User talk:John from Idegon/Archive 78

Our old friend

I came across our old friend today (see "Just a heads up..."). Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:26, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

your Canadian grammar ping

Left a sourced quoted from a Canadian Oxford Dictionary grammar guide to prove your point. Interestingly, this point was not mentioned in the the capitalization section in the Canadian Oxford Dictionary but was added to the capitalization section in the slightly newer grammar guide. It seems the Oxford people found a need for the clarification. I didn't bother checking other Canadian refs. . Meters (talk) 05:19, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

I have several friends who would be able to provide additional sources in the unlikely case this is necessary (Canadian editors, professional writers, and PhDs in English). Meters (talk) 05:23, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Threw in a Nelson Gage Canadian Dictionary quote too since I happened to have it to hand. Meters (talk) 05:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, M. John from Idegon (talk) 05:39, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Lanier Middle School

Many schools have been named after Mr Lanier for his contributions to literature. The article gives the impression that the school was named after Mr Lanier because he was in the Confederate Army which is untrue. The Houghton Mifflin Dictionary of Biography, 2003 ed., gives a good description of Mr Lanier who is described as a US poet. The section "Renaming" gives an adequate discussion of the reasons for the change of name. Butterball123 (talk) 16:26, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Ok? Can you come up with a reliable source that states the school was named after him due to his wonderful contributions to the world of literature? Otherwise, he is primarily known for being a Confederate general, and during the period of time it was named, naming public edifaces in the South for Confederate figures was commonplace. Meanwhile, discussion of content disputes belongs on the article talk page. Do not change the content regarding this without consensus. John from Idegon (talk) 17:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

John, Lanier's status as a confederate soldier is sort of a footnote. As he was only a private, his fame came from other things. While there are many revisionists attempting to censor the negative past, I don't think this is really one of them. While his military service should not be ignored, should his more important attributes get a mention? Thanks! Jacona (talk) 10:59, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Contested deletion

Hi John from Idegon,

I am writing to let you know I have contested the speedy deletion tag you placed on Jeremy Buendia and have explained my reasoning on the talk page.

Best regards,

Kadane (talk) 05:39, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the WP:DRN regarding having reached an impasse in the talk section of the Presentation High School page. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Presentation High School. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!24.155.229.89 (talk) 02:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

John Marshall High School (Minnesota)

I followed an editor to this article and reverted part of an edit, then saw you had previous deleted more of the exact same edit. You may want to revert more. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:50, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Kalamazoo shooting

Hi, I got a message that my addition waa removed for failure to cite a credible source. I cited to the opinion of the Michigan Appellate Court in the case. The source of the actial law of the case. How on earth is that NOT reliable source material??

Thanks Govtatty (talk) 10:42, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Hi Govtatty. Court records are themselves generally considered to be primary sources which means they need to used with care, particulary in articles about living persons. It would be best to wait until this is picked up by secondary sources, perhaps a newspaper article about the court's ruling. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:17, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Govtatty, the templated message I left you, which is a boilerplate message left thousand's of times a day on Wikipedia, said nothing whatsoever about the source being "credible". Perhaps you don't realize that blue words are links? You used a source that violated our guideline WP:RS, and I explained why in the portion in italics at the end. Marchjuly expanded further above. You must cite a reliable secondary source for the information. Once you've cited a secondary source (in this case, a newspaper story, perhaps from MLive), you can add details from the primary source. Remember, this is an encyclopedia. Every bit of information you add must be paraphrased from a published source. For me, what works best is to decide that I need to add something to an article, then search Google news for it, make note of the best sources, paraphrase them and cite them, then dig deeper for other secondary sources and possibly primary sources, and add details from them. When you are actually writing your addition, forget what you know and write about only what the sources say. Thanks for staying on top of this. I can't write about it, as it's too close to me. My daughter's half sister cancelled a ride with him during his shooting spree. John from Idegon (talk) 15:23, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

El Camino Real Charter High School

Is there such a thing as a national soccer title? I have not been able the verify the claimed national itle, or even that there is such a thing. The best I have found so far is that they won the 2013 SOCAL Div I Girls' regionals http://www.cifstate.org/sports/soccer/past_results_records/2013_CIF_SoCal_Soccer_Brackets.pdf . Meters (talk) 04:09, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

