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Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 160

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Advices for a Rookie about two articles

Hello,

After several months of editing, I've opened accounts both on the French and English Wikipedia and, after redacting three articles for the French Wikipedia, I've decided to create articles on the following subjects with the following problems:
-Murder of Agnès Marin: problems of neutrality.

-Billy Monk (criminal): problem of notability.

Please, give me some advice. --Jean Po (talk) 14:01, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Jean Po.
The first article is written in really bad, mangled English. Although this can be corrected, it may well influence some reviewers against the article. Although this is a very tragic and horrific case, it seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me. A disturbed young man raped and killed a young girl. This is heartbreaking for the family and friends and all concerned. But I am unconvinced that this case is notable enough that we should have an encyclopedia article about it.
The claim of notability of the topic of the second article is that he was the last person executed in California for a crime that didn't result in the death of the victim. Certainly, this would not have been considered notable at the time, as people back then had no way of knowing he would be the last. So, in my opinion, it comes down to how reliable sources covered the case back then, and especially as the years have passed. Was the case covered as routine, or was significant attention devoted to the use of the death penalty in a case where the person convicted didn't kill anyone? That is the case you will have to make for this article. The single reference now in the article is brief run-of-the-mill coverage, which incorrectly calls him a "slayer". Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:58, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


The subject of the first draft is notable because of the political debate caused about crime, sex offenders ,recivism and juvenile delinquency; I will correct the article as for the language.
Billy Wesley Monk isn't only the last non-murderer executed in California, he is also the last person to die for non-lethal kidnapping in the U.S.
I've used a court ruling (People v. Monk) describing the crimes commited, the Espy files explaining his claim of being the last non-fatal kidnapper to die and a press article explaining the backgroung of the offender other than the one speaking about him being a "slayer".
--Jean Po (talk) 19:06, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
The court ruling is a primary source which by itself doesn't establish notability. We need significant coverage in independent, secondary reliable sources. The Espy files are an attempt by an amateur researcher to document every single case involving capital punishment. Though worthy and useful, it does not establish notability for one specific case, since it gives indiscriminate coverage to every single known case. The other references at present are simply passing mentions. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:56, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Suferring through this -

Recently on a few occassions when I saved a page it showed me this message. Considering it a server issue I ignored it but its happening quite frequently and now I spotted this [1] and I am getting worried as to whether this bug is faced only by me or is it a bug at all? The result my save got saved thrice leading to the same thing appearing three times, fortunately it happened on talk I don't want it to happen on article space.

Help needed hosts. Sohambanerjee1998 12:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

I've been getting these sporadically as well, but the important thing to remember is that in almost all cases the edit is actually being saved and doesn't need to be repeated. Just back out of that screen and check the page's history or your contributions to confirm that the edit went through. There's been some relevant discussion at the Village Pump, here and here, but no one there appears to know exactly what's going on. Deor (talk) 11:09, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I noticed that, looks like its the only way to get past it. Sohambanerjee1998 11:13, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Planning to do a merge, want to make sure I'm doing it properly

The article Frame problem has a tag indicating a proposed merger with the article Frame problem (philosophy) I.e., keep Frame problem but merge Frame problem (philosophy) -- which is currently a stub -- into it. The proposed merge tag been there since April of this year and I've commented in support of the merge and no one has commented against it. I documented the reasons on the Talk page in more detail but essentially The Frame Problem simply IS a philosophical problem, one that deals with First Order Logic in Artificial Intelligence applications. From the beginning it's been described as a philosophical problem and it makes no sense to have one article on the general problem and then one on the "philosophical" version, they are the same problem. I've made sure that everything of value in the article to be merged is reflected in the article that it is to be merged into. So as I understand it my next step now would be to replace the content of the Stub article: Frame problem (philosophy) with the following: #REDIRECT [[Frame problem]] And then document on the pages that the merge has been complete. I haven't done a merge before and wanted to make a quick check that I wasn't missing anything and had followed all the steps correctly. RedDog (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Feedback on my first article please!

Hi all, thanks to Theopolisme for the invitation to the Teahouse. I feel very welcomed!

I'm wondering if someone could give me some feedback on my first article.

Articles for creation/Face Animation Parameter

thanks very much!!! coriSuzannech (talk) 15:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. The draft concerned is Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Face Animation Parameter. Reviewers will give their views, but at first glance there appear to be no references to reliable sources independent of the subject to show the subject's notability. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Need Help Getting WP 1.0 bot to assess project statistics

By emulating another WikiProject's Project Statistics set-up, I had successfully gotten the User:WP 1.0 bot to generate project statistics for the Wikipedia:GLAM/University of California Riverside Libraries site. However, I had used the project name "University of California Riverside-related" instead of the more accurate ""University of California Riverside Libraries". I discovered that the WikiProject University of California had a subcategory for University of California/Riverside, so attempted to redo the project statistics to specifically generate statistics for pages related to the UCR Libraries WikiProject, not the larger University of California / Riverside project.

I have copied and edited all of the necessary template, but when I go to run the User:WP 1.0 bot, it cannot find the new Project in its database. Could someone review what I have done and provide any suggestions on how I can fix this situation?

If it helps, here is the link to the new table: Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/University of California Riverside Libraries-related articles by quality statistics. (Please note: the numbers shown in the table are from the old table).

