User talk:Klõps/Archive 1

Cup and league years

Since Estonia runs a spring to autumn season it would be much more logical to group 2014 Meistriliiga with 2014–15 Estonian Cup (and so on) as it is the best placed teams from these seasons that qualify to 2015–16 UEFA Champions League and 2015–16 UEFA Europa League. Otherwise it's a bit of a mess. (talk) 20:37, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

2014 Meistriliiga

Hello, On the 2014 Meistriliiga page apart from under the table it only mentions the annulled matches once. If that is part of the Estonian football league rules then people will need to know how many annulled matches or least withdrawals each respective team has. Thanks Skyblueshaun (talk) 19:50, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out to me. Appreciate it. Skyblueshaun (talk) 21:00, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Ways to improve Andrus Ansip's second cabinet

Hi, I'm Akifumii. Klõps, thanks for creating Andrus Ansip's second cabinet!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Great work. Please add some references as well as creating some articles for those red links.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. Akifumii^Talk 22:29, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Estonia

Actually that is not consensus, there has been RfC's on the subject and they have failed to gain consensus to just use Estonia. There has just been a small number of strong POV pushers who keep changing articles to Estonia, but there has never been a consensus on the wiki to use just Estonia. Wiki-wide consensus has always remained that we use the name of the at the time of birth. -DJSasso (talk) 19:44, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

And here we go again... This "small number of POV pushers" for You are all estonian wikipedians?Klõps (talk) 19:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

There was no consensus for your changes, Klops. You should revert & seek a consensus for what you want. GoodDay (talk) 14:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

This article is about The Republic of Estonia from 1918-1940. For The modern Republic of Estonia, see Estonia.

About this sentence: give any source that Republic of Estonia between 1918 and 1940 is separate entity from the Republic of Estonia from 1992 onwards. Until You haven't done this I'll remove this sentence and move the page back. Here are again some sources that prove the continuity of the Republic of Estonia.

• D. Zalimas, Legal and Political Issues on the Continuity of the Republic of Lithuania, 1999, 4 Lithuanian Foreign Policy Review 111–12.
• Mälksoo, Lauri (2003). Illegal Annexation and State Continuity: The Case of the Incorporation of the Baltic States by the USSR. M. Nijhoff Publishers. ISBN 90-411-2177-3.
• Van Elsuwege, Peter (2003). "State Continuity and its Consequences: The Case of the Baltic States". Leiden Journal of International Law (Cambridge Journals) 16: pp.377–388. doi:10.1017/S0922156503001195.
• Ziemele, Ineta (2005). State Continuity and Nationality: The Baltic States and Russia. Martinus Nijhoff Publishers. ISBN 90-04-14295-9.

Please do not restore Your edits before You have sources for Your claims! --Klõps (talk)

I haven't restored anything. As a member of WP:RETENTION, I just don't want to see you ending up blocked. GoodDay (talk) 20:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this a kind of streets are dark in here threat? This article used to be a redirect. Then it was turned into a crappy article with unsourced claims. You took part of the AfD making Your POV statments there (Keep due to the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic having existed from 1940 to 1991. GoodDay). You were given sources that prove that that the Republic of Estonia before the Soviet era is the same and continuous with the Republic of Estonia after the Soviet era. Find sources that say that there is no state continuation and then come back. --Klõps (talk) 20:25, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm speaking of WP:BRD, which you haven't been respecting. What you're arguing for isn't the issue. Your tendency to edit-war is the issue. If you want to continue the way you are, then that's your choice. GoodDay (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

You Yourself have also haven't shown any respect for BRD. And it is more than strange for You to act like judge if You have been part of this nasty business. The no consensus AfD isn't anything to push on here. The one who turned this redirect into article really loves infoboxes but isn't quite at home in history. His other similar edits have been nullified like AfD:Ireland (1937-1949). the article itself had two copy-paste paragraphs going against principal hierarchy of articles that these should be going from the general to the detailed. Then You and Your friend came along and started barricade edit war. --Klõps (talk) 21:44, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 81.235.159.105 (talk) 15:54, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

