Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 February 3

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February 3

Games

Why, when talking about games, do people say, for example, "you will die" instead of "your character will die"? Saying it like that makes it sound like the person playing the game will die. JCI (talk) 00:12, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

See Anthropomorphism —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.97.245.5 (talk) 00:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

anthropomorphism isn't it. see first person —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.227.157 (talk) 00:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't see that first person is it either. It's related to the way people say actors did things in movies instead of saying the characters did things. For example, people might say, "Keanu Reeves killed Dennis Hopper in Speed", when actually Dennis Hopper is still alive and well, and Keanu Reeves has (to the best of my knowledge) never killed anyone, even in self-defense. I guess it's a kind of metonymy. —Angr 09:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Saying "I will kill your character", is needlessly destroying the suspension of disbelief and the role-playing. For some people the role-playing is am important part of the gaming experience.

Imagine you're describing a movie. "And then Harrison Ford's character pointed his gun at the stunt-man dressed as a swordsman, and fired a blank in the stunt-man's direction. Then the stuntman dropped his sword and fell backwards as if he had been shot. It's a very classic scene." APL (talk) 14:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

You mean in Not Actually From Indiana Ford and the Backlot Replica of a Temple of Doom? - Jmabel | Talk 21:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

It was in Raiders, actually. Algebraist 21:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe you. Is it in Temple that he tries to do the same thing but the gun jams or there are no bullets or something? I saw these so long ago (when they were new). - Jmabel | Talk 04:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

No, in Temple he goes for his gun but it's not there in the holster, so he beats the guy up, comes towards the camera, then realises he is now faced with hundreds of others, so he runs away.--KageTora (talk) 08:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

"Snow day"?

See Snow Day (film) for the movie released in 2000. Before that film came out, I never heard the expression snow day used to refer to a day when schools and other things were closed due to snow. The term itself seems to suggest a day when it snows. Obviously schools are not closed every time it snows. Except maybe in places like California, where they're not well equipped to deal with liberal amounts of snow (In January, 1996, I was in Chapel Hill, North Carolina (a charming town in many ways), when eight inches of snow fell there and remained frozen for a week or so. The number of snow plows there is very limited and most streets never got plowed at all—they just waited for the snow to melt a week later—and even thoroughfares had to wait a day or two or even three. I never appreciated how efficiently ice and snow are cleared from all paved surfaces in the North until I saw that not happening, and the consequent traffic paralysis.). So I'm thinking: maybe the term "snow day", when used to denote a day when things are canceled because of snow, is part of the vernacular language in places like California where they actually do shut down schools and other things every time it snows.

Does anyone know anything about the geographic extent of that usage? Where is the term used in that sense and where isn't it? Michael Hardy (talk) 03:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

It's reasonably familiar to me (in southeast England). Algebraist 03:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

It's the norm in western New York, Buffalo, etc. There, of course, a Snow Day is not every day that has snow--just those on which schools are closed. Pfly (talk) 04:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Quite familiar in the places I've lived in the midwestern United States (St. Louis, Chicago), though mostly used by schoolkids to describe their "holiday". Schools to which significant numbers of students are transported in schoolbuses are more likely to cancel classes when there's a snowfall. (The elementary school I attended, to which most kids walked, almost never had snow days—less than a handful of times while I was there—whereas Catholic schools and schools out in the far suburbs used to get them several times a year.) Deor (talk) 04:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I've lived in Illinois, Tennessee, and now Vermont. I've heard the term used in all three. I used it when I was a kid in the 70s, so it goes back at least that far. And yes, it's not just a "day with snow" it means that something, most always school, has been canceled due to the snow. And warmer places aren't the only places that experience it. Vermont school kids have snow days too, it's just that it usually takes a bit more snow than more southern areas for the schools to actually cancel classes for that day. Dismas|^(talk) 04:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I used the term in Michigan. I recall watching the morning news intently and praying for snow days. StuRat (talk) 04:53, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I live in North Carolina now, and have lived in New Hampshire, Delaware, and Illinois before. The term has been ubiquitous in all four locations. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:39, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm in Ontario, and agree with the above. Snow days were pretty rare though, we'd need a couple of feet of snow overnight first... Adam Bishop (talk) 08:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't remember such a thing ever happening when I was a schoolboy in southern Ontario in the 1960s and early 1970s (nor before that when I lived in Edmonton, Alberta). I certainly never knew the term "snow day" then. If it was a school day, you went to school, what else? --Anonymous, 08:45 UTC, February 3, 2009.