Thanks for any guidance or suggestions. Stevenmg (talk) 12:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Everything seems to be working fine. It appears that WP 1.0 bot discovered the changes that I made, now sees the new WikiProject name, and is allowing manual selection of the project for indexing as well as automatically indexing the appropriate pages. Stevenmg (talk) 17:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

making a new article

how to make a new article 123456789ami (talk) 10:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi 123456789ami, and welcome! Please take a look at Wikipedia:Starting an article and Wikipedia:Your first article. benzband (talk) 11:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Welcome to the Teahouse, 123456789ami. Another good resource for beginners is the Primer. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Deleting a disambiguation page

There are two films under the name Iravum Pagalum. A disambiguation page was created for the same, though one of them doesn't have an article yet on wiki. Since hatnotes would suffice, I wanna get the disam page deleted. Can someone get it done if you concur? Thanks. -- Sriram speak up 14:55, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi. It's worth first assessing the viability of an article at Iravum Pagalum (2013 film). Are there sources out there to warrant a brief stub at the moment, or is someone likely to create the article in the very near future? The history of Iravum Pagalum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) shows that Iravum Pagalum (1965 film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) was moved a couple of months ago. Therefore, my assessment would be to place {{db-move}} at Iravum Pagalum in order to move Iravum Pagalum (1965 film) back there. If you like, you could explain this on the talk page afterwards. But it'd probably be sufficient to concisely explain your reasoning in the edit summary. Some might advise contacting the editor who performed the original move but this could generate unnecessary discussion: if and when the 2013 film gets an article, the move can be made again, and the disambiguation page recreated. Of course, if you have specialist subject knowledge (which I don't) you may conclude your assessment differently to me. I hope that's of some help. Cheers. -- Trevj (talk) 19:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

noob question! (need help in adding a photo to a page)

well,the summary says it all. i have read the help page and everything...still i am a bit confused. can anyone please guide me?Rugwedsoman (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Assuming the photo is not already on Wikipedia, in short, you can't yet, because this was your first edit, so your account is not WP:Autoconfirmed. You can either wait 4 days, and carry out 10 edits, so it becomes autoconfirmed, or request an upload at Wikipedia:Files for upload. Arjayay (talk) 17:50, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Greetings Rugwesoman, welcome to the teahouse. Arjayay is correct of course about needing to be autoconfirmed, however, there is one option you can use even if you aren't confirmed yet I think and I would advise you to always make this your first option when looking to add images, even once you are confirmed. And that is look for images in the Wikipedia:Commons. Images in the Commons are images that Wikipedia has the full legal rights to so anything you find in there you know you can just use on a Wikipedia page. This is important because one of the most complex issues for new Wikipedia users (and one that gets moderately experienced users like me trouble still at times) is figuring out what is and isn't copyrighted when it comes to images. Many of us are used to personal blogs where we can just find and copy an image from the Internet but the rules on Wikipedia are a lot more stringent. To use an image that isn't in the commons you need to prove you have copyright for that image or you need to justify that you are using it in a special way that is allowed by Copyright laws even though you don't have the full rights. This article gives you some of the gory details wp:Uploading images Your best bet is to stick with the Commons as much as possible to the extent you can. RedDog (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Userpage : Safe as Draft?

Is there a way to edit and save, it but not imply your user page? Such as saving it as a draft?Speedy Editing (talk) 21:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean by imply? If you want to preview a page without saving it, click Show Preview when making your edit :) Samwalton9 (talk) 21:33, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I want to create a draft of my user page, but I also want to be able to save the draft and come back to it to edit it later.Speedy Editing hit_me_up 21:40, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
You can draft it at any sub page such as User:Speedy Editing/draft :) Samwalton9 (talk) 21:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Oh! Thanks! You were very helpful.SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 21:44, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Photos from Wikimedia:Commons

I have made an article. How do you put in photos from Wikimedia:Commons?

Srolanh (talk) 00:56, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi, there are many ways, but one is just to insert a link like this: [[File:Beautiful_image.png|thumb|Caption]] (for an image called "Beautiful_image.png"). No need to do anything special to "bring it over" from Commons - the software takes care of that. -- Scray (talk) 01:22, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

New article title doesn't show up in serach box

I changed the title of Tze-Chiang Train to Tze-Chiang Limited Express because it's more accurate. However, when I enter it in the search box, it takes me there if I click enter but it won't show up in the drop-down list. And the page I got about tying up loose ends to the old title when I successfully changed the title didn't mention anything about this. What's wrong? Transphasic (talk) 02:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. If you look at Wikipedia:Search#Delay in updating the search index you'll see that there may be a delay of a day or so in updating the search index database. Look again tomorrow. - David Biddulph (talk) 11:41, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

As the neutrality of autobiographical posts is doubted, would anyone care to ensure the neutrality of this?

Having found nine wikipedia articles which reference my work, including two, Yetter-Drinfeld categories and HOMFLY polyonomial (I'm the Y) in which I figure in the title, it seemed reasonable that I might warrant an entry under the notability criterion. I drafted the following in my sandbox, and think it very neutral, despite the conflict of interest implicit in its authorship -- I only noted mathematical results that have been broadly influential, and otherwise confined myself to rather dry biographical details. The article title, should someone take me up on this and I be deemed notable enough, would be Yetter, David N. (I'm happy to have my middle name written out once for historical purposes, but don't use it professionally, just my middle initial).