IP User

I saw you were involved in the dispute with the IP User changing Estonian birthplaces to Soviet birthplaces. I reported him and you can add to the discussion here. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 10:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 81.235.159.105 (talk) 15:33, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

re: edit warring

Hi, report me and you will get WP:BOOMERANG and be blocked yourself. Dont threaten me with blocks for edit warring, when you refuse to get facts. Qed237 (talk) 12:55, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Please read the discussions again with neutral eyes and stop accusing me. Thank you. Qed237 (talk) 13:05, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

July 2015

Your recent editing history at Template:2015 Meistriliiga table shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. TeaLover1996 (talk) 15:35, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Hello

What football do you edit ? just estonian football ? are you from there ? Can you also help me editing some seasons in Liga II ?--Alexiulian25 (talk) 22:23, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Help improve Estonian Cup old seasons. Thank you !--Alexiulian25 (talk) 22:41, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

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Kilingi-Nõmme

Hei, antud klubi on siiski Nõmme (Harjumaalt), Kilingi-Nõmme (Pärnumaalt) pole kõrgeimal tasemel mänginud. --LeeMarx (talk) 16:19, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Two peoples with similar names

Hello ! There is some problem with similar names for two football players from ghana. One - you are representing - is Michael Ofosu Appiah and another - Ofosu Appiah who is playing in Estonia (FC Infonet) right now. But You are mixed up both of them using biographic details of Ofosu Appiah to describe Michael Ofosu Appiah, such as date of birth, career and the fact he is playing in FC Infonet etc. Please, make sure the difference of those players, I mean - the fact that they are two different persons, and make correct changes in Michael Ofosu Appiah profile. If you have questions, please, don't hesitate to contact me. Inga Bermaka-Appiah — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.110.18.32 (talk) 10:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Then all internet is messed up. There's no info on 1983 Appiah and a lot of sites that mark the Infonet player as Michael. Anyway you should try to explain things and not to edit them out using Caps Lock. Klõps (talk) 18:19, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

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Ragnar Klavan's country of birth

Alright, I see your point. Although the idea of Estonia being an independent state in the 1980s is a bit anachronistic. 83.250.25.39 (talk) 23:18, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

About.com article on 34 New Countries: Accurate or not?

Hi man, thanks for the Estonian-based edits but I got a question I was just wondering. There's an article on About.com that has 34 new countries but this does not count.

http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/newcountries.htm

"Since 1990, 34 new countries have been created. The dissolution of the USSR and Yugoslavia in the early 1990s caused the creation of most of the newly independent states.

You probably know about many of these changes but a few of these new countries seemed to slip by almost unnoticed. This comprehensive listing will update you about the countries which have formed since 1990."

It is not accurate given the fact Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are not new countries at all even though they were illegally occupied by the Soviet Union in 1940 which were a violation of their sovereignty. The Baltics became independent countries after the Russian Empire collapsed in 1918. Any thoughts?

And the reunified Germany is actually a continuation of West Germany dated back to 1949. So it's 30 new states NOT 34. 108.162.176.163 (talk) 14:33, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

The Author claims to be a Geography Expert, but not history expert. Nation-building is a complicated process especially if there's many twists and turns of history. German question, Breakup of Yugoslavia, Baltic question etc all in one article would be really long one, so he just ignores everything and only lists border changes - shamelessly advertising it as list of new countries. Talking about maps – after the Welles Declaration all the official US maps until 1991, which had Baltic States on, actually included a statement of US nonrecognition of Soviet occupation.

To demonstrate the complexity of history and politics, during the cold war there were no final settlement on German question, so many limitations from the time of allied occupation were still in force and Germany did not have full sovereignty until Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany in 1991.--Klõps (talk) 20:36, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Estonia's existence within the Soviet Union

Since you claim the Soviet Union never had sovereignty over Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, you misunderstand the fact that in accordance with Article 76 of the 1977 Soviet Constitution: "A Union Republic is a sovereign Soviet socialist state that has united with other Soviet Republics in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Outside the spheres listed in Article 73 of the Constitution of the USSR, a Union Republic exercises independent authority on its territory. A Union Republic shall have its own Constitution conforming to the Constitution of the USSR with the specific features of the Republic being taken into account." although it was not almost internationally recognized. 108.162.176.163 (talk) 18:31, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

