Talk:2009 Russia–Ukraine gas dispute

New crises?

According to a newspaper report a new crises is coming up in march the reason is here. Lets wait to see what happens. — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:43, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Lawsuits filed in

Does anybody know the outcome of the lawsuits filed in with the Stockholm Tribunal of the Arbitration Institute of the Stockholm Chamber of Commerce (Sweden) in January 2009? --Anna Lincoln (talk) 08:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't heard anything about it since, and I have been following Ukrainian news outlets... — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Naftogaz says the hearing will start at January 2010 (see here). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 17:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your research! :-) I thought the lawsuit had already been finished. --Anna Lincoln (talk) 07:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

For the record: Presidential envoy: Gazprom has not called back January appeal to Naftogaz. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:29, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

EU's Position?

"According to the EU, the gas crisis caused irreparable and irreversible damage to customers' confidence in Russia and Ukraine, which means Russia and Ukraine can no longer be regarded as reliable partners."

Is this the official stance of the EU? The reference only mentions a Czech minister.--209.46.24.97 (talk) 19:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Too big

Does anyone else think this article is way too big? It seems like there are huge paragraphs of info on details that only deserve a sentence or two. LokiiT (talk) 00:11, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the intro is to long, otherwise it looks fine to me — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 17:28, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Intro needs certainly trimming and cleaning-up. Also other parts needs some trimming, but you have to be careful. Maybe some details are unnecessary, but "the devil is in the details". Beagel (talk) 18:10, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the intro is definitely too long. Offliner (talk) 08:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I rewrote the intro with full intentions of making it smaller, but I think I got a bit carried away trying to include every important detail. I'll try to work on it again another time.

Beagle: Regarding your edit to the intro, that changed it from saying "it was a dispute between Russia and Ukraine" to "it was a dispute between Russia and Ukraine gas companies" - what's up with that? Clearly it was a dispute between the two countries, considering both companies are state owned, and considering that the governments were not only involved, but directing things from beginning to end. LokiiT (talk) 16:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

You started of well with cutting this article LokiiT, but somehow you started to cherry-pick from the Oxford report along the way; the Oxford report also states: the critical Russian decision to cut back deliveries on 5 January was an unnecessarily risky and commercially irrational action at that stage of the dispute. That decision may have reflected Prime Minister Putin’s anger and frustration, and been aimed at punishing Ukraine for its repeated threats to disrupt transit. These emotions may have been personalized to President Yushchenko, given the historical animosity of Russia towards the Orange Revolution and towards Yushchenko’s subsequent policy orientation away from Russia. Not just: We do not believe that the often-cited desire of the Russian government to use energy as an economic or political ‘weapon’ against European countries played any part in this crisis. We can not half quote sources to uor own liking here! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. It wasn't my intention to omit that relevant info, I guess I was just rushing things as I have little interest in that section. LokiiT (talk) 19:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

That can happen :) I'm glad you didn't take my remarks it the wrong way! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 21:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

"impact on European countries"

Would anyone object to me redoing the "impact on European countries" with just a summary paragraph and a much more compact table like the one seen in this[1] report? (page 54) LokiiT (talk) 06:08, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Good idea! Tymoshenko is called Timoshenko in that report.... annoying. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 17:28, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

This table is a good one, but it does not say anything about the impact. Beagel (talk) 18:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

What specifically should it include? LokiiT (talk) 20:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Specific consequences like gas usage restriction, cutting of industries, etc. Some of this is in the summary, but information like Slovakia's and Bulgaria's plans to restart closed nuclear reactors is missing. Beagel (talk) 21:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to add a bit more to the summary, but regarding Bulgaria and Slovakia's plans to restart nuclear power plants, since the plants were never actually restarted it doesn't seem important enough to include in my opinion. LokiiT (talk) 21:26, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Dubious statement

The new lead says: "Despite numerous pricing disputes between Russia and Ukraine in recent history, this was the first time Russian gas supplies to Europe were completely halted since the gas transit system was built in Soviet times." This is not true because:

1. Supplies to Europe were not completely halted as supplies continued via Yamal–Europe pipeline through Belarus.
2. Supplies through Ukraine were completely halted also in January 2006.

Beagel (talk) 18:57, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Page 22 of the Oxford report says: "It is important to underline the unprecedented nature of this situation. Supplies to Europe had never been halted since the gas transit system was built in Soviet times, and even in 2006 the shortfalls in supplies to Europe resulted not from European supplies being completely halted, but from Ukraine being cut off and diverting a proportion of European volumes for its own use." LokiiT (talk) 20:47, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Even big names write sometimes things with hurry and without properly going through all details. There are hundreds of sources confirming gas supply cut-off for Ukraine between 1 and 4 January 2006. THis was quite a similar event; it lasted just shorter period. We even have an article about this incident here in Wikipedia. I would like to propose that before rewriting this article you will discuss your changes at the talk page. Beagel (talk) 20:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Well it's not really an important sentence and I agree that it's kind of unspecific. I guess we should just remove it. LokiiT (talk) 21:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

This appears to be a misunderstanding. In 2006, Russia did not halt all deliveries to the Ukrainian system. It only reduced pressure by the amount consumed by Ukraine itself. But Ukraine then started consuming the gas meant for Europe.[2] In 2009, Russia halted all deliveries to Ukraine, which resulted in supplies to South-Eastern Europe being completely halted. Therefore, the 2009 dispute was far more serious. "Supplies to Europe" in the Oxford article probably means "supplies to Europe through Ukraine" (since the paper is about the Ukrainian dispute.) Offliner (talk) 08:38, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

delete international reactions section?

Doesn't seem like anything important is in this section and it's just taking up space. Everything there seems to be covered already in other parts of the article, except for the NATO comment which in my opinion is non-notable rhetoric. LokiiT (talk) 20:48, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

For future reference (not sure if it's important enough to put into article)

• Ukrainian parliament sets up investigatory commission to probe into RosUkrEnergo's activities on July 1, 2010
• Ukrainian opposition is planning to initiate an independent international investigation in connection with a Stockholm Arbitration Tribunal ruling obliging Naftogaz Ukrainy to return 11 billion cubic meters of gas and pay a fine to Swiss-registered gas trader RosUkrEnergo.

— Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 14:08, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

• Opposition to table in parliament bill banning implementation of Stockholm court's ruling on RosUkrEnergo
  — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 16:53, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Data Reliability

I came to the links of the source of data of gas situation, but it seemed the data is not there to be retrieved. I suppose this article is not as reliable as before. Can I see the data? I need it to make papers from this study case. Thanks.

Pras, greatprasetya@yahoo.com

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