User:Yetterdn/sandbox

Yetterdn (talk) 06:00, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi David. As far as neutrality goes, I see no problems with your draft at all; it could have been written by anybody (which, bizarrely, is intended as a compliment!). However, you may fall foul of Wikipedia's notability requirements - whilst it seems logical that having your name attached to two existing articles would automatically make you notable, that isn't actually the case. The two existing pages are themselves skirting the cusp of notability, and a case could be made for deleting both of them in their current state.
However, it seems to me that you might well pass at least one of the criteria for notable academics (most likely #1). If it can be shown, using one or two reliable sources (which you didn't write) that your work has had a significant impact on the field of mathematics, then you're in. Alternatively, if you can add a source to your draft showing that you pass any of the other criteria for notable academics, that would suffice equally well. Text-wise, your draft is fine, but source-wise, it needs a little more work. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:29, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Tornado Abortion

Has anyone considered designing a multi jet powered hover craft to aim a high velocity stream of exhaust into a suspected tornado cloud to disrupt the air flow? The computer drawing I saw showed the engine for a tornado was a horizontal spinning of upper air, accelerating till it is drawn to earth. A tornado is not so powerful if it can be caught in its infancy.Obendorf (talk) 01:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I am sorry, but the teahouse is for asking and answering questions about wikipedia, from other wiki contributors. Although I'm sure many people would be interested in your ideas, I would suggest posting them on your user page or other place of personal editing.SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 01:41, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
They wouldn't be allowed on his user page either, I'm afraid. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 03:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
The Reference Desk, however, would be the ideal place to ask such a question. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:37, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Editing first time article in sandbox

I am writing an article for the first time, and used my sandbox to do it. Now that it is written I have a few remaining questions please: how do I get it from the sandbox to be submitted for review and upload how do I upload my logo to the article, and finally how do I add an article title? Thanks, Cterzian

Cterzian (talk) 14:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

You need to read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest the article if submitted would likely be speedy deleted as advertising. Theroadislong (talk) 14:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Userpage…Talk Page…Contributions…Contact..

I have seen people with these "toolbars", but I do not know where to get them. Please help me. Thanks! SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 01:26, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

They should, as far as I'm aware, be available to you immediately upon logging in. Let me double check the preferences page. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 03:04, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
  • Hello and welcome to the Teahouse Speedy Editing. Those are standard links/pages available to all users but the links for them could be "hidden" in various places on the page for you depending on which skin you happen to be using. If you need help detecting which skin you are using, please let me know and I'll do my best to try and help you figure it out. Technical 13 (talk) 03:17, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Do you mean this - User:Speedy Editing, Special:Contributions/Speedy Editing, User talk:Speedy Editing, Special:EmailUser/Speedy Editing? Or are you referring to the User page banners? Sohambanerjee1998 12:06, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
I am talking about the banner like things that show pictures for different places. When I click on the picture, it would bring me to a different place, such as a talk page if i clicked talk page, and a list of contributions if i clicked contributions. I see them posted on peoples user pages.SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 15:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Photos not from Wikimedia:Commons

I have downloaded a photo from the Internet. How can I put it in an article?

Srolanh (talk) 14:24, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Your starting point is to read the Image use policy, particularly the parts about copyright. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:49, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

A wiki project proposal with a blocked creator...

I was looking for wiki projects that best would suite me (which I did find), when I noticed that one of the proposals for this month, had a good idea for a wiki project, but probably would become anything but a proposal because of the fact that its creator and only volunteered, is blocked.( I found this put by clicking on the user, which I was going to leave a message on his talk page) I was wondering if there is a way I could take over the Wiki project? Is this allowed? Also, am i allowed to remove the creator from the participant list?SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 01:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

  • Hello and welcome to the Teahouse Speedy Editing. It would be helpful to know which wikiproject and who the creator is. I'm sure that if it really is a good WikiProject proposal, then it can be started with or without the blocked creator. Technical 13 (talk) 02:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
  • The Wikiproject is called: Articles Focus and Conversion. I am not sure if there is a wikiproject with the same idea, but it does seem like something that would help wikipedia. I assumed the creator is Here-2-HelpWiki because he/she is the only one signed up to participate in the wikiproject.SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 15:54, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

How to protect my article.

Hi I am straggling with my article protection. I have followed the instruction of Wikipedia for placing THE SEMI-PROTECTON template but I could not manage to do it. Please give me some assistance how to protect my article with semi-prorecton. I really need assistance in form of demo video or explanation in detail. I am looking forward to hear from you. Best Regards Dragonheart379 (talk) 22:29, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

The answer depends on the sense in which it is your article. If you are the subject of the article and it has factual errors there is a page at Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_error_(from_subject) that details your options. If it's a page you wrote, then there is no protection, since pages are created collaboratively and pages aren't owned by single editors, as per WP:OWN. If you name the article and outline the issue you have with it here, we can give you further advice. I hope this helps. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:39, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
With respect to protection, it is not invoked by you adding any template to the page (such as {{pp-protected}}). Rather templates such as that one inform users of protection but the protection must be requested and placed by an administrator or someone with higher permissions. You can request page protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, but a request for full protection will normally only be acted upon if you show edit warring between multiple users or persistent vandalism, and for semi-protection the same between new users and/or IPs, since it only stops them from editing.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:55, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Allowed? And Does Anyone Want One?

Recently I made A LOT of changes to my user page, mainly consisting of adding a place where people can request that I make a menu for them. I wanted to make sure this was allowed, and to ask if anyone wants a menu. Thanks!SpeedyEditing hit_me_up 23:10, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Allowed, yes; but here isn't a good place to ask. Try Wikipedia talk:User page design center, or contact other users directly. Happy editing! -- Ross Hill • Talk • Need Help? • 23:23, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Draft Article.

