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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of off-season Pacific hurricanes/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Hahc21 10:02, 7 October 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of off-season Pacific hurricanes

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List of off-season Pacific hurricanes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): 12george1 (talk · contribs), CycloneIsaac (talk · contribs), and Yellow Evan (talk · contribs)

One day after reading the List of off-season Atlantic hurricanes, I noticed we did not have an article for the off-season tropical cyclones in the EPAC (East Pacific) basin. Therefore, I decided to create this article in December 2010, when Tropical Storm Omeka was active. This is also the last article needed to be upgraded before the off-season Pacific hurricanes can become a good topic. Because of improvements by myself and several other editors, I believe this article should be considered a Featured List. I will be co-noming this with two other editors – CycloneIsaac and YE. Finally, I would like to note that this will be a WikiCup nomination.--12george1 (talk) 03:45, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This wonderful piece of list. Upon the formation of Tropical Storm Omeka, GC was bored one day and decided to create a sandbox, little did he know it would turn out to be on FLC today. Therefore, Hink was bored and started checking user cotribs, and the two later did a collab; however, after a few edits my me in January, it was largely ignored before being moved to the mainspace in October, playing a small role in my WP:CUP epic run to the bronze medal in 2011. Then, my new friend, Cy10 discovered this listed and dabbed it with edit. Now, all three of us, here we are today. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:54, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Comments
Omekas dates need tweaking to reflect the heavily delayed Tropical Cyclone Report issued on it by the CPHC.
  • Should the dates start when the subtropical depression developed or when it crossed the International Dateline?--12george1 (talk) 16:36, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to see a better source than the whole of the Eastern Pacific Database to prove that Omeka is indeed the latest TC in the EPAC.
Please make sure you list the correct publisher for the Monthly Weather Review journals you cite, it should be the USWB and not AMS.
I think it would be better if you were too put 01E or One-E in rather than just #1.
Why are you using advisories to prove that Aletta 2012 existed and not the TCR.
Since we are not told what category the TC's are is the line "The category refers to the intensity on the Saffir–Simpson Hurricane Scale; TS stands for tropical storm, TD for tropical depression, and SS for subtropical cyclone" and the colours really needed?. If so please either add the categories back in and add the space needed between subtropical cyclone.
Eventually fixed.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 20:01, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe more comments later.Jason Rees (talk) 14:47, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by TheAustinMan
Perhaps you should link tropical cyclone and subtropical cyclone in the lead, this is pretty common with WP:WPTC lists and shouldn't be a problem here.
  • This was fixed by either CycloneIsaac or YE.--12george1 (talk) 18:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Per a press release from the NOAA, the region and tropical cyclone basin defined as the "East Pacific" stretches from North America westward to 140W, and is strictly north of the equator. Latin America, as stated in the lead, includes South America, but the official definition of the basin does not include areas south of the equator, so this would be confusing.
Changed to north. YE Pacific Hurricane 18:30, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The International Dateline does not strictly follow longitudinal paths in the coordinate system, so it curves around 180W to include some islands and countries. It only roughly follows the 180th meridian, so it's either the International Dateline or 180W as the CPAC's western boundary, not both.
I honeslty don't know here. It's not a major issues probs, it's not like Alaska gets cyclones. YE Pacific Hurricane 18:30, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's still incorrect. They aren't the same line, so it's one or the other, not both. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 18:41, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's the dateline IIRC, fixed. YE Pacific Hurricane 18:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The first paragraph, after the first reference, does not appear anywhere in the rest of the article and is unsourced. Where did you get that 99% of Pacific hurricanes form during the season limits, for example?
Removed. YE Pacific Hurricane 18:30, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The strongest hurricane between December to May was Hurricane Ekeka in 1992, which reached winds of 115 miles per hour (185 km/h). " → Since you use 'between' it should be 'December and May', not 'December to May'. You should also link Hurricane Ekeka, just like you did with Nina.
"The off-season represents about 1% of the storm recorded in the Pacific." → Make 'storm' plural.
Done.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 18:23, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"...reports seven off-season storms during the period 1900–1952..." → It's the period of 1900–1952.
Done.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 18:23, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"...SS for subtropical cyclone." → This does not appear on the chart nor does it appear in the article itself, so I don't know why this is here.
Removed.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 17:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Hurricane Nina in 1957 prompted evacuations and caused $100,000 (1957 USD) in damage." → Thre words. [to whom?] [where?]
"The unnamed tropical storm of 1996 killed two people when it sank a trimaran called the Solar Wind." → You should be specific and state that it was 'assumed' to have killed two people, since you say that in the data table.
"Of all cyclones during the off-season, the "Froc Cyclone" lasted longest;(References redacted) though reliable records indicate that Hurricane Alma in 1990 had the longest duration." → The way you word this sentence makes it seem like reliable records dispute that the Froc Cyclone lasted longest. You should indicate that Hurricane Alma had the longest duration after the inception of the Pacific HURDAT.
Reworded.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 19:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The year with the most off-season storms was tied between 1904 and 1992..." → These seasons should be linked if possible.

