Talk:Śāriputra

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Biography

User:Rupert loup restored a 'verification required' tag that I had deleted, saying that there is no mention of 'brahmin' on the cited page, and that anyway the cited source is 'restricted'. I have found the cited page in google books, where it says "...it is said that Sariputra comes from a lineage of learned brahmins...".

I don't know what 'restricted' is supposed to mean; it's a published work. There is no rule that all citations must be accessible online, or even be in print for that matter. Key libraries, such as the Library of Congress and the Bodleian, will certainly have copies.

'Verifying' that Sariputra was from a line of brahmins is at any rate impossible, given that we are talking about someone who (may have) lived 2,500 years ago, and whose name was not even written down until much later. It would be challenging, for example, to test the DNA of his parents. We can only go by what has been said by authorities.

So I am again removing this tag. MrDemeanour (talk) 08:44, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

@MrDemeanour: I saw this on my watch list. The way I see it, the citation in question is correct and widely supported by both primary and secondary reliable sources. However, if Rupert loup wants a quote or a source that is not limited in page views he can: it is here.[1]--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:02, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Śāriputra/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vami IV (talk · contribs) 15:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Opening statement

In reviews I conduct, I may make small copyedits. These will only be limited to spelling and punctuation (removal of double spaces and such). I will only make substantive edits that change the flow and structure of the prose if I previously suggested and it is necessary. For replying to Reviewer comment, please use  Done,  Fixed,  Added,  Not done,  Doing..., or  Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make. I will be crossing out my comments as they are redressed, and only mine. A detailed, section-by-section review will follow. —♠Vami_IV†♠ 15:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Reviewer note: The reviewee should note that I have marked "stability" as a "no" in the template. I will overturn this if/when the article passes the other barriers to entry. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 15:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• After having searched for spiritual truth for a while A more specific measurement of time would be preferable here.

 Fixed The texts don't really specify how long they searched. I have changed it to "After having searched for spiritual truth with other contemporary teachers". Wikiman5676 (talk) 02:52, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Background

• German Buddhist scholar monk There's an "and" that needs to be added here.

 Done

• who declared that his aspiration will come true Past tense, please.

 Done

Biography

• an end to rebirth Perfect place to link to Samsara.

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• In Mūlasarvāstivāda texts Move this Wikilink to somewhere earlier to the first mention of these texts and traditions. Choose one spelling or the other, also.

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• one of the Buddha's first five arhat disciples. "Arhat", and other Pali or Sanskrit terms, should be italicized.

 Fixed Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Still seeing some un-italicized "arhatships", and other terms, like sotapanna. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 04:46, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed Did a much more thorough check this time. Hopefully i got everything. Wikiman5676 (talk) 06:53, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• Upatissa All previous mentions to our protagonist use the Sanskrit spelling of his birth name.

 Fixed Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• but will teach what he can Past-tense.

 Fixed Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• something Maudgalyāyana was able to conclude to. Remove this last "to".

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• Several Buddhists text Misplaced plurality.

 Fixed Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• the Buddha said that Śāriputra's mind to receive the punishment could not be changed just as he was unwilling to change his mind when he was a snake. First part of this reads awkwardly. Try "the Buddha said that Śāriputra's decision", and put a comma before the "just".

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• descended do hell to hell, and link Naraka.

 Fixed and  Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• Various sets of the Sarvastivada Un-italicize.

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• developed overtime Needs a space here.

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• After he successfully converted his mother "successfully" here is redundant.

 Removed Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

• Śāriputra refused to take myrobalan, "myrobalan" here links to a Disambiguation.

 Fixed The issue with this is sources don't indicate which myrobalan it was, it just says "a kind of myrobalan". So i have reworded the sentence and removed the wikilink. Wikiman5676 (talk) 06:53, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

In Mahayana sutras

• Section title should be sentence-case per the linked article.

 Fixed

• him as great Buddhist disciple Missing an "a".

 Fixed Wikiman5676 (talk) 18:58, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Relics

• According to accounts from 7th century Chinese pilgrim Xuanzang, Needs a "the".

 Fixed

• However, as of 1999, no archaeological reports have confirmed 1999 was a long time ago, making present-tense inaccurate. Moreover, did some study or archaeological dig confirm or declare this to be the case?

 Fixed I changed to past-tense

Comment Not really. In the paper on the discovery of the relics by Jack Daulton, he just points out that these haven't been proven by an archaeological dig, rather than archaeological digs proving there was nothing there. This could mean no digs were done as of then (1999 when Daulton published) or digs haven't found confirmed findings. Or more likely some combination of the two scenarios. Here is what Daulton says:

"According to early Buddhist texts and Chinese traveller's accounts, relics of Sariputta and Moggallana (i.e., their bones and other cremation remains) were originally enshrined at various sites in northeastern India. Unfortunately, none of those reports has ever been confirmed by an archaeological find."

Ah, the old "absence of evidence". –♠Vami_IV†♠ 11:39, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

• Indian Prime Minister Nehru Expand this to his full name.

 Done Wikiman5676 (talk) 19:07, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Legacy

And, finally:

• or the disciples Ananda and Mahākāśyapa. Replace Use the accented Ānanda, for consistency.

 Done Great catch, sometimes I forget Ānanda has an accent. Wikiman5676 (talk) 01:32, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

GA progress

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:08, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that when a group of monks asked the Buddha if they could travel elsewhere, he told them to ask his chief disciple, Śāriputra, for permission first? Source: "In another context, when monks planned to travel to another place, the Buddha ordered them to ask for Śāriputra's permission first." ([2] page 413)
  • ALT1:... that the Buddhist disciple Śāriputra made a pact with his friend Maudgalyayana that if one of them found the ultimate truth they would tell the other? Source: "Finding no solution, they parted company, promising one another that whichever one should succeed in finding the truth would inform the other" ([3] pdf page 1902-1903)
  • ALT2:... that the Buddhist disciple Śāriputra made a pact with his friend Maudgalyayana that if one of them found the path to Nirvana they would tell the other? Source: "Finding no solution, they parted company, promising one another that whichever one should succeed in finding the truth would inform the other" ([4] pdf page 1902-1903)

• Reviewed: Ben Sherwood (Holby City)

Improved to Good Article status by Wikiman5676 (talk). Self-nominated at 03:45, 10 April 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I don't like the original hook. It is too wordy and doesn't flow well. Prefer the second hook but I think it makes more sense to say Nirvana (Buddhism) instead of ultimate truth since it written as "path to the deathless" in the article and linked to Nirvana. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

KAVEBEAR I originally thought using truth would be better so its easier to understand for a broad audience. But now that i think of it, I guess pretty much everyone is familiar with the Buddhist concept of Nirvana. I have created an ALT2. Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Good to go. KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:00, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

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