What stands in Soviet Constitution is just a claim by Soviet Union. Soviet constitution also declared freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion etc. --Klõps (talk) 20:36, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

And the second question I was also wondering to add Klops. Is the Estonian government-in-exile internationally recognized? We know Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania never had an observer status in the United Nations nor participated in international organizations from 1940-1991 but they were members of the League of Nations from 1921. Estonia also did not recognize North Korea at that time. Did any of the Baltic nations participated in any of the intergovernmental organizations during its occupation? 135.23.145.17 (talk) 20:06, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Government-in-exile had symbolic meaning. The most that they did was to send letters for Secretary General of UN and others that USSR can not represent Estonia or about right of self-determination etc. I think they even did not seek any recognition because by international laws the diplomatic missions were the carriers of the continuity. Baltic embassies in United States and in some other countries were recognised and continued their work during the occupation years with governments accepting new diplomats. Passports issued‎ by the Baltic diplomatic missions in US were recognised as valid travel documents by most countries. The main reason why Latvia and Lithuania did not have their exile governments was the fear that these may illegitimise their diplomatic missions. Estonian diplomats also kept distance from the gov-in-exile.

Estonian Diplomatic Service (1940–91)

With Soviet Union having so much power in UN there were no chance that UN could discuss anything concerning Baltic states.

There were no official participation in any international organizations. However in some unofficial events they did participate – Apollo 11 goodwill messages may be the most published of those: "The people of Estonia join those who hope and work for freedom and a better world." Ernst Jaakson, Consul General.

Estonia and France are the only two European Union members not having diplomatic relations with North-Korea, even today. Klõps (talk) 20:34, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Another thing, would this list on this edit here count? The Baltics, as mentioned were still independent nations under Soviet occupation. Please consult User talk:Freshacconci for this issue. And again, you're more than welcome to discuss this issue here my friend. 99.242.170.90 (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

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Lithuania

Dude, it would appear one of the users reverted this edit here since this edit is accurate. Lithuania, like the rest of the Baltic states, was occupied by the USSR and was not recognized.

Please discuss this matter to User talk:No longer a penguin. 135.23.144.167 (talk) 12:56, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I have discussed it with You before, You are the same editor 135.23.145.17, 108.162.176.163 etc. all TekSavvy Solutions, Ontario, Canada. I have already answered You several times. Klõps (talk) 13:32, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

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More Lithuania

Hi! I am not quite sure what is going on here. Yesterday you reverted an edit by IP_99.242.170.90 here. Today I reverted User:Wrestlingring back to exactly the same version as your revert here. Then you revert me here. So what happened between yesterday and today that made you disagree with your own edit of yesterday? Anyway, my "agenda" was to start a discussion by 1) going back to the version that has been rather stable for some weeks, and 2) using the edit summary "Please take this to Talk page". I see now that this discussion probably has to be somehow centralized, since there are other articles with the same "problem", but I do not quite understand why the discussion should not start with a version before the edit by IP_99.242.170.90 (who is the same editor as User:Wrestlingring and IP_135.23.144.167 and the other IPs that you already know). --T*U (talk) 16:41, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

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FCI Tallinn

Please explain me the reason of your "UNDO". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reylazy (talk • contribs) 23:29, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Messed up infobox order. Why the kit things first? Template:Infobox football club

The name isn't Football Club Infonet Tallinn as they removed Infonet from their name, their name is just FCI Tallinn.

Logo has no license (source is Own work!), soon someone notices and it will be deleted. Klõps (talk) 00:05, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

1. Kit was last in order, but ok. 2. FCI means Football Club Infonet, so the Full name is "Football Club Infonet Tallinn", aka "Infonet", "FCI", "FC Infonet" or "Tallinn" in different sources. The Official company name is "FC Infonet MTU". UEFA and EJL will use "FCI Tallinn". I know that, because it was my decision. :-) 3. The logo was made by me, and source is "Own work". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reylazy (talk • contribs) 01:36, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

2. Ok, but need source for it. On club's website or somewhere. It's logical that it means infonet, but still needs source that says FCI means Football Club Infonet (What a mess btw).

