Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 November 24

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

November 24

The Khmer population in Buriram Province of Thailand

Does anyone here know why the Khmer percentage of the total population in Buriram Province in Thailand skyrocketed between 1990 and 2000? It increased from 0.3% in 1990 to 27.6% in 2000:

Northern_Khmer_people#Demographics

Did a lot of Khmer people move to Buriram province between 1990 and 2000? Or did something else happen there during this time frame? Futurist110 (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

I know Buriram only slightly, but in the absence of any well-informed comments, I'll blunder in. In my unsourced experience, it's always been a very Khmer part of Thailand, so I'm quite sure the 0.3% was an underreporting. Why I can't say, but factors might include the Thaification policy of suppressing minority languages (which has never really ended, but is less oppressive than in the past), and the relatively recent end at that time of military rule (ha ha). That doesn't explain the difference from the neighbouring provinces, but that might come down to details of local politics at the time. So basically I don't think anything "happened" except a change in the political climate. Henry^Flower 20:50, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for this information. It's very interesting that Buriram Province had severe Khmer under-reporting in 1990 while other Thai provinces with large Khmer populations did not and that the under-reporting in Buriram Province didn't occur again in 2000. Futurist110 (talk) 03:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

1875 railroad route

What railroad would the king have followed on this route to and from west and east coast described on Kalākaua's 1874–75 state visit to the United States#Train trip across America (December 5–11, 1874) and Kalākaua's 1874–75 state visit to the United States#Train trip homewards (January 10–20, 1875)? Asking any railroad/train enthusiasts who might know the exact route taken based on the towns he passed. The goal is to create a precise map of his journey.KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:11, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Not an expert, but you may want to look at First Transcontinental Railroad which was completed in 1869. Alansplodge (talk) 10:00, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

I delved into this when writing the article. The short of it, is that there were multiple railroad lines involved. Private rail cars were provided to Kalakaua, sometimes courtesy of the railroad, and sometimes by individuals. I could not tie it down reasonably enough for the article or a specific map. Please see Commons: Category:Old railroad maps of the United States. — Maile (talk) 13:40, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

As you saw, the so-called "first transcontinental railroad" refers to the combination of the Central Pacific Railroad and Union Pacific Railroad companies, which connected the US west coast to the existing and complex network in the eastern states. He would certainly have followed this route as far as eastern Wyoming. Now, I have the 1948 Handy Railroad Atlas of the United States (reprinted by Kalmbach some decades later, date not shown). This reference shows a triangle of Union Pacific lines, branching off the main line at Cheyenne and at Julesburg, Colorado (by the Nebraska boundary), and joining at LaSalle, Colorado, from which a Union Pacific line continues south to Denver. If these lines all existed and belonged to the UP by 1874 then I guess he would have gone via Cheyenne and LaSalle to Denver and via LaSalle and Julesburg to continue east, so he didn't have to change railways too many times. But I don't know if they did, and I don't know if Aurora was on that route. There were other railroads operating north and northeast from Denver in 1948 and I'm sure some of them would have existed by 1874.

The Union Pacific main line east from Nebraska today continues to Chicago and would be the obvious route as far as Chicago if it was open and belonged to the UP by 1874, but again, I don't know if that's the case.

After Chicago, in 1948 the rest of the trip could all have been on the Pennsylvania Railroad as it served Chicago, Ft. Wayne, and Washington, but once again, I don't know whether this was the case in 1874. And even in 1948 it would have involved an inconveniently long route; switching to the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad in Pittsburgh would be more direct.

In short, to do better than guesswork (for the route after Cheyenne) we would need contemporary references, for example, newspaper reports saying which stations the train passed through. --76.69.46.228 (talk) 01:03, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Things that young adults do

What things do people in their teens and twenties do? 81.104.74.28 (talk) 11:27, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Try Teenagers and UK culture. Alansplodge (talk) 12:40, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

If you were ever one yourself, what did you do? —Tamfang (talk) 00:25, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't say anything. Please, give me a list of the things they do. 81.104.74.28 (talk) 15:08, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Here's a short list of some of the things people in their teens and twenties do: inhale, exhale, eat, drink, sleep, dress, walk … You will note that the answer is specifically addressing the question, as well as being totally useless. That's because the question is so vague that it cannot be answered without clarification. DOR (HK) (talk) 13:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Did Jewish men wear their hair long in the first century?

Temerarius (talk) 17:32, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Probably not often. Paul, who was a first-century Jew, wrote in one of his letters: "Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him?" (1 Corinthians 11:14) - Lindert (talk) 17:59, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The article Depiction of Jesus has some insights as to how the "Jesus look" in art evolved. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:05, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

That article says that early Christian artwork shows him with short hair and clean shaven. Whether that reflects what Jewish men would have done is arguable. It's hard to distinguish what is propaganda - differentiating Jesus from Jews. I think the quotation from Paul is a better way forward, but he was also a propagandist in this respect. I think you could expect that men would have had luxuriant payot at the very least. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 20:11, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

However, see Nazirite. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.131.235 (talk) 20:50, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Yup. If you showed up in first century Palestine, you'd see a few men walking around with long hair, because they were Nazirites. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 21:58, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

They were not supposed to touch wine or go near the dead, and there's no mention of him making the kinds of offerings Nazirites were supposed to make. Basically there just is no overlap and it would very probably be mentioned if it were so. Dmcq (talk) 11:19, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's arguing that Jesus was a Nazirite; the OP asked about Jewish men in general. Jesus was mentioned as an example of a 1st-century Jew about whom a lot has been written, but as alluded to above, the reliability of (long post-facto) descriptions of him cannot be relied on because they may have been contrived for factional reasons.