At the collegiate level there is, but I pretty sure there isn't for high schools. Some teams are sort of "crowned" national champions by newspapers or other organizations and there are national rankings, but I don't believe there are national team competitions where one school actually wins a tournament to become national champion. State titles seem to be as far as it goes. There might be AAU national tournaments in which high school teams might participate in some way, but not sure. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:31, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

AFAIK, there are no national championships in any high school sports. Many schools claim national championships off of polls, like USA Today, and many much more obscure than that. I always remove it. John from Idegon (talk) 04:40, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

OK. Thanks Meters (talk) 00:04, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

9250 Cordell Drive

Hello. I am the user "The Brave Celery". I created the article on 9250 Cordell Drive.

I respectfully tell you that the cites I put in were not passing mentions of the house. The fact that the celebrities lived there is something, yes, but the articles were about the house itself. Some headlines were along the lines of "Moby sells house" or "house of comedian Paul Lynde sells for"... The journalists who wrote those must have found the house important enough to list on its own merits as the main focus of an article with passing mentions to its celebrity occupants.

To compare, the rapper Snoop Dogg had a house in Baton Rouge, Louisiana for a few years but sold it off. There are no articles saying "Snoop Dogg sells house in Baton Rouge" (although it was not his main residence) but I'm sure you get my point.

Feel free to raise the matter again but please start an Articles for deletion (AfD) discussion next time.

Sincere best wishes. The brave celery (talk) 23:52, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

already replied on your talk. Stalkers, feel free to chime in. John from Idegon (talk) 23:54, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Another high school sports Q

Now I'm cleaning up and sourcing the athletics section on Saint Ignatius High School (Cleveland).. There is a claim of multiple titles in crew (including some national titles). From what I have found so far I suspect that these claims are actually for individual race titles. There are multiple classes (i.e. Varsity, Junior, Novice), weight categories, and crew sizes (i.e., 2, 4 and 8-person). Am I correct in thinking that single race results should be treated like track and field race results, or swim meet results, or wrestling weight category results and considered individual results? Meters (talk) 04:48, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I would think. Take a look at some of the noted East coast private schools, like Phillip Exitor (I think I spelled that right). Perhaps you can find some sources there. Most of them do crew. I think I added St. Ignatius to my list because Tom Griswold went there. The Bob and Tom Show has been my morning companion since the early 80s. John from Idegon (talk) 05:57, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I know there are a lot of structural similarities between crew competition and yachting, and in intercollegiate yachting, there are team championships awarded for best composite score in all the classes. It's scored ¾ point for first, 2 for second, 3 for third etc and low score wins. John from Idegon (talk) 06:04, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I've got got sources for the Midwest Scholastic Rowing Association championship regatta results, but I have only found team results of the last few years. It's entirely possible that there are team results buried in the older data, but there are about 1000 pages of results to wade through. I strongly suspect that this school's claims are based on winning single races. By that standard many (or even most?) of the school at the regattas could claim to be champions. I've had enough for tonight. Meters (talk) 06:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Copyright Help

Thanks John for the very helpful reply on copyrighting which I am trying to learn and understand. Now I have done some "homework" by looking at other logos and images and I see that for corporate logos they use the {{PD-textlogo}} and the {{trademark}} lisenses. I now understand that schools aren't part of state government however the school districts and public universities are quasi-governmental to the state. I actually found this seal of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High which seemed like they sourced it from actual school district and not from the school's website. They also lisensesed the seal with a Florida PD because the school district apparently authored it. Wouldn't that go the same with File:Miramar High School crest.jpg? I'm very confused now... so I get why this is complicated! Please help. Yanjipy (talk) 15:49, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Verde Valley School

All but 2 of the notable alumni are unsourced. I was a student there. What's your connection?Robinrobin (talk) 16:05, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Robinrobin, personal knowledge is irrelevant in an encyclopedia, so both your and my connection to the school is irrelevant. All edits must be based on reliable published sources. New additions on Wikipedia get checked, but that hasn't always been the case. Perhaps the others have sources in their bios for their attendance, I am not sure. The one I looked at, Lockhart, did. Hope that answers your question. John from Idegon (talk) 20:57, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Also please note that I moved your message. Counterintuitive as it might seem, new messages go at the bottom. John from Idegon (talk) 20:58, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you.Robinrobin (talk) 02:07, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Blackstone Academy Charter School