On this Draft article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Dev_Joshi, Administrator said I need some sources, but I do have 4 References, so I don't understand what admin try to say, please help...--Krishnadahal12 00:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC).

Hi. It looks like the article has been declined not because there are no sources, but because it is not felt that those provided establish the notability of Dev Joshi. See WP:GNG. I don't know enough about the subject area to comment fully, but I note that 3 of the four sources are all to the website of SAB TV, which means they may not be independent of the subject, since he is in one of their shows. I would suggest looking for good sources from a wider range of places. Formerip (talk) 00:27, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Website

(for reference only editors)

http://www.marina-oceania.com/ amantula (talk) 07:03, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

|}

External links

(The final version of this article will be only 2-3 links)



amantula (talk) 07:06, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Marinas and advertising. Can some, but not others?

Greetings from Cambodia !

I ask your advice on how to correct the placement of information on the history of Cambodia 's first marina . For this country and for boaters is a significant event . But the fact that I work in this marina as Harbor Master and therefore a conflict of interest .

Wikipedia has a list of marinas across countries. I looked and saw that a lot of marinas Immersed direct links to their own websites and have advertising. It is a violation of the rules of Wikipedia, and then you have to remove all of these articles , or allow all . Or all or none . In the meantime, the placement of such articles are moderated by Vicky their taste.

Articles about the first in Cambodia yacht marina printed many magazines, as well as major media Cambodia. I can give links to these articles . But the main question : Either all permitted or forbidden to all ? amantula (talk) 14:19, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Amantula, Wikipedia articles don't quite work that way. It's not all-or-nothing. What matters is whether or not there is coverage of the marina in reliable, independent sources. It may be that some of the articles in the List of marinas need to be improved or deleted, but that should be determined for each article individually. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 17:17, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello Amantula. If you are correct that the marina where you work has been covered extensively by magazines and the major media of Cambodia, the the marina is notable and should have a Wikipedia article. But as Howicus points out, this particular marina may be notable but we may not be able to find significant coverage of another marina, so that other marina may not be notable. We don't have a notability guideline for marinas, so each one has to be judged on a case by case basis. Do you have a draft of your article and have you added references to the coverage you mentioned? If so, please give us a link and Teahouse volunteers will review it. By the way, when we have an article about a business entity, it is appropriate to include an external link to the website for that entity. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


Hello and thank you for your answers! What do you think - if I give a few links to posts in magazines about marina - it will be enough? My article will not have a direct link to the site of the marina. Only the description of the event and some specifications. What to do? - Consult with the option to the editor (moderation), which removed my first option? Or just write a new article based on the comments?amantula (talk) 02:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello Amantula. Yes, it is fine to go ahead and write a draft article based on what you have now learned. You could do so at Wikipedia:Articles for creation, for example. Be sure to include references to the independent reliable sources you mention. You may find Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners useful. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Collapse draft article - this is not the place for it

Marina Oceania (Cambodia)

In the Sihanoukville Autonomous Port began working the first and only in Cambodia professionally equipped yacht marina - Marina Oceania. The first phase of the marina for 20 boats opened in October 2013. Marina is located on the harbor breakwater of the port. on the island of Koh Preab. coordinates: 10° 39' 59" N / 103° 30' 41" E GPS 10.667060772694528 ; 103.51156415386197

amantula (talk) 07:05, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello again Amantula. This is not the place for posting article drafts; this is the Teahouse questions page. Try the Articles for Creation link that I gave you just above. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 09:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

reviews,suggestions for my first article.

hi ! i have created article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Harrshahegde05/Pandit_Shripad_Hegde , please let me know if anything to be added , suggestions are welcome . Thanks (Harrshahegde05 (talk) 10:03, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello Harrshahegde05, welcome to the Teahouse! Your draft article contains a lot of statements that seem to praise individuals without providing verifiable factual information. So for example you describe Hegde and others variously as "notable", "reputed", "rigorous", "promising", "eclectic", "adept", "renowned", "talented", "a major artist", "eminent and notable".
If independent reliable sources use some of these phrases to describe Hegde (or others) then you should reference that by including an inline citation and quoting (with quote marks) what the independent reliable sources say. You may find Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners useful to see how to add inline citations.
Otherwise, it is better to leave out all of these praising adjectives and phrases. Wikipedia:PEACOCK has more information about this topic. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 10:23, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

My article doesn't upload

I created an article about InEnArt on Thursday, and i put it up for revision, but it is not uploaded on wikipedia yet. It also doesn't show anywhere on my page, for me where I can see my recent activities or so. Is that normal and it is actually currently revised? Or was there an error and I have to create it again?NoraSophie (talk) 09:58, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. If you click on your contribution record you'll see that your draft is at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/InEnArt, but when you go to the draft you'll see that it hasn't been submitted for review. When it's ready for review you need to click on the green "Submit" button in the box at the top of the draft. Before doing so, however, you need to find reliable sources independent of the subject. At present you have numerous references to the subject's own website. - David Biddulph (talk) 11:32, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your helpful response. I changes my references now, and saved the changes i made, but when i click on the draft through my contribution record, the changes don't show. Do you think the article is ready for review, are the new references visible to you? thank you.NoraSophie (talk) 11:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
I was curious and looked at yourthe draft article. I left what I hope are helpful comments at the foot. Do feel free to ask me on my talk page for any clarification. Fiddle Faddle 12:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of my page

Hi

Greetings!!

Kindly explain me why is the page i have made has been speedily deleted, thou Puja Agarwal is very famous in her industry also she is also the biggest fan of Katrina Kaif. Pls guide!