3. Could be made by you, but any Dick or Harry can say that with anonymous account. And wikipedia does not allow self publishing. I'll upload it with correct license. Klõps (talk) 20:50, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

2. http://fcinfonet.com/en/club/ (actually, I don't care what names will media or people use, but in wiki better use source, u r right.)

3. thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reylazy (talk • contribs) 05:12, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

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Lithuania

Hi Klops! Seems to me User:Sabbatino reverts edits on the Lithuanian articles including the one like this one: Saulius Skvernelis. As mentioned, Lithuania was never part of the USSR, but occupied. Can you fix this issue on the Latvian and Lithuanian articles? Supreme Dragon (talk) 20:40, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Blindly reverting

Hello. Please don't blindly revert edits as you did here. I did not remove any of the information you added (i.e. the referendum question), I simply moved it into the results section, rather than the incorrectly formed "Referendum question" section you had created. A more considered look at what had been changed rather than a knee jerk revert would have made you realise this. Thanks, Number 57 13:53, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Please read the article. The question was

Do you want the restoration of the national independence and sovereignty of the Republic of Estonia?

hence the Estonian restoration of independence referendum.

The restoration part is politically and historically important part that was followed by all the western states. They all restored diplomatic relations with Baltic states. All the international memberships and treaties that Baltic states were part of before the Soviet occupation resumed and were not signed again. If it would have been declaration of independence, then all the assets of Baltic states would have gone to Soviet Union (Russia). (11 tons of Estonian state gold, houses of embassies thet were held by the diplomatic corps in exile etc. Please if You do not know the history don't edit before learning the facts. Klõps (talk) 14:04, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

I am aware of the history of this area, so there is no need to lecture me about it. The title "independence referendum" does not exclude the possibility of it being about the restoration of independence rather than independence for the first time. "restoration of independence" is unnecessarily clunky, hence why it isn't included in the title of the articles about several of other referendums on restoring independence (e.g. Montenegro (x2), Lithuania). Number 57 14:16, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Question is not which title is prettier, but which is right. The Referendum is known in Estonia as Restoration of Independence referendum. That's how sources call it. See WP:COMMONNAME Please move it back. Klõps (talk) 14:18, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

And it's politically sensitive subject. Russia until this day says that Estonia Is a new state created in 1991 and declines to Return Estonian assets taken from Estonia to Russia in soviet time such as the presidential sign of office held in Kremlin. Klõps (talk) 14:25, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, if it's known in Estonia as the "restoration of independence referendum", then by all means ensure that et.wiki has the article at that title. However, this is English Wikipedia, so what it's known as in Estonia is not relevant. Secondly, I've also already explained to you that "independence referendum" is still right as it covers all forms of independence referendum, both new independence and restored independence. Number 57 14:32, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Ee wiki has the title restoration. The all event is known in world wide as Restoration of independence of Baltic states. Your only argument still is the cosmetic, that the title should be prettier and follow Your system? Any real arguments? Klõps (talk) 14:41, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

NB And I have already explained to You what is difference between just independence and the restoration of independence in this case. There are big differences. Klõps (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

You should seek Requested moves discussion. It was really ugly for you to edit the other page just to stop the moving before any discussion. Klõps (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, I'm not the one seeking to move the page, so the onus is on you to start a discussion. Secondly, the discussion should take place before a move. It shouldn't matter that I made that edit – you should not have been attempting to move it again after your move was reverted – this is the point at which you should start a discussion, not move war. Number 57 15:06, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

The page was moved, You reverted the move. So You prove your point. I only moved it once. Back from Your move. I saw immedetly that You had blocked any further moves with illegal edit. Klõps (talk) 15:19, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Just noticed that person with so bad communication skills is administrator. wow. Please count how many times I moved the page! (one) Klõps (talk) 15:22, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Why not then to rename all the referendum pages as Estonia referendum, 1991; United Kingdom referendum, 2016; Scotland referendum, 2014 etc. Really pretty and systematic titles! The question over which the referendum was held should be in the title. There is big difference in this case between independence and restoration of independence. Different Political concepts. There was movement to create a new republic (just independence). It was a political fight between different fractions. Klõps (talk) 15:33, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

finally, what klops trys to communicate is that Estonia in fact never belonged to USSR. Estonian SSR within USSR was a ghost entity, following him, and Estonia not became independent in 1990/91, cause it continued to be so since it was founded after WW-I. If one understands him right... --88.217.97.150 (talk) 09:00, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