That's all I have for now, I will likely support when these qualms are fixed. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 17:57, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One issue I forgot to make note of. The table does not comply with WP:ACCESS for one reason in particular – a screen reader would not be able to tell the intensity-classification of a storm via the table alone. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 18:56, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 19:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Any more comments?—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 18:20, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@TheAustinMan and Jason Rees: It's been thirty days and you didn't give a comment since. Are you still doing the review?—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 22:41, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support and comments (since I have a hurricane-related FLC up).

  • The intro shouldn't say it's a list. Wikipedia isn't meant to be self-referential. I'd personally say "There have been X tropical cyclones" outside of the currently defined hurricane season.
  • Why do you mention subtropical cyclones in the lede?
    • I don't season any reason not to. Omeka had a subtropical origin. YE Pacific Hurricane 00:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • The article doesn't say as such though. If you're including subtropical, then Omeka's date should be December 18th, per the CPHC report. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:35, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • What about this? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:51, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • What about it? :P Tweaked Omeka's date. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:37, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yea, that's what I was referring to. I also think you should add a note that Omeka began as subtropical, so that first sentence of the article makes sense. In addition, I think you should have two listings for the dates, since Omeka exited the basin. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • Added a note.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 20:18, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • Now it implies it was subtropical in the WPAC on those dates. Can you go for something simpler? That it was subtropical from 18-20 in the CPAC, was in the WPAC from 20-22, then tropical from 22 onward in the CPAC? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:13, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
                • I added that, but I think that would make it even more confusing.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 17:57, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is "East" capitalized throughout the lede?
  • "Pacific hurricane season" - I'd link this.
  • You don't mention anything about the EPAC being limited to areas north of the equator.
  • "defines the season as occurring between May 15 (June 1 for the Central Pacific) and November 30 each calendar year" - since the lede is so short, you could afford to write this out.
  • "Only Hurricane Nina caused both property damage and fatalities, while remaining just offshore of the Hawaiian Islands. " - why comma?
  • Hurricane Ekeka in 1992 - link? Or did you avoid it because that was in the caption of the top-right image?
  • "Category 5 hurricane" - you never mention anything about SSHS in the lede...
  • "The off-season represents about 1% of storms recorded in the Pacific. - this is too WP:OR for my taste.
  • Fix the link for ref 3.
  • Were any of the storms in "Chronology" in the eastern Pacific proper?
    • Of course, but how is it worth mentioning really? The border between the two AOR's is just some arbitrary line. YE Pacific Hurricane 00:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Because some are mentioned by CPHC and some aren't. You have a notes section for a reason. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:35, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, as of this writing, Beryl 12 was monitored by the WPC, and not mentioned in the ATL one? Are you implying that should be noted in the ATL pages of well? Honestly, I don't think it's important. YE Pacific Hurricane 01:02, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • WPC? The CPAC and EPAC are two sub-basins. The ATL has no such distinction. And as I said, you have a notes section for a reason.--♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:51, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • Weather Prediction Center. We don't mention whether it formed in EPAC/CPAC in the List of Category 5 Pacific hurricanes or the List of Category 4 Pacific hurricane either. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:37, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • Neither of those have a notes section like this one does, and neither feature storms before the start of HURDAT. My confusion about WPC was its relevancy. Here, it'd make sense to note. For the January 1938 one, the MWR says "there were some evidences of the formation of a tropical LOW between the Revillagigedo Islands and Lower California" - so perhaps note the uncertainty? The MWR didn't definitively say it was a TC. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • Noted uncertainty.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 20:09, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
                • I think you should say that the MWR noted the uncertainty. And again, I think it should say it was in the eastern Pacific, not central. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:13, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A handful of these off-season cyclones have had impact on land or on people' - weak way to start the sentence.
  • "35 feet" --> "35 foot", or just "35 ft"
  • There is inconsistency how you handle USD, between Nina and Paka.
  • "Overall, Paka caused US$580 million in damage; enough to warrant retirement of the name "Paka"." - the last bit isn't a sentence, so the semicolon is inappropriate.
    • Yep, fixed.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail
      • "Overall, Paka caused $580 million (1997 USD) in damage, enough to warrant retirement of the name "Paka"" - no need to say the name twice. You can say "enough to warrant retirement of the name". --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Only one cyclone was reported in the two months of March and April." - you should say "one cyclone each" or something, since right now it implies just one from March to April.
  • In the third "Impact and records" paragraph, I'd love some durations in dates.
  • " However, no off-season tropical cyclones in the East Pacific have made landfall" - this was stated a few sentences prior.
  • "The year with the most off-season storms was tied between 1904 and 1992, with a total of two tropical cyclones forming in the off-season."

