Talk:Battle of Kircholm

The winged hussars

The article says that the Winged Hussars consisted "mostly of historical Grand Duchy of Lithuania armed forces and mercenaries". It might be good to have some reference confirming that. I'm not saying that this is not true, just may be not widely known outside Lithuania. --Lysy^talk 16:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

This section probably needs rewording - not all Winged Husars were form GDl, only those fighting in Kircholm. And of course, there were no mercenearies amongst them. Note that swedish generl is also talking abuot Lithuanians i.e.litwins (this cn be found in the linked pdf - it is clearly about GDL).

AFAIK about this battle, Chodkewicz went into deep trouble as Crown refused to rise funds to finnance army, so he used his own funds and leftowers of Grand Duchy funds. It was desperate move although succesfull. And no, it's not original research:)

I'll provide citation as soon I'll get home to my library.--Lokyz 08:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Also in contemporary work of Laurentius Boyer "Carolomachia" (altogh proclaimed author is Zawisza Christophorus) (1606). In describtio of the battle is a mention, that charging cavalry were shouting "mušk!"--Lokyz 12:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Since both the Crown and GDL had their own armies and hetmans, and Chodkiewicz was a GDL hetman, it is not suprising that much of his forces would be Lithuanian. What is 'mušk'? And are you sure it is not the translation of some other term?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  13:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Mušk! is something like byj or kill. The word is mentioned in the book and tehre is also explanation that muškieta is derivative from that word. Sorry - I haven't read the Carolomachia, it's an interpretation from Bumblauskas book.--Lokyz 20:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Swedish casualties: 5000 or 9000 dead?

In the Salaspils article it has been told, that 9000 Swedish soldiers were buried, but in this page, that the casualties were 5000 killed Swedish soldiers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.233.70.151 (talk) 20:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Based on the church books in Riga (the people of Riga paid for the burials) 8200 or 8300 people where buried after the battle. This also included some Poles so ~8000 would be the most likely /Adar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.243.175.7 (talk) 15:26, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

According to the Swedish book Vägen till Stormakt by Claes-Göran Isacson the author claims; there was 9,129 national Swedes in the battle (out of 11,452), the list of the counted Swedish dead after the battle according to "Kammarkollegiet" was 3,854 - however, these were ONLY the national Swedish regiments counted. Which means, the highest possible killed for the Swedes would be "6,677" including mercenaries, and the lowest "3,854". Then also 500 was captured giving the amount to 7,177 maximum casualties (killed+captured) for the Swedes. So, if the Polish claimed to have counted 8,300 bodies, this would mean at least 1,623 were Polish soldiers or Swedish and Polish campfollowers. The book, Warrior Kings of Sweden by Gary Dean Peterson says the Polish soldier's casualites could amount to 900 killed, campfollowers NOT included. With some calcualtion the correct amount of casualties would be stated as = Around 3,854 national Swedes killed (42,2% of the initial national Swedes) - Around 980 mercenaries killed, (42,2% of the initial mercenaries) rounding up the 3,854 killed nationals to 4,000 and the 980 mercenaries to 1,000 giving it to around 5,000 killed + 500 captured. (actually, the number would be even less maybe, 4,800 since I counted the 100 captured in the mercenaries force as kills) This is also agreed by many Swedish books and historians and by "SMB", this is probably how they counted *Note, this number is of "Around form" and could be even less, or even more. The Polish killed are estimated between 100 and 900 = Around 500 killed Poles and then leaving the 2,800 of the 8,300 inital bodies found and buried as Swedish and Polish campfollowers. Imonoz (talk) 13:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable; feel free to add a section on casualties, with proper references, and attribution. Please be very careful to avoid WP:OR. For now, the only source I can access and verify is the Polish www.historycy.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=2174, which on p.16 states that about 9,000 Swedes died during the battle and in its aftermath (retreat); it notes that a number of Swedes drowned in Dzwina river or were killed by armed bands of peasantry. Polish losses were about 100 killed and several hundred wounded. The source is so-so reliable, there are more reliable works on that but I don't have access to them ATM (they are not online). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 17:35, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Kirch(h)olm

Is Kircholm an inadvertent misspelling of Kirchholm or an established Polish name of the town? I'm not sure myself, Polish sources seem to use both spellings. Which one was the intention here?

The spelling "Kircholm" is used on both the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier (Warsaw) and on the monument in Salaspils (see pic).

Therefore I propose to change the article title to that spelling. Any comments? Colonies Chris (talk) 12:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Restricting access

Since this article has become the aim of repeated vandalism by unregistered user with IP 60.231.70.79 (it's not his first involvement in vandalism, see his talk page: talk), I suggest that the access to editing this article would be restricted to registered users only (semi-protection). Kaukutis (talk) 00:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Battle of Kirchholm. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161112212930/https://www.msz.gov.pl/resource/21badcbf-0c18-4fb8-8b19-3d382469d25f%3AJCR to https://www.msz.gov.pl/resource/21badcbf-0c18-4fb8-8b19-3d382469d25f%3AJCR

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:00, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Were the Polish forces "tired and starving" or "well rested"? They can't be both.

"The Polish Crown declined to raise funds for defence and send troops, only making promises they never fulfilled. The army, led by the Great Hetman of Lithuania Jan Karol Chodkiewicz, was tired and starving; however, the soldiers admired their leader. He promised to pay army wages from his own fortune, resulting in an influx of recruits from Lithuania. The Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth army under Chodkiewicz was composed of roughly 1,000 infantry and 2,600 cavalry, but only five cannons. However, the Polish-Lithuanian forces were well-rested," 2604:2D80:5317:B00:18EB:B79:64F4:38D3 (talk) 17:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)