What? Read this Occupation of the Baltic states. Nothing about ghosts. It was unrecognized occupation, same as Germany occupied France. people born in Paris 1940 aren't born Paris Germany, now France or what ever. Klõps (talk) 14:09, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit reversal

Would you, please, justify the reversal of my edit of ESSR's infobox? I can see on your user talk page that it is quite a sensitive issue for you, but the annexation of the Baltic states, whether legal or illegal, was recognised at least by the communist states at the time, so we cannot claim now that the Estonian SSR was an unrecognised Soviet republic (though I just noticed I misspelt 'recognized' in my edit but that doesn't matter). --Svawald (talk) 18:42, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Not sensitive for me but for the trolls here I just try to keep political neutrality in articles. Just researched the status thing for better wording. It's really bad there, might be better to remove the status field at all as it's discussed in the text. Klõps (talk) 18:55, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I guess that is the best option then. --Svawald (talk) 20:34, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

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Do not make politics !

Klops ! --88.217.127.62 (talk) 11:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Estonian Independence day is 24 February 1918. 20 August 1991 is Day of Restoration of Independence. Public holidays in Estonia. Estonian independence was interrupted by the Soviet occupation from 1940–1941, Nazi German occupation from 1941–1944 and then again Soviet occupation 1944–1991.Klõps (talk) 12:50, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

ok I know. And Estonian SSR was a phantasmagoria, like USSR. So Then, why we were afraid of a fiction ? --88.217.127.62 (talk) 14:12, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

???

Estonian SSR was unrecognized entity created by the occupying state. Occupation of the Baltic states. Paris 1940 wasn't Paris, Germany also. So stop trolling.Klõps (talk) 18:35, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Kontaveit and Kanepi

You are vandalizing, do not delete those tables. When you do, then make a new page of statistics, like another players have. Here are example:

Main article: Simona Halep career statistics

Rim555 (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Alize Cornet, Mirjana Lučić-Baroni, Anastasija Sevastova, Julia Görges, CoCo Vandeweghe, Magdaléna Rybáriková, Barbora Strýcová, Kiki Bertens for example also has that. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 16:42, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Discussion is on Rim555 page.Klõps (talk) 17:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Estonia at the 2018 Winter Olympics‎

I actually think it's more readable/clear when men are listed before women (not all mixed alfabetically). I think it has been kinda tradition. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 16:01, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Its better to have two separate tables one for women and one for men and on top of the table is header Men and Women. If You put men and women in same table, its strange to list men before women. Klõps (talk) 16:15, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Do you know WP:3RR? --Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:13, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes I do. But I also know WP:BOLD. The rules in WP:OLYMOSNAT clearly state that athletes should be listed lphabetically and not by gender. Klõps (talk) 18:16, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm copying: "Underneath these headings there should be a results table listing all athletes from the nation competing in that sport. In the case of a nation having more than six competitors in a given sport, this table may be further split into "Men" and "Women" results tables. In this case, use a semi-colon to create the table headings, instead of a level 3 headline code, in order to reduce TOC cluttering; i.e. use ;Men, not ===Men===" --Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:56, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm tired of this s... Why it is so important for you that men are listed before women? Klõps (talk) 18:25, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Alfabetically m(en) is before w(omen). :) Let's see the OLY discussion, I'd rather have the same style everywhere. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 19:01, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

NB: this reply is towards Klõps. Here's my take on this - if we assume we have less than 6 athletes in single sport then the separate tables for Men and Women become redundant. Now we have a single table, but here's the conflict - how to order the athletes? Both yours and Pelmeen10's arguments are right, but here's my oppinion - despite we no longer have the separate tables, we do have an invisible separation within the single table. In other words the order in single result tables is the following - first is the gender (men and women) later the athlete by alphabetic order.

