. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 19:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

church of the blessed sacrament

church

Church of the blessed sacrament mentioned in draft as produced by San Francisco office appears to be Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church, Hollywood. Article credits to Thomas Franklin Power without mention of any Beezer. Italian Renaissance architecture in style. Could Power have been of that office? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 01:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

[https://dsc.duq.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1088&context=gf Portraits of Catholics with

Western Pennsylvania Connections: The Famous, the Forgotten, and the Unknown], by John C. Bates, says " Catholic connections between San Francisco and Los Angeles led to Louis’s design (along with prominent California architect Thomas Franklin Power) of the Church of the Blessed Sacrament (1925-1928) in Hollywood, which was reportedly the second largest church on the West Coast at the time of its opening and came to be known as the “Church of the Stars.” This does not suggest Power is of the Beezer office, but rather that they worked together.

BTW, that article has death dates of both: "January 2, 1929.

Louis’s years in San Francisco robbed his brother Michael, still in Seattle, of the brotherly interaction that produced commissions and new architectural designs. The Seattle office clearly suffered, went into eclipse, and no significant projects emerged from that office before Michael retired in 1932 at the depths of the Depression. Michael died of a heart attack on September 15, 1933, four and a half years after his twin brother."

--Doncram (talk,contribs) 02:10, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Other projects listed in PCAD

Not presently included in article as they are currently not blue or redlinked. Too many to include these NN ones.

• 1st National Bank of Bend, Headquarters Building, Bend, OR
• 1st National Bank of Tyrone, Tyrone, PA 1906
• Baker - Boyer Bank Building, Downtown, Walla Walla, WA 1911
• Ball, Frederick and Lisette, House, Altoona, PA
• Beltinck, John B. and K.L., Apartment Building, Seattle, WA
• Broadway State Bank, Seattle, WA
• Cathedral School, Seattle, WA
• Colman Dock #3, Waterfront, Seattle, WA 1908-1909
• Fisher, O.W., House, Capitol Hill, Seattle, WA 1913
• Fisher, Oliver D., House, Capitol Hill, Seattle, WA 1909
• Hillman, Homer L., House, Capitol Hill, Seattle, WA 1908-1909
• Kimmel, Lawrence, Jr., and Caroline Long, House, Altoona, PA 1893
• Leary Building, Downtown, Seattle, WA 1908
• Nestor Building Annex, Downtown, Seattle, WA 1909-1910
• Nestor Building, Downtown, Seattle, WA 1909
• O'Rorke, D.F., House, Altoona, PA
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco, Saint Dominic's Church #4, San Francisco, CA 1923-1929
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Blessed Sacrament Church, Priory, University District, Seattle, WA
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Blessed Sacrament Church, Rectory, University District, Seattle, WA
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Blessed Sacrament Church, University District, Seattle, WA
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Our Lady of Mount Virgin Church, Seattle, WA 1915
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Saint James Parish School, First Hill, Seattle, WA
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Saint Joseph Church, Rectory, Seattle, WA
• Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Seattle, Saint Joseph School, Seattle, WA
• Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh, Saint John the Baptist Church, Pittsburgh, PA 1903
• Saint John the Baptist Church, Pittsburgh, PA
• Saint John's Church, Johnstown, PA
• Saint Joseph Hospital, Deer Lodge, MT
• Saint Mary Hospital, Walla Walla, WA
• Saint Peter and Paul Church, Beaver Falls, PA
• Sather Building, Bend, OR
• Sisters of Saint Joseph of Peace, Saint Anthony's Hospital, Wenatchee, WA 1921-1922
• Society of Jesus Rectory, Seattle, WA 1919-1921
• Society of Jesus, Immaculate Conception Catholic Church, Rectory, Seattle, WA
• Society of Jesus, Immaculate Conception School, Seattle, WA
• University State Bank, Headquarters Building, University District, Seattle, WA 1912

MB 04:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Theleekycauldron (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that American architect Michael J. Beezer, designer of the Larabie Brothers Bank in Deer Lodge, Montana, was honored by making its first deposit on opening day in 1912? Source: "The honor of making the first deposit went to the architect supervisor of the building construction, M.J. Beezer of Seattle, Washington." from ref 8, the NRHP nom form for Deer Creek Historic District.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Geneva official chestnut tree

Created by MB (talk) and Doncram (talk). Nominated by MB (talk) at 19:18, 11 December 2022 (UTC).

• Review in progress — Voice of Clam 17:11, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - maybe

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Not sure if hook can be considered interesting enough (I very rarely look at DYK), so would prefer another reviewer to comment. — Voice of Clam 17:23, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

• @MB and Voice of Clam: I would say that asking for a new hook is probably best. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

  theleekycauldron Voice of Clam MB ALT1 ... that the Beezer Brothers built Baker Boyer Bank as Walla Walla, Washington's first skyscraper? SL93 (talk) 23:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• ALT2 ... that the Beezer Brothers designed buildings with clay tile in place of steel for better performance during fires?

  I'm OK with any of these. MB 23:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

• Approve ALT2 as cited and interesting :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
• @Theleekycauldron, Aoidh, MB, and Voice of Clam: This has major copyright issues. I'm amazed that it got as far as a queue (when I yanked it) without somebody noticing. Earwig gives it a 43.5%, which itself is a pretty high number, so worthy of looking deeper. What I found was that it's much worse than just the literal copy-pastes. Take a look at these two passages:
  • (article) The pair frequently acted as construction managers in addition to architects on their projects where they oversaw daily, on-site, work activities, work that is usually performed by construction firms.
  • (source}The Beezer Brothers actively supervised building sites, acting as construction managers as well as architects for their far flung commissions. At their firm’s height, these commissions extended as far north as Alaska, and as far south as Hollywood, California. As construction managers, the Beezer Brothers oversaw daily, on-site, work activities. Usually this work is contracted to construction firms..

  Earwig only picked up on oversaw daily, on-site, work activities but the rest of the paragraph is almost as bad, just changing a few words here or there, i.e. close paraphrasing. There's a lot of other example of close paraphrasing, but this one looks like the worst. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:24, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

  - Just so that this isn't moved back to the approved nominations. SL93 (talk) 21:16, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

  It has been over three weeks, and the close paraphrasing issues remain. MB hasn't edited in the interim. If they return before this closes, or someone else wants to work on the nomination and posts here, the nomination can continue. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:24, 2 February 2023 (UTC)