Regards 09:54, 25 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puja Agarwal14 (talk • contribs)

First please note that you do not have a page. Please read WP:OWN and understand that, when you submit something here, it becomes the world's property. The only time it is yours is when it is in your head.
Second, you seem to have written an autobiography. Unfortunately this is one of the largest ego deflaters around. It is wise never to write an autobiography here; there is a danger that one finds that one is not notable, with consequent damage to self esteem.
Third, the article I imagine you refer to exists at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Puja Agarwal, with comments about its current failure to achieve full encyclopaedia recognition. Please read and understand those comments, asking the reviewer if you need an explanation. It's fine that you asked here, because you now understand where you must look for the answers. Please continue to ask when you do not understand things here. Fiddle Faddle 12:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I would like to create a stub. How can I do that?

I would like to create a stub. How do I do that?Steve Beimel (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Steve; welcome to the Teahouse. A stub is simply a short article with a minimum of information about its subject - it's a classification, rather than a type of article. You therefore create stubs in the same way as any other article - the Article Wizard is a good place to begin. Alternatively, you can build the article in your personal sandbox and submit it when you feel it's ready. Yunshui 雲‍水 13:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Twinkle twinkle

Hey guys,

I don't know what was wrong with my TWINKLE, but its not working properly for me for the past hour. Is anybody having the same issue or its working properly? --    L o g  X   18:30, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

It happened to me too. I think if you disable the Beta "Places Nearby" feature, then it will work again. See the bottom of WT:TW for more details on this. Jinkinson talk to me 00:47, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Now it works fine. Thanks alot!   --    L o g  X   15:01, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

DYK stats addition

Hi, would someone mind checking my calculations in this edit? Thanks, Matty.007 19:46, 26 November 2013 (UTC) (Note: I moved this to the top as there wasn't an answer.)

Suggestions for adding images to my article

Hello, I have been rewriting the article Inequality in post-apartheid South Africa for the past couple of months for my Poverty, Justice, and Human Capabilities course at Rice University. Here is the course page if you wish to check it out: *Education Program:Rice University/Poverty, Justice, Human Capabilities, Section 2 (Fall 2013) . The original article was poorly sourced, and was only a stub. I have since added most of the text I wanted to contribute, but now am stuck as to how to add images, and what sorts of images would be appropriate for this particular article.

If anyone has any suggestions on where to obtain images I can legally use, as well as the specific types of images that would be most conducive to this topic, please let me know! I appreciate all help and suggestions!

Samanthaplove (talk) 19:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

You will want one or two from this category on Commons, although you may need to add mention of shanty towns (and their current conditions in South Africa) first! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:37, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
See also this search on Commons and any similar searches you can think up. Do beware, however, of describing any clearly identifiable people as poor/disadvantaged. Apart of course from the ones protesting about poverty and disadvantage.
Hopefully there might be some positive pics as well (former shanty town now with tree-lined boulevards and business parks and new schools?)
All photos from Commons are appropriately licensed to be used freely on Wikipedia. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Also, email mayors and town and city councils (and similar) of areas formerly recognised as disadvantaged (Soweto and a few others), and ask them if they would be willing to take, and upload to Commons, photos of regeneration projects or new housing etc built since the end of apartheid that they are proud of. The response you do or don't get, might subliminally affect your opinions on the topic. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

How can I work on creating more than one article at a time?

I currently have an almost completed article in my sandbox. I still have to add a few things to it, so I'm not ready to publish it yet. I have another topic I would like to write a second, unrelated, article on. Is there a way I can have a second sandbox? Or are there tips for managing more than one article on the same sandbox page? Help would be appreciated! Elkaybklyn (talk) 18:49, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

@Elkaybklyn: Hey Elkaybklyn You can in theory have an unlimited number of sandboxes existing at the same time. All you need to do is create a page in your user or user talk namespace, named intuitively, in the form [[User:Elkaybklyn/Name of proposed article]] To create that page, you can type that anywhere and just hit "show preview" and then click on the red-linked (meaning not yet created) link that will display. What I would suggest, though, is that you go to your userpage, type out just such a sandbox link, and save it. Then, just click on that red link and create the sandbox with your content. That way, anytime you want to go back to that sandbox, you can just go to your userpage to find a link to it. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:07, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Create a user sub-page, or pages - see WP:USERSUBPAGE for step by step instructions. Sub-pages are where most long-standing editors create new articles, often working on several at a time. You can call these sandbox 1, sandbox 2 etc., but if you have a memory like mine it is easier to use the subject of the article. Theses sub-pages are not in article space, so will not show up on searches, the only difference to a sandbox is that they cannot be accessed via a button at the top of the page. To get to your sub-pages easily, you can bookmark them, leave the titles in your sandbox, or get to them via your Contributions page - if you scroll to the bottom of your contributions page, there is a list that starts "Elkaybklyn: Subpages" if you click on sub-pages it will list all the pages starting Elkaybklyn/ Currently, this only lists Elkaybklyn/sandbox Arjayay (talk) 19:27, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Fugghedaboutit and Arjayay. Very helpfulElkaybklyn (talk) 20:25, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

First article: referencing a user page vs article

Greetings Editors,

I am in the process of refining my first article submission as it awaits its second review. One of the sections I added contains a large quote (with reference) from, and a wiki link to, a user page which contains a lot of information on the subject I am writing about. I was wondering if referencing a user page vs an article is in line with wikipedia standards and practices. I would greatly appreciate any insight on this matter or any other issues you might find with my submission. Please let me know if I can provide anymore information in regards to this inquiry. Here is the url to my sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tyler.tw./sandbox