Bottom line - I am more used to the traditional approach. While your approach is right, but lot of people, including myself, are used to the approach "first order by gender and then alphabetically".Ivaneurope (talk) 19:29, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for Your take. Still the invisible line is really bad concept. The lines (rules) should always be visible. The reader, looking the article, should understand them without knowing some invisible rules known only for insiders. The problem for me is:

1. If the table is really short – two athletes taking part of two events – then it's seems random if Ben Beta is in front of Anna Alpha.

2. But in other cases there are six athletes – each taking part in two to four events – then the table gets really long. As in Estonian article we have 1 female 5 male athletes and the one female athlete gets really lost in the bottom of the table.

The table length should be given in total rows maybe instead of 6 athlete rule. --Klõps (talk) 19:59, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I could offer a different approach what if we abolish the separate tables and have all athletes in a single table, but with two distinct headers for male and female athletes. For example:

Athlete	Event	Final
		Time	Rank
Men
John Roe	Event
Kyle Roe	Event
Women
Jane Doe	Event
Jessica Doe	Event

This is just a proposal @Klõps, you don't have to agree. But since there are differing oppinions among the community, how about we arrange a democratic voting for the result table scheme? By this way we can solve the issue and apply an universal standard for the tables (I'm updating some results tables). What you think?Ivaneurope (talk) 20:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Great Idea! Can You post it into Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics. I'll support this. --Klõps (talk) 20:34, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

The voting or the new table proposal?@Klõps Ivaneurope (talk) 20:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Ok, there's topic in WikiProject Olympics also about this... I think Post the proposal there and we can notify everybody taking part of the discussion (and pelmeen10) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Arranging men and women by gender. Or is it better to make new topic there? --Klõps (talk) 20:55, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

just copy your second post from here. --Klõps (talk) 20:58, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

I've already copied the proposed table format in the thread @Klõps Ivaneurope (talk) 21:04, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

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Aksana

Hey, if the edit to Aksana (wrestler) is reverted, I added a disclaimer to the summary. 108.162.177.213 (talk) 13:36, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

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2000 baltic cup

Baltoslavic (talk) 12:45, 3 June 2018 (UTC)http://www.rsssf.com/tablesb/baltic-overview.html

according to rsssf we havent baltic cup in 2000? true?

I haven't reached so far with fact checking. Articles that I found tell that Lithuanian 9 title was in 2005, so I assume that their 2000 win was unofficial. I also found Estonian Football Associations explanation for missing the 2005 tournament. Estonia was playing in the same World Cup qualification group and also had some important matches near the dates, but they accepted the result of the tournament without Estonia taking part. Anyhow the article needs much more work, also need to research what kind of teams were playing in the soviet time and where to put these results. -Klõps (talk) 13:11, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

---

You can see all Estonian footballers' pages needing update here. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 06:49, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

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Jüri Ratas

Hi Klõps. You made two edits here and here without any edit summaries to explain your rationale. I wonder would you care to discuss your edits at Talk:Jüri Ratas? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:27, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

As said before, Estonian BLP use just Estonia. Soviet rule was occupation not recognized by international community. See Occupation of the Baltic states. Especially this part: "The Baltic states, the United States and its courts of law, the European Parliament, the European Court of Human Rights and the United Nations Human Rights Council have all stated that these three countries were invaded, occupied and illegally incorporated into the Soviet Union under provisions of the 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, first by the Soviet Union, then by Nazi Germany from 1941 to 1944, and again by the Soviet Union from 1944 to 1991. This policy of non-recognition has given rise to the principle of legal continuity, which holds that de jure, or as a matter of law, the Baltic states had remained independent states under illegal occupation throughout the period from 1940 to 1991." There are miles of discussions about this [1], [2], [3]. etc. --Klõps (talk) 23:29, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

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Revision 923292552

I understood, but consider that the club is called Flora Tallinn in the coefficent club ranking and that we wrote so every time they did participate, so I think would be good to keep doing so. Just this, for me it's not that problem. --151.26.102.42 (talk) 22:48, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

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Corona stats in Estonia

It only shows where the tests were taken, so pretty useless https://www.err.ee/1064312/koroonastatistika-ei-naita-mitte-nakatunute-elukohta-vaid-labori-asukohta

