Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 June 6

Language desk
< June 5	<< May | June | Jul >>	June 7 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

June 6

Decriminalisation of suicide and the continued use of "commit"

In many countries, suicide is no longer a crime - therefore is the continued use of "commit" suicide linguistically correct on Wikipedia articles where the act is in a country that Suicide is not a crime? Should we be using "died by" or "completed suicide" instead? Million_Moments (talk) 14:45, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Responses for or against the use of commit would be Linguistic prescription, which can only ascend to the status of well-argued opinion. What Wikipedia "should" do is a request for debate or opinion, which a notice up at the top of the page says not to bother with. Now, if people want to present sources that explain noteworthy authorities' views on the matter, that would just be presenting references. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:52, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

There's nothing about the word "commit" that actually requires illegality, so it's certainly not linguistically incorrect. An example from Webster's New Collegiate: "He committed an uncharacteristic error." That said, those with a commitment to not stigmatize suicide recommend against the use of "commit". Unfortunately most of the alternatives they suggest are stilted and unnatural. There's nothing wrong, though, with "He killed himself" or "She killed herself". - Nunh-huh 14:57, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

"Commit suicide" sounds softer than "kill oneself". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:27, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

• My favourite use of "commit" came from my late mother, who was conveying a news story she had heard, only couching it in terms acceptable to her generation. It was about a man who had raped and brutalised a woman, and in the process he also sodomised her. According to Mum, "he raped her, beat her up, and even committed homosexuality on her". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:34, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
• I think you have committed a mistake if you think that commit means a criminal act. Commit it to memory, or at least commit yourself to learning the English language as it is spoken. Stop committing yourself to this crusade to get a word changed where it doesn't need to be, "commit suicide" does not carry any pejorative sense at all. Commit just means to "do something". That's all. --Jayron32 02:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
• update table_1 set column_1 = 'X'; commit; /* ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:26, 7 June 2018 (UTC) */

This question has already been discussed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 160#Wording on articles about suicide in line with recommended best practice based on research, at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies/2017 archive#Usage of "Committed suicide", and most recently at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 197#Use of "died by suicide" at the David Reimer article. They didn't come to a consensus any of those times. --Antiquary (talk) 09:41, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

• I once read a historic document (I think it may have been a translation of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle) that described someone as being "killed by his own hand" - which to me brought to mind the scene in Evil Dead II where Ash's hand became possessed and attacked him. Iapetus (talk) 10:14, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

yes, see Wiktionary:by one's own hand. It still has usage, although with a slightly archaic air about it; e.g. By His Own Hand?: The Mysterious Death of Meriwether Lewis Alansplodge (talk) 10:32, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Some languages have a word for the action, e.g. Portuguese me suicidiar ("to kill myself"). 87.112.145.168 (talk) 12:30, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

That looks like two words to me. But not sure it will help the problem raised here. Just a reminder, following a rather fraught discussion at Ernest Hemingway, that "commit" is widely used in all the subcategories for Category:Suicides by occupation. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:50, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

most unlikely superstar celebrity

I want your opinion about the meaning of the phrase "the most unlikely superstar celebrity"in the following sentence:"Stephen Hawking was one of the world's most acclaimed cosmologists, a medical miracle, and probably the galaxy's most unlikely superstar celebrity." Does it mean that of all humanity Hawking stood the least chance to become a superstar celebrity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.249.223.206 (talk) 15:01, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Up at the top of the page, it says "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." Ian.thomson (talk) 15:16, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't see a request for debate, I see a request for a semantic analysis of the quoted sentence. But I assume good faith, as we are here instructed to. --Lgriot (talk) 14:15, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Where are you seeing that sentence? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

The sentence is a quote from numerous reports of his death, looks like the Press Association was the origin. DuncanHill (talk) 16:15, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

The answer can be found at hyperbole, which should be obvious to anyone who saw the word "galaxy" in the quote. Matt Deres (talk) 16:53, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

What, more unlikely than Kim Kardashian? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:39, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

The sentence didn't necessarily mean that "of all humanity Hawking stood the least chance to become a superstar celebrity." One could interpret the sentence to mean that of all the superstar celebrities, Hawking was the most unlikely to have achieved that distinction. The writer could have thought that there were millions of other people who were even less likely than Hawking to become superstar celebrities -- and never actually did become superstar celebrities. (But I think Matt Deres is right to chalk the sentence up to hyperbole.) --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:02, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Proserinum -detecting of a medication name etymology

There's a drug that call Neostigmine. In Eastern europe countries it's called Proserinum. I'm trying to get the etymologycal explanation for this name. Do you have any suggestion or speculation about the meaning of this name (or maybe serinum?)--93.126.116.89 (talk) 23:40, 6 June 2018 (UTC)?

I'm not familiar with this drug. However, it looks like its etymology could possibly be like this: pro- + serin, from French serin (bird of the species serinus), from Latin sirena, from Latin siren (“Siren”), from Greek Σειρήν (“Siren”) from σειρά (“rope,” “cord”), from εἴρω (“fasten together”), from Proto-Indo-European *ser- (“thread”). Just a guess.

or else:

pro- + serine, from Latin sirena (“serine,” a nonessential amino acid, CH₂OH.CH(NH₂)COOH, found in most animal proteins, especially silk), from Latin sericus (“silken”), from Latin Sēres (the northern Chinese people along the Silk Road), from Ancient Greek Σῆρες (Sêres, “the Chinese”), plural of Σήρ (Sḗr, “the Chinese”), possibly from Old Chinese 絲 (*si, “silk”). —Stephen (talk) 00:34, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

It may be likely connected to Latin n. serum and v. prōserō, or the contamination of the both. Your first suggestion is unlikely (bird?).--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 19:18, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

In this case, serinum probably comes from eserine, another name for neostigmine's parent molecule physostigmine. (Our article says that eserine in turn comes from esere, a native name for calabar bean, and a quick search does confirm that's an Efik name for the bean.) -165.234.252.11 (talk) 16:09, 11 June 2018 (UTC)