That's it. Generally a decent list. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • The article refers to cyclones, hurricanes, typhoons and tropical storms. I would like to see explanations of these terms and how they relate to each other.
  • All of these are simply various terms used to describe a tropical cyclone, depending on which region(s) of the world that storm takes place in.--12george1 (talk) 05:33, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reference to an 1823 cyclone appears to be a typo for 1832.

Otherwise it seems to me a good list. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:34, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harrias talk

Firstly, I will openly admit I know nothing about hurricanes, so I apologise if any of my comments are silly, or I'm asking for an explanation of the seemingly obvious.

  • The title of the article is "List of off-season Pacific hurricanes", but the first sentence states, "There have been 20 recorded tropical and subtropical cyclones that existed in the east Pacific basin outside of the official Pacific hurricane season." Does this article only refer to off-season hurricanes in the "east Pacific basin"? There is some discussion of a "Central Pacific", but no mention of a western or southern pacific. Are they beyond the scope of the article, or is it simply that all off-season hurricanes just happen to have occurred in the east?
    • Neither, they are not called "hurricanes" in the western and south pacific. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • The article should make this clear then, because it seems a glaring omission otherwise. Harrias talk 12:40, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think that's a bit overboard, but I added a wikilink that goes into this more detailed.
          • Following the wikilink provided, I reached the article Pacific hurricane, which states that "A Pacific hurricane, then, is a tropical cyclone in the northern Pacific Ocean east of 180°, or in the southern Pacific Ocean east of 160°E." Which seems to contradict the claim that they are not called "hurricanes" in the south Pacific. Also, to clarify, did all of the twenty exist in the "east Pacific basin", in which case, why is the "central Pacific" mentioned? I'm sorry to say that the links have just confused me more. Harrias talk 20:49, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • At times TC's are called hurricanes within South Pacific by various agencies (eg NOAA), however they are not included in this list because their mainly known as cyclones. Another reason is because the season in the Southern Hemisphere is the exact opposite to the Northern Hemisphere and thus would be better included in a List of off-season Southern hemisphere tropical cyclones than EPAC TCs. Also your other point basically boils down to the definition of the "Eastern Pacific basin" in the Northern Hemisphere which has a double meaning thanks to the US - the first meaning is the Americas to 140W, which is the one commonly used rather than the other one which is the Americas - 180.Jason Rees (talk) 21:16, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • The "central Pacific" is often considered a sub-set of the "eastern Pacific" (and wiki articles do that same), I tweaked the article slightly. Any better? YE Pacific Hurricane 21:21, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is some inconsistency in capitalisation: "east Pacific", "Central Pacific", "Eastern Pacific"
  • "..outside of the official.." "of" is redundant and should be removed.
  • "Only Hurricane Nina caused both property damage and fatalities while remaining just offshore of the Hawaiian Islands." The way this is currently phrased creates a very specific set of rules: Hurricane Nina is the only tropical cyclone to: cause property damage AND fatalities AND remain just offshore of the Hawaiian Islands. I'm guessing it should be rephrased to state that it was the only tropical cyclone to do both of those things, and it did them while remaining offshore..
  • In the Monthly stats section, I would personally list December before January, given that is the order it runs in each "off-season". Harrias talk 16:15, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Disagreed, since storms that form in December count for the previous year total. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:14, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Initial comments
  • " that existed in the" reads really odd to me, you mean they "formed" there, or they were "recorded there"? "existed" there seems to imply it just a case of someone popping by to discover them, like fossils.
    • In theory, whoever wrote them down discovered them, but it's easier to use "formed" I agree. So, changed. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "There have been 20 recorded tropical and subtropical cyclones that existed in the east Pacific basin outside the official Pacific hurricane season." is there some kind of start point for the definition of this "season"? We often here of "since records began", when would that be for this season?
    • No. And per the talk page, we as a project agreed to include storms prior to the reliable records. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dateline is Date Line.
  • As you use NOAA in the refs, it's worth putting NOAA in parentheses after you use the term.
  • The Background section is so minimal you could merge it with the lead, particularly as it appears to address one of my concerns above.
  • Storm column doesn't sort correctly.
Better?—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 00:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the Notes column so wide when most of it is blank in most cases?
    • Cause when it is not blank, there's often a bit of info. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:56, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I would avoid allowing the notes column to overwhelm the page. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, if they were narrower, It'd overwhelm the page more and make the table longer. YE Pacific Hurricane 21:21, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "December 22 – 26" &c, why the spaced en-dash?
Fixed some of them. Better?—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 02:17, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed.—CycloneIsaac–E-Mail 00:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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