Wow, Health Board and Government are both really messing things up. Clowns... this is our e-riik. Did You read about the paper forms that police wants people to fill in the border... it had cell for seat number, but they did not ask what flight/bus it was . Yeah, pretty much can remove the map, it's useless. Klõps (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I Hid the map. Klõps (talk) 23:05, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Paul Mägi

Two things. No. 1: I gave you an edit summary, you didn't. So why would you describe Talinn as the capital of Estonia at the time whan when Mägi was born? No. 2: Even if you are right you should NEVER revert back when reverted, but discuss on the article talk, per WP:BRD, to avoid edit warring. My suggestion for a compromise: just say Tallinn without any country (as I began, btw). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:57, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Already answered in Your talk page. All Baltic States articles use only Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania not the soviet states. Infobox person template description Place of birth: city, administrative region, sovereign state. Soviet Union never had sovereignty over Baltic states. Welles Declaration, State continuity of the Baltic states, Occupation of the Baltic states. Estonia became independent in 1918 and continued to exist even during the Soviet Occupation as there was no international recognition to Soviet annexation. Diplomatic missions still functioned in the west and were recognised, Ernst Jaakson was the longest serving ambassador in US assuming office in 1965. "The Baltic states, the United States and its courts of law, the European Parliament, the European Court of Human Rights and the United Nations Human Rights Council have all stated that these three countries were invaded, occupied and illegally incorporated into the Soviet Union under provisions of the 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, first by the Soviet Union, then by Nazi Germany from 1941 to 1944, and again by the Soviet Union from 1944 to 1991. This policy of non-recognition has given rise to the principle of legal continuity, which holds that de jure, or as a matter of law, the Baltic states had remained independent states under illegal occupation throughout the period from 1940 to 1991." Klõps (talk) 18:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Not an answer to my question, really ;) - You could have mentioned some link to this in an edit summary, answering my q1, and once not done, you could have explained on the article talk, answering q2. I - personally - don't need ANY of these, - I'd write "Tallinn" and let people look up politics if so inclined. Perhaps talk to those who add something to it ("historic name"), in this case GiantSnowman. Again, the article talk would be a good place to clarify for anybody watching. - I love the music by Arvo Pärt. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Estonia and Estonian SSR

Hey, Klõps and @Gerda Arendt: These reverting related to born in Estonia or Estonian SSR are probably unneeded (eg Special:Diff/953531238), unless there is consensus. Of course, I personally prefer just "Estonia" but many wants that "Estonian SSR". Both should be correct--Estopedist1 (talk) 11:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

How about the third option: simply Tallinn? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: no, per Template:Infobox_person#Parameters. But, of course, it is confusing when said that: birth place = Tallinn, Estonian SSR and death place = Tallinn, Estonia. Looks like different countries--Estopedist1 (talk) 05:46, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

In the guideline you mention, it says "omit unnecessary details". For a city that we don't even link, because it's a capital, why anything else? - Confusing: no. I'm German, the same place often had 5 different geographic and political areas it was in in history. Does any of those matter for a pianist? - My procedure is to place just the town, and rely on someone more knowledgable to add the detail if they think it's needed, and do corrections if I think they are needed, - Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany, West Germany, East Germany, all these are no countries. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:10, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

... or composer. Can someone please read the obituary of Vytautas Barkauskas (lt) and add to the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

A german ref is now available, so less might be hidden in the Lithuanian one. Checking would be nice, though. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:06, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

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Kersti Kaljulaid

May I ask why you reverted my edit on the article Kersti Kaljulaid? –Sullay (Let's talk about it) 16:15, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Because all WP:BLP of Baltic states use just Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. Per Template:Infobox person Place of birth: city, administrative region, sovereign state. Soviet union never had sovereignty over Baltic states. See Occupation of the Baltic states. People born in France 1940–1944 are not listed as born in Paris, German Reich – Christian Boltanski, Catherine Deneuve, Édith Lejet, Claudine Auger etc. --Klõps (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Your argument runs counter to the instructions in Template:Infobox_person which says Use the name of the birthplace at the time of birth. At the time of her birth there was no independent country called Estonia. Banana Republic (talk) 22:48, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