Thanks! Tyler

Tyler.tw. (talk) 18:49, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

p.s. the section in question is the one titled "Pizza Acrobatics"

Tyler.tw. (talk) 18:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the teahouse Tyler. You should only link to other published wikipedia pages from an article, not to user pages or to other sites on the Internet. From the wp:Manual of Style "Do not create links to user or wikiproject pages in articles, except in articles about Wikipedia itself (see WP:Self-references to avoid)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Linking#General_points_on_linking_style RedDog (talk) 20:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
One addendum, As I read over my comment I realized that your initial question was about using as a reference rather than linking but the same rule applies, text on a user page does not qualify as a reference. RedDog (talk) 20:55, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
To go a stage further, text on any Wikipedia or other wiki page does not qualify as a reference, see WP:USERGENERATED. - David Biddulph (talk) 21:09, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Hey Tyler.tw. See also WP:CIRCULAR. By the way, when you copy material from one article into another you must provide copyright attribution. The easiest way is by placing in the edit summary when you are making the edit a note stating what you are doing and linking to the source of the content. For example copied content from [[article name]]; see that article's history for attribution. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)


Awesome thanks so much guys! Tyler.tw. (talk) 20:55, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Printability

I have just created a page "The Hits Of Hank Snow" which looks OK on screen but produces blank pages on printout. This was my first attempt at a table which must be the root cause, but I cannot see why.

Delangle9Delangle9 (talk) 18:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

@Delangle9: Welcome to the teahouse. Try printing out the "printable version" - you can find it here. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 18:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Delangle9, I just went to the article and tried to print it and it worked so whatever was going on has either been fixed in the article or it could be a local problem with your browser, printer, etc. Try doing the following: clear the cache of your browser, restart your router, quit and restart your browser. Also, try printing and select the "Save to PDF" option from the print dialog box that comes up. What this will do is to save a file version of the printable image. If the file that is created looks good then it's definitely an issue with your printer. Also, if all else fails try rebooting the computer and printer. RedDog (talk) 00:28, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

How to stop counting years when a person die

Hello,
I wrote one page in wikipedia. In one page I do several activities that calculate number of years till current date.
I found several solutions. One of them is ok but not easy to maintained.
I use date (see below exemple \ is there not to interpret the curly brasses) to calculate till today
the number of years. Imagine now that I die. One of my friend has to finish the job put the day when I died...
Here an exemple of number of years calculated till current date (see below).
\{\{age|2005|02|01}} years
it will render in 2013/11/27 (today date of post)
19 years (calculated) so its 8 years (written with 8 (the number) date of post)
I die
How to make calculus stops (specify in the code my dying day and then all date calculus within the page stop at the the death date)?
One solution is to substract two dates 2005/02/01 till 2013/11/27 (I know how to do it but I might miss one date).
Due to number of calculus within the page (see upper remark) is there an easy way to stop all of them from one place
in the code ?
Another solution that can be exploited but I don't know how to use it is to declare parameters.
Is there a way to specify Parameter names like birth_date.
I designed my own info box and dont know how to declare a parameter that can be reused.

Sdo2013 (talk) 00:01, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sdo2013, welcome to the Teahouse. You can add the death date to the age template. See the documentation and many other templates at Template:Age. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:04, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

How to see changes to a page

How do you see changes to pages? Im asking in reference to ANY page.ThanksSpeedyEditing hit_me_up 00:59, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hey Speedy Editing. For the mechanics of examining changes, please see Help:Diff and Help:Page history. To be informed of changes, you can use your watchlist. Also, I personally find the enhanced diff view provided by User:Cacycle/wikEdDiff to be very useful. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 06:03, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

I would like to link an existing English Wikipedia article to the German version of it (also already existing).

I have tried to speedy delete it (as I created it) and have also tried to 'delete with a reason'. Both were rejected, presumably because others have since edited the page. The english version is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iversity, the German version is here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iversity.

Is it possible to link the two existing articles, with the help of an administrator?


Thank you.

87.187.135.18 (talk) 12:15, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

  Done Anyone can do it. I just did. The "Languages" item of the left hand menu is the key. After using it a dialogue box opens within which you can flag the desired Wikipedia version to link to and the name of the article. If there is a match then it links, and makes the link centrally so that all articles so linked link to each other. Good question well asked. Fiddle Faddle 12:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

How to a fix a wrong title?

I created a new page, about the epidemiologist Jon Andrus, but accidentally left his family name as "andrus"", without the capital "A". Is there an easy way to fix that? Shayer 06:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shayer (talk • contribs)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Shayer. We call changing the name of an article "moving". Go to the article, and then look at the menu bar at the top of the page. To the right of the star, you will see a little triangle. Click on that, and it will pull down the "move" menu. Fill it out properly and carefully, listing "capitalization error" or something similar, as the reason for the move, and do it. Your article will then have the correct title. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:52, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks. someone else helped me this time, but thanks to you I learned how to do it myself . Shayer 14:37, 27 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shayer (talk • contribs)

Television show infoboxes

I was wondering whether infoboxes pertaining to television shows should include a full list of characters under "starring", like this one: Isidingo if there is already a lengthly list naming them. I don't know if I should fix it, should it be unnecessary, or not? Knyzna1 (talk) 16:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Editing world map contents on visa requirements articles

