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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/All Money Is Legal/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 15:46, 23 April 2018 [1].

All Money Is Legal edit

Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 17:26, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello everyone! This article is about the debut studio album by American rapper Amil. It was released on August 29, 2000, through Roc-A-Fella, Columbia, and Sony Music. All Money Is Legal is a hip hop album, whose lyrics focus on wealth and personal matters related to Amil's life. Reviews of the album were mixed; critics were divided over its production and Amil's verses. Commercially, it peaked at number 45 on the US Billboard 200 chart. Two singles — "I Got That" and "4 da Fam" — were released from the album and promoted through accompanying music videos. Following the album's release, Amil was removed from Roc-A-Fella.

This is yet another rather obscure album that I am putting through the FAC process. This is my fourth FAC on an album article, with the other three being Pru (album), Ho Ho Ho, and 3 of Hearts (album). I believe that the article meets all of the requirements in the FAC criteria. I look forward to everyone's comments and suggestions. Thank you in advance! Aoba47 (talk) 17:26, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Media review edit

  • File:All_money_is_legal.jpg: description should include the presumed copyright holder
  • The FUR for File:IGotThatAudioSample.ogg is nonsense. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:32, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Yashthepunisher edit

  • Remove oxford comma from the second sentence in the lead.
  • I used the Oxford comma throughout the article (I personally choose to use the Oxford comma, though I understand it boils down to a stylistic choice/preference), so I do not think that this would be beneficial. Aoba47 (talk) 21:24, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can provide alt text for the images.
  • The images already have ALT text. Aoba47 (talk) 21:24, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's it from me. Yashthepunisher (talk) 13:43, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Yashthepunisher: I have addressed your comments. Thank you for your input and I hope that you are having a wonderful start to your week. Aoba47 (talk) 21:24, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Vedant edit

  • The first paragraph in the ablum uses the word American a lot. I mean if everyone is an American you might not have to keep pointing that out IMO.
  • Understandable; I removed the parts. Aoba47 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The same for parts of the article's body as well.
  • "Following the album's release, Amil was removed from Roc-A-Fella." - Maybe you could mention the reason of her removal; for​ instance if it was it's poor performance then you could write: "Following the album's poor performance, Amil was removed from Roc-A-Fella."
  • The exact reasons were not provided. It was not tied to the performance per say, but Amil later said that she just did not feel prepared at the time for a music career. The information is in the body of the article. Since there is not a real definite reason given, I am not sure if it should be added to the lead, but I am open to your opinion.

Aoba47 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I read that bit later. I think there is no point in adding the reason then as that would unnecessarily complicate the lead.
  • "Dazed's Kathy Iandoli wrote that the single showed Amil had promise as a rapper,[21] while on the other hand, a writer from Vibe criticized the collaboration, including "I Got That" on its list of Matches Made in Error." - You could rephrase this as: "While XYZ wrote that..." to make it less wordy.
  • ""4 da Fam", the album's second single, was released on September 13, 2000,[11][26][27]" - CITEKILL, are all the refs really needed?
  • I have removed one source. One source is used to confirm that this was released as a single and the other is for the release date. Aoba47 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Other commentators had a more mixed to negative opinion of the album" - You could just say mixed or negative depending on the nature, "mixed to negative" isn't really an improvement of may sorts.
  • "The magazine also called "Smile 4 Me" a" - The writer, not the magazine.

That's it for now. Great work on the article Aoba47. I'll take another look once these commentate addressed. VedantTalk 04:59, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Numerounovedant: Thank you for the review! I believe that I have addressed everything. Let me know if anything else is needed to improve the article. Have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 05:13, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just a couple more comments:

  • You might want to add something from the "recording" and "composition" sections to the lead. It does not have anything (or very little) form the sections at the moment.
  • The following sentences in the lead (All Money Is Legal is a hip hop album, whose lyrics focus on wealth and personal matters related to Amil's life. Rapper Jay-Z and music executive Damon Dash served as the album's executive producers with Amil. Record producer Just Blaze also contributed to the record, later identifying his work as having made him a more respected producer within Roc-A-Fella.) are from those sections. I am not sure what else should be added, but I am open for suggestions. Aoba47 (talk) 20:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, things like "While Jay-Z had written Amil's verses for their past collaborations, she developed her own lyrics for a majority of the album" as who wrote the lyrics is as important, if not more than what they were; "was recorded between 1999 and 2000 at XYZ..."; "Several songs on the album contain features from Jay-Z"; "While she primarily raps on the album, Amil sings on some tracks"; ""I Got That", which features vocals by singer Beyoncé" are some significant details.
  • Makes sense to me! Thank you for the suggestions. I just had a brain fart about it. I restructured the lead to include more information. Aoba47 (talk) 20:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • While the images used are relevant, I believe that an image of the principal artist, Amil would be of greater value to the article.
  • I am not sure about the value of the image, as Amil is visible in the album artwork. Aoba47 (talk) 20:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll leave this to you.

The rest looks good. VedantTalk 19:41, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Numerounovedant: Thank you for the additional comments! I believe that I have addressed both of your new suggestions. Aoba47 (talk) 20:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am sure the last of my concerns would be addressed as we go on. It's relatively minor; I can support this for promotion. Good luck Aoba47. VedantTalk 20:33, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ssven2 edit

  • "The lyrics in "I Got That" encourage women to become more independent." — A little more elaboration, like quoting a line from the song that says what you have stated.
  • Unfortunately, the source does not provide any of the lyrics from the song. And I could not find a source that mentions its lyrics either. Aoba47 (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The word "praised" appears three times in the reception section. Try something like "appreciated" for instance, or any other synonym.
  • I have changed one instance of the instances in the section. Aoba47 (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's about it from me. Great work on this article, Aoba47.  — Ssven2 Looking at you, kid 08:41, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Ssven2: Thank you for the review. I believe that I have addressed your comments. Hope you are having a great week so far. Aoba47 (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support this nomination's promotion. The first one was merely a suggestion though.  — Ssven2 Looking at you, kid 15:29, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

  • I have modified the rationale. Aoba47 (talk) 21:03, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Good ALT text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:57, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ceranthor edit