See for example Gandhi. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:09, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Did You read the comment above at all? The Infobox person template description says clearly Place of birth: city, administrative region, sovereign state. Soviet Union never had sovereignty over Baltic states. Make Yourself familiar with the issue Welles Declaration, State continuity of the Baltic states, Occupation of the Baltic states. Using only Estonia Latvia or Lithuania has been consensus for years. And Gandhi is different case he was born before India gained independence. Estonia became independent in 1918 and continued to exist even during the Soviet Occupation as there was no international recognition to Soviet annexation. Diplomatic missions still functioned in the name of their former governments. Estonia had government. "The Baltic states, the United States and its courts of law, the European Parliament, the European Court of Human Rights and the United Nations Human Rights Council have all stated that these three countries were invaded, occupied and illegally incorporated into the Soviet Union under provisions of the 1939 Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, first by the Soviet Union, then by Nazi Germany from 1941 to 1944, and again by the Soviet Union from 1944 to 1991. This policy of non-recognition has given rise to the principle of legal continuity, which holds that de jure, or as a matter of law, the Baltic states had remained independent states under illegal occupation throughout the period from 1940 to 1991." Klõps (talk) 14:25, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Klops is a dilletant. Nobody claimed that "Paris from 1940 to 1944" belonged to "German Reich". Don't fight against "claims", nobody claimed, you. --213.172.123.242 (talk) 06:17, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

As Paris was De Facto German Reich from 1940 to 1944 so was Estonia de facto in Soviet Union. De jure sovereignty never went to Soviet Union as it was never recognised by the international community. Instead the Diplomatic missions kept working and were recognised as legitimate diplomatic missions. World isnät black and white. The Infobox person template description says clearly Place of birth: city, administrative region, sovereign state. Soviet Union never had sovereignty over Baltic states. Make Yourself familiar with the issue Welles Declaration, State continuity of the Baltic states, Occupation of the Baltic states.Klõps (talk) 07:08, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

nonsense statement. You obviously have no idea about what you're talkin' about. You'll be the first to claim that Paris was part of "Grossdeutsches Reich", or what. --213.172.123.242 (talk) 07:18, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

What is your problem? Just France is used instead of Paris, Militärverwaltung in Belgien und Nordfrankreich. France was France, Estonia was Estonia. Baltic states weren't recognised as part of Soviet Union, it stayed occupation for the whole duration. First Soviet occupation 1940-41, German occupation 1941-44, Second Soviet occupation 1944-1991.Klõps (talk) 07:40, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

it is pointless. Poland or several other countries don't exist for a certain period of time. The stronger beats the weaker, otherwise an "independence" must not fought for (legal titles, that you pretend, are no substitute for a "de facto" status. Baltics fought for their "de facto" independence, not a "legal status". Or take China. PRC doesn't accept Taiwan as state. But nevertheless people are listed as "born in Taiwan", here. So what's your point in the end: Narrow Baltic fanatism. --213.172.123.242 (talk) 08:39, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

These are different cases. When talking about Baltic states under Soviet, German and then again Soviet occupation, from 1940 to 1991 (see State continuity of the Baltic states) the states continued to exist under these occupations, recognised by the international community and reflected in their state practice with the existence of corresponding recognised diplomatic missions. The application of the Welles Declaration etc. Show me where it's written in the infobox person or elsewhere in the WP:GUIDELINEs that only de facto goes? Calm down your soviet fanboy fanaticism.Klõps (talk) 09:10, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

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I wont to ask ya a question

Was Governorate of Estonia also illegally incorporated into the Rrussian Empire, in your honest opinion ? How was the "legal procedure" then in, say, 17th or 18th century & why was it, eventually, acceptable ? --213.172.123.242 (talk) 21:16, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Unrelated to the 20th century occupations of Baltic states. Read State continuity of the Baltic states, Welles Declaration, Baltic Legations (1940–1991) to understand the legal principles behind the illegality of Soviet occupation in the Baltic states. Klõps (talk) 21:51, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Just keep Your political POV out of biographies. There's no need for these political additions for the name of the place. This person has nothing to to with Soviet Union, He was 11 when it ended. It's not Republic of Estonia nor Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic, just Estonia unlinked as per Infobox person Countries should generally not be linked and Omit unnecessary or redundant details.Klõps (talk) 22:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)