Dear all, Could you please advise me on what software to use to edit world maps containing various visa requirements information. Example: File:DutchVisaFree.PNG. Regards, BM €! (talk) 15:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Software for editing PNG files is discussed at Portable Network Graphics#Bitmap graphics editor support for PNG. While I'm here, I changed the URL in your question to a wikilink, which is the preferred form for internal links to Wikipedia pages. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:51, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Featured Article

How many hours of work does it take to get an article from B status to a featured article? Eaamed (talk) 01:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the teahouse Eaamed. As Crisco said it's really not possible to give an answer to such a general question. It depends so much on the article. If it's a controversial article it will take a lot longer because people have to reach a consensus. Also, and each editor is different of course, but I think it's better not to focus too much on the status of the article. Those things are needed but they kind of take care of themselves IMO. I think the most productive approach is just to focus on making the articles better rather than worrying about the status grade. RedDog (talk) 19:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
It takes me probably 100 to get an article to GA. I need the help of others to reach FA. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 21:01, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

pls provide link to request someone else write article under Arts, Newsprint, thank

can't find link to request a volunteer write an article about the James O. Supple Religion Feature Writer of the Year Award, which honours the best in-depth writing and analysis of religious issues on the continent.

think it would go under Arts, Newsprint? thanku Angfadhapmek (talk) 00:00, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

You need to edit the page Wikipedia:Requested articles/Arts and entertainment/Print media (which I guess was what you meant) to insert your request. It would be helpful if you would first identify the several pieces of in-depth writing about the award, in reliable sources unconnected with the award or its administrators, as without these the subject will not be notable (in Wikipedia's special sense) and cannot have an article.

Removing tags

Hi! I made an article and someone added an orphan tag to it, I added some links so the article is no longer an orphan, can I just remove the tag now, or do I have to let the person know I am doing so? Also, when making small edits to articles such as adding links and references I'm assuming I don't need to justify what I'm doing on talk pages as you would for larger edits, or changes?

Thanks for your help.

Ladywikling (talk) 18:40, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Ladywikling! I have removed {{orphan}} from Rachel Jewkes. For future reference, you can just remove the tag; there's no need to notify anyone. Discussion should take place on the talk page if another editor retags the article. However, you need edit summaries for every single edit on Wikipedia, minor or not. Not necessarily justification; simple descriptions will do. It's just courtesy; it's much easier for a fellow editor to read an edit summary than to compare revisions. Hope I helped! Rotideypoc41352 (talk) 04:00, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Re: Recently submitted article

Hi, I Submitted an article 3 days ago to Wikipedia. It comes up on-line when I search for the subject of the article but it has User Name: and Sandbox as its on-line title.

Am I now waiting for the article to be validated by the Wikipedia Editors, after which the article will have the article subject as it's title? I hope so.

Sorry I'm not understanding the process very well, thank you for any assistance with this. Regards Iona90.6.108.57 (talk) 09:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Hello Iona, and welcome to the teahouse. At the moment, User:Aesheticinfo/sandbox is not due to be reviewed or validated - it will just sit there until someone objects to it! If you would like it to be reviewed as an article submission, you could add {{subst:submit}} to the top of it. If it is accepted, it will then be moved to the article subject instead of being named as a user sandbox. There are well over a thousand articles submissions waiting to be reviewed at the moment, so it may take a few weeks for someone to get to it.
If Aesheticinfo is your Wikipedia account, it is useful to remember to sign into it when editing. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 10:24, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Where does one go to request a close of a contentious content dispute?

Where does one go to request a close of a contentious content dispute?

It would seem that the Talk page of the Wikipedia talk:Closing discussions might be the place, but it appears that that particular page is not much monitored. I also tried at the Wikipedia:Help Project, but again, I don't believe that is a heavily used Talk page either.

The Wikipedia:Closing discussions information page does not provide an answer to the question. Is this something that Administrator should be asked to consider? Or is there some other forum that ought to be used for such requests? Cheers. N2e (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

@N2e: Hey N2e. Tailor made for just this type of matter: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:40, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Perfect. Thanks very much~ N2e (talk) 04:57, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Anytime.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:48, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

How Do I Post An Article About My Rifle To Correct The Information That Is On Wikipedia

Am The Designer And The Manfacturer Of The Pauza P50 Rifle. I Would Like To Correct The Missinformation That Is On Wikipedia2001:5B0:29FF:3CF0:0:0:0:35 (talk) 18:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi. It's usually possible to correct misinformation on Wikipedia. I know nothing about guns, but what's the misinformation in this case? Formerip (talk) 20:11, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello. The best place to discuss this is on the Talk page of the article in question. Please note that information should be backed up by published sources: your own personal knowledge is not acceptable as a source. --ColinFine (talk) 14:57, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Require help to get an article published

Hello there, i have written an article after much research about Cloud Technological Features which was deleted with a reason of been duplicate to Cloud computing. However tried to explain that its not since Cloud Computing article covers only fundamentals of cloud computing and my article encompasses all the technological features service providers offer. this helps Customer to pin point the differences in feature offerings.