[Edited to add] I have a book which presents the speculation (amongst various others) that the later descriptions/depictions of Jesus as a tall handsome man were a cover-up for 'his' actually being a short ugly woman with Turner syndrome, as a result of 'his' parthenogenetic birth. (If you want some laughs, it's The Sacred Virgin and the Holy Whore by Anthony Harris, Sphere Books 1988 ISBN 0-7221-4197-1) {The poster formerly known as 87.981.230.195} 90.200.131.235 (talk) 17:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

In 1st century A.D. Judea, men who wanted to show that they were mature adult responsible members of the Jewish community (as opposed to callow immature youths, or men who identified more with Hellenistic civilization than Jewish) commonly wore beards, and that included traditional Jewish religious leaders. Hair would have been long by 1950s standards, but that's true for most historical eras... AnonMoos (talk) 05:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

"men who identified more with Hellenistic civilization than Jewish) commonly wore beards" But many Greeks were also proud of their beards.: "The ancient Greeks regarded the beard as a badge or sign of virility; in the Homeric epics it had almost sanctified significance, so that a common form of entreaty was to touch the beard of the person addressed. See, for example, Homer Iliad 1:500-1 It was only shaven as a sign of mourning, though in this case it was instead often left untrimmed. A smooth face was regarded as a sign of effeminacy. The Spartans punished cowards by shaving off a portion of their beards. From the earliest times, however, the shaving of the upper lip was not uncommon. Greek beards were also frequently curled with tongs." Dimadick (talk) 09:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Homer was a long time before the 1st-century AD (at least 750 years). Under the Roman Empire, statues of Zeus were bearded, and beardedness was associated with certain groups (see Misopogon), but most men who identified with Greco-Roman culture were clean-shaven... AnonMoos (talk) 15:20, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Society of Arts Gold Medal

According to an article by William Montgomerie (on whom I am trying to write a page) he was awarded the "Society of Arts Gold Medal". Is this the Royal Society, and if so which medal is it? I can't find it either on Wikipedia or the RSA site. Several other sources say the medal was awarded in 1844. SpinningSpark 20:21, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

It's unlikely to be the Royal Society, who to the best of my knowledge never had "Arts" included in its formal or informal names. The Royal Society of Arts (in full, The Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce) received its Royal Charter in 1847, shortly after the date in question, so "Society of Arts" would be a likely term of reference in 1844, and it did award various medals and other prizes from its 1754 foundation, one instance being a silver medal awarded to Edward landseer in 1812/3.

Although there may have been various Arts-invested societies around at the time, I assume the William Montgomerie in question is the surgeon who distinguished himself in Singapore: this website refers specifically to his medal being from "The Society of Arts in London", which is unlikely to refer to any other than that which became the RSA shortly thereafter. It would however be nice to add more details about its early system of medals, etc. to our article on it. Unfortunately its online Transactions stop at 1843, just too early for Mongomerie's medal, but a thorough perusal therein would likely shed light on its general prize and medal giving activities in its pre-Royal period.

[Edited to add] Hold the presses! This entry from the 1843 Transactions refers to his award of a gold medal regarding the cultivation of nutmegs (rather than for the uses of Gutta percha). I daresay it's reasonable that he received more than one gold medal (or other awards) from them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.131.235 (talk) 21:19, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I found that myself in the meantime. There doesn't appear to be a definitive list of medal recipients, at least, not available online. SpinningSpark 23:13, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Incidentally, I see that the Gutta-percha article dates Montgomerie's gold medal (for medical uses of that substance) to 1843 (with a citation), not 1844. It would be nice to sort out at least his full list of medals, etc. I wonder if the RSA itself could help? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.131.235 (talk) 17:23, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Donald trump and the mainstream media

Why has there been more negative than positive coverage of Donald Trump from the mainstream media?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.28.56 (talk • contribs)

Because he does more negative than positive things. --Jayron32 00:30, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I am not certain about that. In Greek television news, I have seen reporters using Trump's announcements as comic relief amidst typically grimmer news of the day. In other cases, the newscasters and reporters laugh uncontrollably for a few minutes in reaction to what the guy is saying. Dimadick (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Why Trump Is Winning and the Press Is Losing. Alansplodge (talk) 11:00, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

It is rather worrying. A subdued press under the control of the government is what China has and what Trump seems to want. Next step would be social conditioning, anyone not toeing the line can't book a flight or use a train. Dmcq (talk) 11:30, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

• A lot of the negativity is due to the fact that positive news is boring, while negative news is exciting... ie by being negative the TV media boosts ratings and print media sells more papers. Higher ratings and more papers sold translates more advertising revenue. Blueboar (talk) 12:21, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
• I suspect you'd find plenty of negative coverage of Trump long before he ever became a candidate. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:44, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

"Debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open, and that it may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public officials". William J. Brennan, Jr., Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States (1964).

One of many similar sentiments from Wikiquote:Freedom of the press. Alansplodge (talk) 16:47, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Where is Xenere (in Iraq?)?

(mentioned here)

Thanks. Apokrif (talk) 23:28, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

It's a place called Khanera in the Soran District of the Erbil Governorate, near the Iraq-Iran border. I don't see anything about it on Wikipedia but it's on this United Nations Joint Humanitarian Information Centre map. What ends up as "Xenere" or "Khanera" in German and English could be many things in Arabic or Kurdish, so I'm not sure what the original spelling is... Adam Bishop (talk) 13:47, 25 November 2018 (UTC)