  • " Record producer Just Blaze also contributed to the record, later identifying his work as having made him a more respected producer within Roc-A-Fella." - the second half of this sentence needs to be tweaked a bit; it's slightly awkward to read
  • " whose lyrics focus on wealth and personal matters related to Amil's life" - well, yeah, duh, you'll have to be more specific than "personal matters"
  • This is the most that I could find about the album's content. It was not a particularly popular album so the amount of critical commentary and review is limited. I figure that it is better to put what little information is present than nothing at all, as there are plenty of albums in which the performer does not touch on any aspect of their own personal life. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Even though Jay-Z had written Amil's verses for their past collaborations, she developed her own lyrics for a majority of the album" - cut the "even"; it's not encyclopedic; also I'd specify the number of songs and how many she wrote
  • Removed the "even", and according to the album liner notes, she co-wrote every song on the album. I have modified it to reflect this. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't think the link to music critics is super necessary
  • Removed. It was something that I had been encouraged to use in the past. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She cites hip hop group Run-DMC as one of her early inspirations.[2]" - this comes too abruptly and doesn't flow with the sentence before or after
  • Clarified that it was a group that she looked up to since childhood and her early career. I thought that it would make sense due to the previous sentence being about her start in rap. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Amil joined the group Major Coins in 1997," - any more detail about the group and what music it made?
  • I could not find much information about the group. Also, since the article is about the album, adding further information on them would seem to me to take away from the focus. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "rapper Jay-Z asked one of its members to sing vocals on his third studio album Vol. 2... Hard Knock Life (1998)." - which member?
  • Not specified in the source. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Prior to recording All Money Is Legal, she was featured on albums with artists Mariah Carey, Jermaine Dupri, and Funkmaster Flex," - when? the chronology here is confusing
  • According to the source, she appeared as a feature on various artists' albums prior to recording her own solo album (a fairly common occurrence, particularly for rappers, but one worth noting nonetheless). How do think that this information should be made clearer? Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "she developed her own lyrics for a majority of the album.[1][3] " - same as above comment; how many?
  • "Jay-Z praised Amil as having "a talent for song-making". " - citation?
  • The citation is in the next sentence, as this sentence and the next one are both support by a singular citation. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jay-Z praised Amil as having "a talent for song-making". When writing the material, she chose to avoid explicit references to sexuality.[1] Amil served as one of the album's executive producers, with Jay-Z and music executive Damon Dash.[3] " - these three sentences don't flow at all
  • I have tried to make the information flow better. Let me know what you think. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "attributed his experience with engineering the album as raising his profile within Roc-A-Fella.[5]" - this is better phrased than in the lead, but still needs a bit of tweaking to read better
  • "Throughout the album, she raps about the "lifestyles of the rap and famous"." - not sure a quotation is needed here, I'd just rephrase it in your own words
  • "On "Girlfriend", she worries about infidelity after taking another woman's boyfriend, and then raps about her shame for going "from Gucci sandals back to no-name brands" on "Anyday".[7]" - why just the selection of these two songs here?
  • I attempted to separate the more "personal" songs and the more "fame/money-focused" songs into two paragraphs to give this section more of a structure. I have moved the third paragraph up to the second paragraph to hopefully make it clearer, but let me know what you think. Also, not every song was covered by a critic given the limited amount of discussion on it. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a bit more work before it's ready. Weak oppose on the prose, for now. ceranthor 01:27, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Ceranthor: Thank you for the review. I believe that I have addressed everything. I would greatly appreciate your feedback on the revisions. Aoba47 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ceranthor: I apologize for pinging you again. I just wanted to clarify if you would revisit the comments in the future or if you would just like to leave up your comments and weak oppose as it currently stands. I understand either way as I completely respect your opinion either way. Either way, have a great weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 18:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, Aoba47, thanks for the reminder. I struck my oppose and will shoot to read through again today! ceranthor 18:37, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I appreciate your help with this, and I will try to improve my approach to prose in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 18:48, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Still don't quite think it's there. I'll keep copyediting until I feel comfortable with it. ceranthor 17:01, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. Sorry for the trouble. Aoba47 (talk) 17:17, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. Getting the prose to a 1a standard takes some work. ceranthor 02:37, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Few More Comments before I can Support
  • "When writing the material, she chose to avoid explicit references to sexuality; Jay-Z praised her for having "a talent for song-making".[1]" - this is my version; I changed it, but if you can make the Jay-Z part flow better, then it will be good to go
  • I moved the "explicit references to sexuality" part to the "Composition and sound" section as that deals more with the content of the songs/album than the background. Please let me know what you think about this. Aoba47 (talk) 17:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The lyrics in "I Got That" encourage women to become more independent.[7]" - this sentence comes abruptly. I think it disrupts the flow a bit - I'd either add a transition or move it within the paragraph
  • I have added a transition, but let me know if additional work is needed for this part. Aoba47 (talk) 17:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "explained she took a hiatus from music as she had not felt mentally prepared at the time of the album's release.[18][19]" - mentally prepared for ...W
  • Might help to add a sentence about mixed reviews at the very beginning of the reception section, since that's what you say in the lead

Good work. ceranthor 02:37, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Ceranthor: Thank you for the comments. I believe that I have addressed everything. Hope you are having a great day and/or night! Aoba47 (talk) 17:27, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support on the prose per 1a. ceranthor 18:34, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the help. I am sorry for the trouble. Aoba47 (talk) 18:48, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from JM edit