Can you please help in getting this published or help me a way out? For conversations after it was marked for deletion - kindly refer this link Parmarvishalb (talk) 14:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

just forgot to add this, this article requires lot more to be added, however it requires to be published to get help from the experts and experienced in the industry. Infact my own research is along on-going while this gets published. --Parmarvishalb (talk) 14:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the teahouse Parmarvishalb. I just took a quick look at your article so keep that in mind in what follows. I do see the point you are making, that this is a reasonable topic for a new aticle, comparing the various vendors in this emerging market. That is different than describing what cloud computing is. However, I agree with the speedy deletion decision. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a place to publish wp:original research. In your question you mention that you are currently doing research on this topic. Perhaps Cloud Computing is just too new an area for this to be an appropriate Wikipedia topic yet. But if not what is needed is a source for the various matrices you have. Especially important is to have at least one and really several references for your Feature based Cloud Computing Utility Comparison Table. I work in IT. I guarantee that soon after a table like this goes live Wikipedia will be hearing from the various vendors who don't agree with their description in your table. It's not enough to have references (as you currently do) for specific entries in the table. For one thing most of those references are notes but even if they aren't notes having just individual references means that the relative weight and priorities given to the different boxes is not something that is from a reliable source but from the author of the article and that isn't what Wikipedia is for. I can see how a matrix like that would be very valuable but before it can be published in Wikipedia it needs to be published in a reliable objective source such as a journal or trade magazine. It's especially important that the source(s) are objective and not biased to one of the vendors such as Google or IBM. RedDog (talk) 23:54, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Many Thanks for your inputs, they were very useful. Yes i definitely agree with your point of sourcing the information to more references as this would further strengthen the authenticity of the article. However the arena of Cloud Computing is vast and does require people who have actually associated with or implemented or experienced it themselves to contribute and enhance the content. As i understand there are two options for this article: 1. Get the article published keeping Service Providers list and Features table. Also including few of the Features in the comparison table which has all requirements (service providers own statements, multiple references and authenticity). This would enable people to view and add in more details collated through references/ journals/ magazines. 2. Work on getting more references and authencity to strength the comparison table and in the meantime get the article published without the comparison table. Hope you appreciate the fact that this is a vast topic and does require multiple hands to get complete coverage of the topic, hence its required to get it published before it can completely completed. awaiting for your precious guidance Parmarvishalb (talk) 09:00, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

I can't really give you a flowchart with a guaranteed path as to what it will take to make the article publishable. I just took a quick look at it and the matrix was the most obvious thing that caught my eye. To be honest since you seem like a very new Wikipedia editor my advice is to start by editing some existing articles rather than trying to create a brand new one. There are a lot of Information Technology and Computer Science articles that need work. Also, I just found this article Cloud_computing_comparison which looks very similar to your article. I hadn't seen that one before. And that article needs work, it has tags on it for better references and needing to be complete. I suggest you start by improving that page or other existing pages on Cloud Computing or IT. RedDog (talk) 05:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Many Thanks Michael for your time and advice. Surely will colaborate with the Cloud Computing Comparison article to start off with my wiki experience. Thank you once again. --Parmarvishalb (talk) 07:54, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Glad I could be of some help. Always good to see new resources to work on the IT articles. If you have further questions or get stuck on something feel free to leave me messages on my Talk page. RedDog (talk) 15:15, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Why do admin not practice what they preach?

I am sure all newcomers have at some point been instructed on how best to avoid conflicts, being polite, collaborating with others, discussion. Yet I find it's often the admin that are most guilty of causing any bad feeling; by reverting without any apparent forethought, or offering the most sarcastic of summaries, and never once admitting they are in any way at fault. Wicks Steve (talk) 13:16, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. If you are talking about the situation at #Rename an article to one of its redirects, the situation seems very clear. - David Biddulph (talk) 13:31, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Sorry to be blunt, but you made a mess of things, the admin cleaned it up and was quite polite. You are new, no one blamed you for making an understandable mistake, they cleaned it up quietly, yet you are the one complaining. An odd situation. I agree with you that admins ought not to be causing problems. I think you misread the situation. Can we start over? --S Philbrick(Talk) 13:42, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
This is only the latest in a series of events that appear readily explained away as understandable mistakes made by novices, so consider this novice has once again been firmly put in his place. It doesn't however provide a solution, by addressing the cause, and removing such opportunities to make mistakes, and it doesn't address the issue of abuse from unhelpfully sarcastic summaries.Wicks Steve (talk) 13:58, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Welcome to the Teahouse Wicks Steve. I haven't looked at any of the pages or edits in question so I'm not taking any stand on the specifics of your question but I had a reaction to the general issue you raise. In my experience the environment on Wikipedia is better than just about anyplace else on the Internet. At least any open environment that lets people work without strong moderation and verification of who they are. But of course there can still be people who are rude. Sometimes it happens unintentionally but sometimes it seems intentional. I've had mostly great experiences editing but a couple of bad ones. When that happens what I do is just say (pardon my language) fuck it. There are always countless articles that need work. If one article is being dominated by someone who is rude or sarcastic it will get sorted out eventually but the best option IMO is to not waste cycles on it and just pick up and find some other article to work on and cool people to work with. RedDog (talk) 15:01, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
The sarcasm I spoke of can be found within the edit summaries of reverts of my edits made by certain admin. My comment sent to their talk page was soon deleted, without reply, although I appreciate, everyone can have a bad day.

I agree, in the most part I find Wiki a most pleasant agreeable environment. It's those occasions when you have spent up to 4 days on a page (see Appleby Grammar School) for it only to be reverted within minutes without any apparent reason (not that Appleby Grammar has been, yet), or with a sarcastic summary attached. Or finding out it can take over a month to get a picture uploaded if you follow the correct procedure, all the while seeing pictures that have been on here years displaying warning notices, but still there nonetheless Wicks Steve (talk) 15:38, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Just for the record, the editor who made those sarcastic edit summaries is not an administrator... Yunshui 雲‍水 15:51, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Well, that explains a lot... Wicks Steve (talk) 16:06, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
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