I never heard "snow day" while growing up in Detroit and in southern Maine, but it's very common in the Washington DC area as shorthand for "a day when the snow is enough to close schools and sometimes workplaces, and to cancel scheduled events." Of course, it sometimes seems that local weather reporters begin hyperventilating if it gets cloudy in West Virginia. --- OtherDave (talk) 14:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Here in Massachusetts, days with school cancellations are almost exclusively called "Snow days". Even when the weather in question is actually ice or sleet or something. In fact, a day off due to extreme flooding or some other dangerous weather event might still be called a "Snow day", though I'm sure some people would try some awkward construction like "flooding day".

Day's off from work or other activities might also be called a "snow day", but other phrases might be used instead. APL (talk) 14:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

See the following.

• Weather-related cancellation#Snow days
• Snow day (meteorology)
• wikt:en:snow day

-- Wavelength (talk) 17:32, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you to all who replied. Hollywood will keep making the usage more geographically extensive, so hard problems on what usage prevails where will gradually disappear. Michael Hardy (talk) 02:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Why not consult that font of all information lexicological, the Oxford English Dictionary? The on line version (access code required) defines "snow day" as follows: "n. U.S. a day on which school is cancelled due to snowfall or other inclement weather; such a cancellation; also in extended use." The earliest printed source given is a New York Times article from 1951, which stated "Embedded deeply into the routine of the state educational system are a couple of major, red letter events, known as *Snow Days," and, lest the OED be accused of being fuddy-duddy, it goes on to cite the Simpsons episode where Homer averts a snow day by plowing the school road. Ecphora (talk) 03:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Hallmark-quality?

In here it mentions: "hallmark-quality". What is that?96.53.149.117 (talk) 04:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Hallmark: A mark used to stamp precious metal articles that meet established standards of quality or excellence. StuRat (talk) 04:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Now linked. --Anon, 08:47 UTC, February 3, 2009.

Thanks. "Hallmark: When you care enough to mint the very best." :-) StuRat (talk) 19:17, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Across-the-board?

What does "across-the-board" mean: Silver#Folklore_and_popular_culture?96.53.149.117 (talk) 05:38, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

The phrase means "in all cases". Dismas|^(talk) 08:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Belgian surname: Nagant

Is the final letter of Nagant pronounced or not? (I need to transcribe this name into Hebrew according to the phonology, not a transliteration per its spelling.) -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 09:10, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I would guess not, but names sometimes break the usual spelling-to-pronunciation rules of French. (For example, the final "s" of Saint-Saëns is pronounced.) —Angr 09:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know, in the name of the Russian rifle, Mosin-Nagant, [[1]], the final letter is not pronounced. By the way, many Belgian names have both German and French pronunciations. --Omidinist (talk) 12:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Hebrew Wikipedia also has an article on the Russian rifle; there Nagant is transliterated נגאן. —Angr 12:51, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I've only ever known it as Nagan, or was that the pistol?--KageTora (talk) 07:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Looking for a word

What word can I use to describe the individual trials made during and experiment? For example, if I was carrying out a specific experiment which involved the use of reacting solutions which I would place in a beaker, I would want to rinse the beaker after each ______ to ensure that it is clean at the start of each ______. --RMFan1 (talk) 10:14, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Run? You might ask at the science desk. —Angr 10:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

What's wrong with the word you used yourself – trial? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I would second that. The individual iterations of an experiment are almost universally refered to as "trials". --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I wasn't sure if maybe there was a better or more specific word for this than trial --RMFan1 (talk) 16:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

What about reaction? The beaker was rinsed after each reaction was completed, to ensure that it was clean at the start of the next reaction. For biological experiments: incubation. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 22:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

You should ask the guys who invented WD-1 through WD-39...

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 03:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

That would be Norm Larsen. He's dead, alas. Algebraist 11:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Besides "run" and "trial", a third possibility is "test". However, that might also apply to just one phase of each run, the phase where you determine the results. --Anonymous, 07:02 UTC, February 4, 2009.

Reaction? --Kjoonlee 15:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

"Parte presa"? (Venetian decree)

The term "parte presa" is a name for a type of decree or proclamation issued in Venice in the 16th to 18th centuries. What does "parte presa" literally mean in this context? Also what does "l'anderà parte" mean in such a decree? Ecphora (talk) 05:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm wondering if "l'anderà parte" could mean "the other part" or "the other party" (with a German derivation). An example for context might be useful. - Jmabel | Talk 21:36, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