Usually I would revert the large amount of unsourced information just added to Blackstone Academy Charter School. I don't wish to bother you if you are too busy to look at this but for no special reason, I thought I would mention this to you since you are the expert on school articles. I thought I would ask you to look at it if you have time. If you are offline or busy, of course, it might have move along in the interim. Thanks. Donner60 (talk) 03:11, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)I don't think John is on right now, but I took a quick look. A nice mess of unsourced material, promotion, and outright copyvio. Meters (talk) 03:20, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Please can you check this

Hi John, hope all is well. I'm still going through the unsupported parameters and came across this school which was created today. It doesn't look like it had gone through AFC and there's also a draft. The user who had created the article is fairly new having joined in February 2018 with one edit, and making further edits in July and August. Notability is an issue with the school and name may be incorrect or misspelled. If you could take a look would really appreciate it, maybe AFD? Steven (Editor) (talk) 18:52, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Steven (Editor). Is the draft any better? Link please. I actually have a computer for a few days, so hopefully I can be a bit more responsive. John from Idegon (talk) 19:21, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi John, sorry I was meant to say maybe PROD, not AFD haha. Nope, having looked at the history of both pages, the draft was created on 1 August 2018 in the mainspace and was then moved to draft without redirect by another user on the same day with edit description as "no sources and far from finished". On 9 August, the user who created the page removed the intro text which is the same (words swapped around) as the one in the mainspace, which was recreated by the same user on 12 August. Ah I see, no rush, grateful :) Steven (Editor) (talk) 19:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Prod'd which is all I can do. Kudpung may wish to delete it when it gets to be a reasonable time in Thailand, or fix it. John from Idegon (talk) 21:27, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Steven (Editor) (talk) 21:48, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

The best thing to do with this school is to blank it and redirect it to its locality. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:38, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Renaissance High School (Idaho)

Hello John from Idegon, I noticed that you removed my edits because they aren't cited by secondary sources. I think this poses a double standard for the article compared to other articles about other public schools in Idaho. If you examine the wikipedia articles for Meridian Technical Charter High School and Meridian High School (Idaho), they include information that isn't cited by any secondary sources at all. I think that if the Renaissance High School article isn't allowed to contain information verified by only primary sources, then those two articles and many others should not be allowed to do the same.

We are talking about this article. There is no double standard, the standard is the same for all articles. Just some have not been caught. Encyclopedias are by nature tertiary. That means we do not write about the school, we write about what has been written about the school. The article is not for the school, it is about the school. The content is supposed to be content that has been paraphrased from secondary sources that is useful and informative to the world, not the residents of the West Ada school district. I do not understand why new editors always pose the "well, XX article is like that" argument. What about finding a pile of dog poop in your living room suggests that you should go out in the yard and find another one to keep it company? You clean it up and that is what you should do here. If you do not know how, ask, but please don't make lame arguments. John from Idegon (talk) 02:47, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Understood, it was foolish to edit an encyclopedia without first learning the rules of an encyclopedia. You can delete this talk section if you want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Voluntari Tau (talk • contribs)

File:Renaissance High School (Idaho) logo.png

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CharlesNelson Architect page

I have not attempted to write an autobiography. A friend thought I should have a page, wanted to write something, but thought that she should use my account name. I have asked her to remove the post in entirety, to create her own account, and to carefully read and follow all of the advice available before posting anything else. Charles Nelson. 120.151.68.87 (talk) 06:50, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Soroti Secondary School

Hi John. Any chance that this might meet WP:NSCHOOL? Really new editor almost certainly means well, but also almost certainly has no real awareness of WP:N. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:01, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

More than a chance, Marchjuly. I voted keep at the AfD. Now I wish I hadn't, because it's going to be a snow and now I cannot close it. John from Idegon (talk) 20:38, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look at it. — Marchjuly (talk) 21:32, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

While I have you on the phone, I’m wondering what’s you’re take on WT:MUSICIAN#Angelique Francis. — Marchjuly (talk) 21:38, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm with Walter. PROD it. John from Idegon (talk) 21:42, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look. I've prodded it, but my guess it will end up at AfD since I also prodded another related article by the same editor which they subsequently de-prodded. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:53, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Infowars Dispute at DRN

In general, I would prefer that tendentious posts intended to right great wrongs (or commit new great wrongs as libel in the process) be closed rather than deleted. However, since the filing editor is a banned user, deletion is fine. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:29, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

noted. John from Idegon (talk) 21:30, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

File:Maconaquah High School logo.png

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Invalid Sunnyvale reversion of my edits

Excuse me? Really?

