Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2010 December 28

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December 28

The King's Speech

In the film The King's Speech, at George V's deathbed scene, David, Prince of Wales and Bertie, Duke of York are in attendance. In addition, there were two other people, unnamed. I am assuming that the woman was Mary, Princess Royal and Countess of Harewood, though she isn't identified, but would the male have been Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, or Prince George, Duke of Kent? Or could they have been other people altogether? Does anybody know which of the members of the Royal Family were at George V's deathbed? Or is the scene just fiction altogether? Corvus cornix_talk 00:08, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the King's doctor, who is supposed to have hastened the Royal end by administering morphine, so news of the death would appear in the Times? --TammyMoet (talk) 13:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The Hunchback of Notre Dame: Frollo's last words

Is there any passage in The Bible in which the words 'And He shall smite the wicked, and cast them into the fiery pit' appears? Or is there anything like it? Quotations would be much appreciated. Thank you.--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 01:19, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Has to be from Revelation, or a paraphrasing thereof... :Revelation 20 is close, but it's possible that exact quote is from a different book.[1][2] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:20, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll read it and see what I can find.--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 01:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It's from Isaiah 11.[3] Pretty much the same question was asked at answers.com about 6 months ago:[4] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:29, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The King James Version is closer to the quote:[5] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:33, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't seem to say anything in the book...is that from one of the movies? Adam Bishop (talk) 01:36, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Googling the passage earlier, it's apparent that it came from the Disney cartoon version from a decade or two ago. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Sports jerseys cities

What's up with the cities and the names of their sports team like Detroit has two teams that are wild cats (lions and tigers), Atlanta has teams that birds like Falcons, Hawks and Thrashers, Chicago has Cubs and Bears, Houston's rockets and astros, Buffalo Bills and sabres, and etc? to have common themes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.43.123 (talk) 03:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Not sure about the others, but Houston's franchises were probably named because of the NASA connection. Dayewalker (talk) 03:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

There may be a couple things in play here (pun intended). First, if you're creating a team or moving one into town, you want to try to capitalize on the popularity of the original. If I'm remembering my history correctly, the Chicago Cubs were there first. So when the Bears moved to started in Chicago (previously the St. Louis Cardinals, though I may be mis-remembering my history), they likely wanted to get some publicity out of the tie-in. Secondly, you may be over-emphasizing this. Take Chicago as an example. The Bears and Cubs aren't the only two teams in town. There are several non-bear related teams, e.g. Chicago Blackhawks, Chicago Sting (now gone), Chicago Fire S.C., Chicago White Sox. Dismas|^(talk) 03:23, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Moreover, wild cats as well as birds are very popular names for American sports teams (Panthers, Cougars, Jaguars, Bengals ... Eagles, Seahawks, Cardinals, Orioles ...). So the statistical likelihood of a place having more than one team sharing its name with a cat or bird is significant. And, as pointed out by Dismas, most of the cities you named have other, non-avian and non-feline clubs, which you omitted in your question. Finally, I don't understand the connection you're implying between the Bills and the Sabres. One was named after a famous person's nickname, the other after a weapon, or am I mistaken? ---Sluzzelin talk 03:36, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

There is also this kind of bill, but that's not the intended meaning of their nickname. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:11, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

There could be entire articles written on this subject. Often the names come from something to do with the city, or some other characteristic of the team. Any kind of predator, be it big cats or raptors, make for good symbols. Maybe a few points to touch upon:

Atlanta: The Falcons were an expansion team in 1966. I don't know why they settled on that name. The St. Louis Hawks moved to Atlanta in 1968. They had begun as a team called the "Blackhawks", which were Native Americans.

Buffalo: There are really only two local possibilities for Buffalo. One is the Bisons, which the various minor league baseball teams have used almost from day one. The other is the Bills (as in William Frederick "Buffalo Bill" Cody), which the various pro football teams have used almost from day one. The minor league hockey team had also been called the Bisons. They chose a different symbol, the Sabre, for the NHL expansion team.