"Parte presa" literally means 'part taken' both in the modern, but also the older meaning of the word 'part' - which is 'side in a dispute'. (and the original sense of 'take part in a discussion' - 'taking part' meant 'taking sides'). So I'd assume "parte presa" would be a decree that ruled on some dispute to the advantage of one party over another (which would be 'l'anderà parte'). --130.237.179.182 (talk) 22:13, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I think this is on the right track. The decrees, all in Italian (or Venetian) are not easy for me to read, but they seem to involve a description of some public problem (e.g., certain people are not paying their taxes) followed by a formulaic "L'andera parte" in which the govt. agency issuing the decree announces the remedy. It seems, therefore, in this context, the title "part taken" (as well as the "andera parte") refers to the action (or position) taken by the issuing agency. It may well be that these decrees reflect terminology used earlier where there were two parties in dispute. Thanks for the help. (If anyone has any further thoughts, I would appreciate it.) Ecphora (talk) 00:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This [2] (under August 14th) has "l'andera parte" as possibly meaning secondly. DuncanHill (talk) 00:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Notice that the expression "parte presa" was especially used in the title of the final documents of a decision-maker council. Thus it means: "Choosen side (by the council etc, in occasion of etc)", and what is the decision taken, it is explained in the following text. (The Italian word "parte", and the English "part", "party", and many other as well, come from the Latin "pars"... why German derivation?). "Anderà" (still used in venetian dialect; "andrà", in modern Italian) is the future tense of the verb "andare" (to go), thus literaly means "(it) will go", "it will happen". The expression "l'anderà parte (che)" is used in these documents, to fix the future applications of the decision in the described circumstances: the idea is: "it will be done in such a way (that)" or "it will be done according to the party (that)".--pma (talk) 00:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Feminine equivalent of "emasculate"

To emasculate means something like to take the masculinity out of something, right? Is there a feminine equivalent of it, i.e. to take the femininity out of something? At first, I looked at "effeminate", but that has the opposite meaning (it means like a man having untypical feminine qualities); so I am lost. In terms of those high school analogy questions, male : emasculate :: female : ____ ? =) --71.106.173.110 (talk) 20:13, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

See "Castration". To emasculate means literally to castrate; the figurative uses came later. The Latin word meant "castrate". The practice has a long history; and the word and its connotations are rooted in it, and its effects are plain to see. Not so for the female. There is no convenient way to remove the gonads of a female (whereas in the male it is a simple matter and an operation with a fair chance of success even without antisepsis or anesthesia). There is no equivalent term for the female because the two processes are far from equivalent, and the literal form was unheard of until quite recently, so there is no term ready. I would say "defeminize", I guess, if I had to go there, and the Oxford English Dictionary supports me. (the OED, incidentally, now lists only the form in "-ize" and not "-ise" by convention).

By the way, "emasculate" is also an adjective meaning "displaying unwanted feminine characteristics". --Milkbreath (talk) 20:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Possibly "de-feminize"? (Ah, I see the same was buried in Milkbreath's response, without a hyphen. That makes two independent votes for that.) - Jmabel | Talk 21:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

The only word I've actually seen used for this is 'unsex', by Lady Macbeth. Algebraist 21:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

There is a verb "to effeminate" (pronounced analagously with "to emasculate") which I was hoping might be a contender. I thought it might mean to remove the femininity from a woman (as emasculate means to remove the masculinity from a man). But, alas, it doesn't. It means to add femininity to a man. So it seems a man can be either emasculated or effeminated, but a woman ... (thinks) ... is complete and needs nothing done to her. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

How about "masculinize" ? For example, "after menopause, the lack of estrogen can masculinize a woman's appearance (such as with facial hair)". If there's a continuum between feminine and masculine, then more of one means less of the other. StuRat (talk) 04:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Degynerate? FreeMorpheme (talk) 15:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Handwell

What is 'handwell' referring to in this article? Nadando (talk) 22:03, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

The Toronto Star says handwells are "utility-access cavities in the sidewalk, usually covered by metal plates." --- OtherDave (talk) 01:56, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

a.k.a manhole: although the photo implies they are smaller. Do we need a handwell redirect or mention at manhole? Gwinva (talk) 02:56, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

A manhole is so named (or was so named before it became politically incorrect) because it's big enough for, and intended for, a man to go in. And a handwell... you figure it out. One common size is about 6 inches (15 cm) across. --Anonymous, 07:05 UTC, February 4, 2009.

Manholes are also usually on the street, and these are on the sidewalk. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:18, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I had figured out the difference in size, but the principle is the same: they are both "utility-access cavities in the [sidewalk], usually covered by metal plates." Can we really generalise that manholes are on the street? I've seen them in footpaths (sidewalks), alleyways, driveways, parking lots, courtyards etc etc... Gwinva (talk) 20:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

And conversely, near where I live in Toronto there are what appear to be handwells in the streets. --Anon, 22:42 UTC, February 4, 2009.

Yeah and now that I think of it there are sometimes manholes on the sidewalks in Toronto too. Oh well. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)