A ten-second Wikipedia search points out literally hundreds of SmartAsset rankings on city pages, which completely supported the original poster's edits, so I reverted YOUR edits. It was *you* that engaged in the edit war by persisting past the three revision rule. YOU should have left the edit in place and taken it to talk, which you failed to do. As for the City logo, an earlier editor that was not me properly updated the logo to the new logo. Then some guy comes along and adds back in the old logo without having any reference for doing so (but keeping the new logo, even!). I need to provide a reference before I can remove an invalid and unsourced edit? I don't think so, but just to satisfy you, how's this? https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/24/sunnyvales-new-96000-logo-pot-leaf-or-pac-man/

FYI, I DID in fact insert a comment on that guy's talk page saying "hey, that logo is out of date, you should revert your edits". He simply deleted my comment from his talk page without taking any action or saying a word, last week. So I reverted his edits. Had you bothered to look at the guy's talk page history, you would have seen that.

I included clear, good-faith reasons for both of those changes, and both of my edits were in simple agreement with and defense of earlier edits performed by other people. Calling them "unconstructive" or "disruptive" is, in itself, unconstructive and disruptive. So practice what you preach and take it to Talk, rather than just reverting my edits past the 3-reversion rule. JGriffithSV (talk) 20:05, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Nipton / Keystone

Kind of a dumb question, but if the article for Nipton, CA can't have the Ivanpah Solar Facility in it because it's not in Nipton, then why does the Keystone, South Dakota article have a photo of Mount Rushmore if it's located two miles outside of the town? -- Redditaddict69 06:10, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Followup: Same with Sundance, Wyoming – A photo of Devils Tower National Monument is on that page though the monument isn't in Sundance, only near. Redditaddict69 08:24, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Burton, Michigan

Agree on both points about quality and could-be-anywhereness, but I felt that an article with those images was more useful than an unillustrated one, and those were the best photos I was able to find. Although MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE concurs that not every article needs images, I'd say that places and people are the two types of Wikipedia article where a blurry or could-be-anywhere photo is significantly better than nothing. It's much harder to get a sense of a place from text alone. --Lord Belbury (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand the purpose of your message here. Clearly it was your opinion that they improved the article, just as clearly, I disagree. Leaving a note here is just a waste of both our time. Of course if you dispute my removal, you're welcome to start a discussion on the article talk page, but since by your own admission here my actions were backed by PAG and your's were not, that would likely be fruitless. I'd suggest posting an image request on the article talk page. John from Idegon (talk) 05:44, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Please can you look at this 2

Hi John, please could you take a look at this school, there are a few things that should be removed and not sure about the music section part which is unsourced. Thank you! :) Steven (Editor) (talk) 20:11, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

•  Done John from Idegon (talk) 05:39, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Steven (Editor) (talk) 19:03, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 19

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Adolfo Camarillo High School, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Punter (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:29, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Burley High School

Hi John,

Just a note to let you know that I'm undoing your edits on the Burley High School page. My trackpad died last night while I was workign on this and other pages, so that's why it contained so little information. I'm going to improve the page today and I think you'll be pleased with the page, and will see that it is indeed a very notable historical entity. Thanks very much! Leofstan (talk) 15:32, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that article is now ok to be in mainspace, Leofstan. Are you aware that you can develop articles in a space outside the encyclopedia? Unreferenced articles should never be saved to mainspace. If you start your articles at "Draft: Whatever title", and develop it there, then move it to "Whatever title" when it is sufficiently sourced, problems like this can be avoided. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 16:40, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. I'll try that out in future. I haven't used that function before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leofstan (talk • contribs) 18:48, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Redirect maybe?