Cardinals: Both the baseball and the football team were named for their team colors. The football team, which began in Chicago, wore a somewhat deeper shade of red at one time. Both the St. Louis Cardinals and the Chicago Cardinals eventually adopted the redbird as their mascot or symbol. The Chicago Cardinals moved to St. Louis for a few decades, coincidentally putting two Cardinals teams in that city; and then to Arizona.

Chicago: The Cubs were dubbed with that name by sportswriters in the early 1900s. It suggested a group of young players, as did their alternate nickname at the time, the Colts. The Bears began as the Staley Company team in Decatur. They retained the "Staleys" nickname their first year in Chicago, and then named themselves for the Bears.

Detroit: The Tigers were named for a Michigan-based military unit called the Detroit Light Guard, whose nickname was "The Tigers". Tigers are presumed to be fierce and powerful. The Lions were named in reference to the Tigers.

Houston's space-related teams indeed refer to the Johnson Space Center's presence in Houston.

New York: The Giants baseball team acquired that nickname in the 1880s as a result of bragging by their manager about his "big fellows", his "giants". The New York Giants football club were named for the baseball club, which eventually moved to San Francisco.

New York again: The Yankees got their name because they were the American League team, i.e. "Americans", i.e. "Yankees". The Mets were the Metropolitans. Various teams were named with that same rhyme, including the Jets and the Nets.

Native Americans: A frequent theme for team nicknames. The Boston Braves were named for the Tammany Hall symbol, one of whose members was the owner of the Braves when they adopted that nickname in 1912. The Cleveland club was inspired to rename themselves the Indians in reference to the Braves winning the 1914 World Series, hoping it would bring some luck. The Boston Redskins were named for the Braves, and later moved to Washington.

Sox: This is a long story, and I'll try to keep it short: The first professional baseball team was the Cincinnati Red Stockings, and their popularity led through a somewhat indirect route to the moderne teams called the Cincinnati Reds, Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox, and also St. Louis Browns (originally Brown Stockings) who are now the Baltimore Orioles.

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:42, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

To be completely correct, Blackhawk is the name of one particular Native American. Rmhermen (talk) 15:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

True. Both the Chicago Blackhawks and the Tri-Cities Blackhawks were named in reference to him. In any case, hopefully the OP understands, and if not, he can ask more questions. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The original indoor arena in Anaheim, California was The Pond. The teams tended to be aquatic themed: Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Anaheim Piranhas, Anaheim Bullfrogs, etc. Corvus cornix_talk 19:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It appears that the NHL club was named before the arena was. The club, in turn, was named (as I recall) from a fictional hockey team in a Disney film. The bottom line, though, is that there's usually an interesting story behind the choice of nicknames (and team colors also) by any team, at either the professional or the amateur level. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:36, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Actually I think The Pond got its name because The Ducks played there, but the other teams followed. Corvus cornix_talk 19:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes; though I've not looked into it further, I expect that's a safe assumption. The evolution of nicknames and colors is interesting. Many nicknames and colors and mascots arose from something to do with the city, or from the team itself. Others were copycats of successful teams. Thanks to the great fame of the original Cincinnati Red Stockings, a number of other teams (1) turned professional; and (2) adopted X as their team colors and "X Stockings" as their team nickname. Others, especially at the high school and college level, adopted "fierce" nicknames, referring to dangerous animals or macho historical figures such as pirates or warriors. It does lead to oddities, such as both the men's and the women's teams at South Carolina being called the "Gamecocks", a usage which would not stand up to close scrutiny. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:10, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