  • I generally wouldn't recommend including publishers for periodicals, but, providing it's consistent, no harm done. (Do you need to add one for International Business Times? Dazed?)
  • Removed publishers for periodicals. Aoba47 (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Potts, Diana. "Artist Biography by Diana Potts". AllMusic. Archived from the original on August 24, 2017." Is that really the best title?
  • It is the title of the section on the website, but I have shortened it to simply "Biography". Aoba47 (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes Hip Hop Wired a reliable source? It's a Wordpress site.
  • Here is the About page for the website, and it includes a deputy editor that suggest some sort of editorial oversight. However, if that is not enough, than I can remove it. Aoba47 (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Wilson, MacKenzie. "AllMusic Review by MacKenzie Wilson". AllMusic. Archived from the original on October 12, 2016." As before.
  • Again, it is the title from the website itself, but I have shortened it to "AllMusic Review". Aoba47 (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""Search results". Billboard. Eldridge Industries. Retrieved December 15, 2017." Again, an odd title; Billboard is certainly a good source, but citing search results seems a little weird.
  • The link leads the search database for the Billboard website/magazine, which includes all of the chart information. For some reason, I have trouble accessing Amil's chart information so this is the only way that I could support the chart performances through references if that makes sense. Aoba47 (talk) 18:42, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""4 Da Fam (Explicit Album Version) [Explicit]". Amazon. September 13, 2000. Archived from the original on March 14, 2017." I know some people hate citing Amazon and the like; do you have a better source?
  • I use the Amazon.com source to support the release date of the single "4 da Fam". Unfortunately, I cannot find a better source to support the information. I can remove the source if necessary and just say that the single was released sometime in 2000. Aoba47 (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's OK to include Google Books links as courtesy links, but you shouldn't cite them as websites (as you do with a number of Billboard links). Instead, you should cite the magazine; so, I'd want to see volume/issue numbers, date of publication, page range for the article, etc. Template:Cite journal will help. Here's a rough rendering of your "You've Come A Long Way" source, for example, one pared down (probably how I'd cite it) and one with more information (which might suit you a bit more):
    Kenon, Marci (August 19, 2000). "You've Come A Long Way, Baby". Billboard. 112 (34): 36, 46.
    Kenon, Marci (August 19, 2000). "You've Come A Long Way, Baby". Billboard. 112 (34). Eldridge Industries: 36, 46. Archived from the original on December 11, 2017 – via Google Books.
  • I believe that I have addressed everything. Aoba47 (talk) 20:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, looks fine. I've not yet checked for close paraphrasing, and I can't speak for comprehensiveness. Josh Milburn (talk) 11:38, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @J Milburn: Thank you for the review. I believe that I have addressed everything. Aoba47 (talk) 20:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A few more comments:

  • You don't need retrieval dates for Google Book links. You're citing the magazine; the weblink is just a courtesy.
  • Removed the access-dates from the magazine citations. Aoba47 (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • For your Allmusic sources, I'd consider specifying in the title that this is the biography (or whatever) for Amil. So, you could title the page "Amil: Biography" or whatever. You could do something similar with album pages. Not essential, but something to consider, perhaps.
  • Revised the titles of the AllMusic sources. Aoba47 (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not opposed to the use of the Amazon link for the reason you described. Others might be! Would something like Worldcat not have the release date? (Not a big deal.)
  • Unfortunately, WorldCat only cites the release dates as "2000". Aoba47 (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You probably shouldn't capitalise the i in inlay cover.

These are super-minor quibbles. In my view: the formatting of the citations is up to FA standard, and the sources are all appropriate for an article of this sort. Josh Milburn (talk) 08:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @J Milburn: Thank you for your comments! I believe that I have addressed them. I hope you are having a wonderful day/night so far! Aoba47 (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Status Update edit

  • @Ian Rose:@Sarastro1: I would greatly appreciate it if either one of you could provide an update on this nomination. It has received a fair amount of comments, as well as a source check and an image check. I hope you both are having a wonderful week. Aoba47 (talk) 00:34, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment: Before we promote, can we just check overuse of a few words such as "writer/wrote/writes" and "peak/peaked". Also, I'd like to know if J Milburn is happy with the sourcing now. Sarastro (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Ian Rose: & @Sarastro1:. I was wondering, could you archive this nomination? Aoba47 (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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