There were once the New York Mets, New York Jets, New York Nets and New York Sets (World Team Tennis). Sometimes football teams were named after baseball teams when baseball was the dominant pro sport and pro football was just getting started. The Chicago Bears have been mentioned. The New York (Football) Giants were named after the New York baseball Giants, who now play in San Francisco. The Washington Redskins originated in Boston, where they were named after the Boston Braves (now in Atlanta). The NFL once had a Brooklyn Dodgers and later a New York Yanks. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:44, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Yep. I did mention the Giants and Redskins. As you say, there were also football teams named Dodgers and Yankees/Americans/Yanks; and there was an NHL club called the New York Americans. There was also the minor league baseball team in Toronto, the Maple Leafs, a name which was later adopted by the St. Patricks. The Pittsburgh Steelers were originally the Pirates. The Boston Redskins were actually called the Braves their first season. The NFL also had a short-lived Cincinnati Reds franchise. Why the other legacy teams in Cincinnati called themselves the Bengals is unknown (to me, anyway). There are a number of other examples like those Reds. There was also a Pittsburgh Pirates for awhile in the NHL. The NHL Rangers and the MLB Rangers were both named, indirectly for the same iconic expression. On the flip side, the MLB Colorado Rockies were named for the defunct NHL Colorado Rockies. On and on it goes. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:02, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

See Cincinnati Bengals (1937–41). I read once that the team got its name from the famous Bengal tigers at the local zoo, but that doesn't seem to be the case, since the team was there in 1937. The Cleveland Browns got their name from team owner Paul Brown. Corvus cornix_talk 23:35, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

There are very few teams that were named for an individual. The Browns were one, never mind that their main color is orange. The unofficial nickname for the Dodgers, the "Robins", came from affection for Wilbert Robinson. The Cubs' old nickname, Colts, was originally "Anson's Colts", for their patriarch Cap Anson. Before the Boston Braves where called the "Braves", they were at one point unofficially labeled the "Doves" due their owner being named "Dovey". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:45, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The "Doves" eh? That'll inspire fear in the opposing team! Dismas|^(talk) 03:18, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Prior to 1907, the Boston NL team had worn red stockings and trim. That year, they switched to an all-white uniform, which inspired the name "Doves" from the owner's name. After the season, the Boston AL team switched from blue trim and stockings to red trim and stockings and named themselves the Red Sox. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:44, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

When the United States Football League was formed in 1983, the Oakland franchise was named the Invaders, which rhymes with Raiders. Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 04:25, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Use of song in film Fallen

Resolved

Does anyone happen to know why the Rolling Stones song Time is on My Side was chosen to be played in the Denzel Washington film Fallen to signify Satanic possession? Thanks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Hmm yes, we seem to have a couple of uncited references to this, in Time Is on My Side#In film and television and also in Sympathy for the Devil, with a general and rather woolly assertion that this was done because the Stones' image has associations with Satanism. I can't find anything online that would explain it better, and it could be that it was indeed chosen for that reason (perhaps Sympathy for the Devil was dismissed as a tad unsubtle?) The lyrics of Time is on My Side do express a kind of creepy stalkerish inevitability of the "it doesn't matter what you do; I'll get you in the end" type, and this could fit with the idea of people being taken over and possessed by a demon at will. Karenjc 13:36, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The reason I ask is that when I was about 13 I had a very frightening dream where that particular song was played over and over. I thought it a rather strange coincidence that it was used in this film to indicate Satanic possession.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:15, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

According to this review, part of the movie plot is that "....they learn that the killer's spirit is passed from one human host to another and that they must find a way to 'kill' it before it kills any more innocent people. But time is on his side - he has been around for thousands of years...." Hence, the song matches the plot. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:29, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thanks Ghmyrtle. It's strange I heard that same song in my nightmare back in 1971!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:34, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

That seems to be it, Ghmyrtle. The description here says that the demon Azazel does explicitly speak the words "Time is on my side" to the hero, through the condemned killer he is currently possessing, very early in the film. And yes - very weird that it was also the soundtrack to Jeanne's nightmare. Karenjc 18:43, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the replies. My question has been answered. In my dream, my Stones' High Tide and Green Grass LP was on the turntable, and Time is on My Side was the only track that was played-repeatedly. Keith Richards also featured prominently in my dream. Weird.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:53, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Kerri Kenney vs Kristen Johnston

Can someone please clear up who does the voice of Warmonga in Kim Possible? Some sights say it is Carrie Kenny, the one who voices the bebes, and others say it is Kristen Johnston. Who is it for sure? Carrie or Kristen? N.I.M. (talk) 23:45, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

As usual, it would be better to ask people that know. Try Kerri's Twitter page to ask Kerri if she did the voice. -- kainaw™ 19:57, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Can't, even when i do the audio challenge, it won't let me create an account. I have done the challenge 24 times over, and came to the conclusion that i'll get an account the same day i dance with Kerri Kenney herself to this. Is there any other way i can find out who voices warmonga for sure? N.I.M. (talk) 23:12, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I created an account very easily (first try) using the audio challenge. You have made a habit out of replying to direct help with helplessness. This is not a place to ask people to search the Internet for you. If you need help using your screen reader, then ask for that first. -- kainaw™ 01:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

No, it's not that, in fact, it's my server, which won't allow me to do that. but enough about that, who voices warmonga? N.I.M. (talk) 06:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

It also says that my e-mail is taken, when i'm the only one who created a twitter, unless my aunt accidentaly put her e-mail which is similar to mine in the box. can't create account, so don't mention twitter again, pleaseeeee! N.I.M. (talk) 06:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

So, your aunt has a twitter account. She can ask the person directly. Instead, you want us to answer a question that we cannot answer because nobody here was in the recording studio when the show was made. -- kainaw™ 13:08, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

So you're assuming that she is always free and that she knows everything about twitter? don't assume that just because she has a twidder account, that she knows about it. She isn't good with computers. I told her to contact Kerri and she said that she's "nervous about talking to celeberties", so that is rendered impossible. Only one option: someone here help me. Kaynaw needs to consider the message i recently posted on his talk page. happy hollidays. N.I.M. (talk) 18:26, 30 December 2010 (UTC) I tried another google search, my friends tried, and they got nothing either. N.I.M. (talk) 22:29, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

These questions need to be posed to the people who have the answers. How we can be sure about this unless we ask the producers or the voice actors personally. The ref desk can help you research by pointing you in the right direction or answering your question if someone knows the answer. It is very unlikely that someone here is going to do the research for you. As it has been suggested, get a twitter account and try asking the people in question, or contact the producers of the show by email. --Leivick (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

pay attention. i just said i don't know how many times, my server and the sight of twitter won't let me create an account. judgement for the plaintif, in the payment of all users to quit telling me to create a twitter account. if you provide me with links (not a sight where you need an account, or imdb), then i'll be able to make the judgement of who does the voice. N.I.M. (talk) 01:27, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

We are paying attention. We're paying attention to a user whose sense of entitlement is causing him to be increasingly demanding, unreasonable, and rude.

You're asking very obscure questions that could probably be easily cleared up by communicating with the production team. Certainly you can't expect us to do that on your behalf because you can't effectively use your own technology?

Sure, that's easy for me to say, but constantly pleading helplessness is not a good way to make friends. You need to put in some effort to find solutions to your problems. (For instance, You suspect that your email account is already assigned to a twitter account, have you considered sending yourself a password reminder? Setting up a new email account? Asking a relative who also has a twitter account? If difficulties in these plans occur to you, don't come here and tell us about it, figure out how to solve them! ) APL (talk) 02:57, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, you may be able to contact director "Steve Loter" without too much trouble through the webcomic he writes [6]. If he can't answer your question off the top of his head, he could probably tell you who could. APL (talk) 03:08, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

E-mail sent, thanks for the link. N.I.M. (talk) 03:49, 31 December 2010 (UTC) It's kerri kenney, resolved, again, thanks for the link. N.I.M. (talk) 03:57, 31 December 2010 (UTC)