Hi John, thanks for cleaning up the other article. Please could you take a look at this middle school, I removed unsupported parameters a while ago but an IP has added some today. I'm thinking maybe redirect as it's a middle school, but unsure and the intro text says "It is notable as being the place where actor Matt Dillon was discovered, being cast as the character Richie in the film Over the Edge (film)." I don't know, better if you take a look, please let me know, thank you Steven (Editor) (talk) 21:16, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

That shouldn't matter per WP:INHERIT. I'd just redirect it to the district. Please make sure to tag it with {{r from school}}. Thanks, Steven. Your bonus check is in the mail. John from Idegon (talk) 21:37, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Done, thank you Steven (Editor) (talk) 21:53, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Cowlitz Black Bears

Good afternoon, I have added text to the talk page of the Cowlitz Black Bears summer collegiate baseball team. Please let us know why the article isn't notable. I don't believe this article should be speedily deleted. Deletion of this article would lead to the deletion of over 100 articles of summer collegiate baseball organization articles. Will await your response. Thanks. -- Ks03 (talk) 21:26, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

The speedy deletion template was removed 10 days ago? John from Idegon (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Hadn't logged in for a few days and it was still an active message. Sorry for the mistake. Ks03 (talk) 21:35, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Hi Ks03. There are tons of articles on Wikipedia which probably shouldn't have been added in the first place, but just haven't been removed yet; so, the fact that other similar articles exist doesn't automatically mean that this one should also exist. What will ultimately determine whether this article is not deleted will be whether it can be established that the team itself is sufficiently Wikipedia notable enough for a stand-alone article to be written about it. If the over the 100 other articles you referred to above have Wikipedia notability issues, then perhaps they should be discussed as to whether they should be deleted.

I also noticed that you wrote Please let us know... in your original post. Was this a typo? If not, then maybe you could clarify who is the "us". -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:35, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Marchjuly, good afternoon. "Us" would refer to anyone who had created an article in list of articles that I was referencing. It wouldn't be one person, or even a handful, so it would be to anyone who had created an article so they could ensure they have the right information to make it "notable." Thanks. Ks03 (talk) 21:35, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Is the heading "Segregation and Massive Resistance" non-neutral

Hi John. I'm replying to a question you posed regarding the Wikipedia page for Burley High School (Charlottesville, Virginia). You said:

"I question the neutrality of the last section title. can't this just be added to history?"

The section title you are referring to is "Segregation and Massive Resistance."

First, to address the question of adding that content to "history." There is no "history" section on the page since this is a page about a school that no longer exists, so the entire page is an historical entry.

To address neutrality: The word "segregation" is neutral because it refers to the structure of the education system in Charlottesville when Burley High School was created to serve only Black students, and it wsa the historical situation that led to Massive Resistance. Segregation is itself a non-neutral state of being, one could argue, but the word and the historical fact of it is indeed neutral. It happened, and it was fundamental to the history of the Burley school.

The term "Massive Resistance" is neutral because it refers to an historical event that dominated the history of K-12 education in Charlottesville, Virginia in the 1950s. Massive Resistance to integration was prompted in great part by the lawsuit of Burley High School parents who wanted their children to transfer out of that school to another school.

Resistance to the segregation of Burley students led directly to resistance to the integration of Burley students, which led to Massive Resistance. This is a fundamental aspect of Burley's history, and the resulting integration of the schools eventually led Burley to close permanently as a high school. Therefore, the extended incident of "Segregation and Massive Resistance" is a single, unified narrative that is fundamental to Burley's history, and is best understood in a specific section on the page.

Burley's widespread notability and the reason it belongs in Wikipedia rests primarily in the Segregation and Massive Resistance story, which impacted the lives of everyone in Charlottesville at the time---black and white. Nothing in the title or in the content of the article contains an opinion. The history itself is not neutral. The fact of it happening must be included in Wikipedia and must be included using the accurate historical terms for the events in question. Leofstan (talk) 15:06, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for all the effort you've put intoreviewing the pages I've been creating over the last few days.

Leofstan (talk) 16:21, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Mike Bishop article

The section on the Gordie Howe International bridge was originally written by me. We had a discussion in December regarding the use of edit summaries to ensure that you understood why I had made the change.

"Edit summaries are a good thing. Please use them. On some level I agree with you, the sources seem rather "opinionated". However, I do find it bothersome that you feel since you originally added the content, that gives you the right to remove it. It doesn't. It's been in the article a while and no one else objected to it, so I'd appreciate it if you'd post a short bit on the talk page, describing your doubt about the sourcing. I won't object and if no one else does, feel free to remove it after a week or so."

I understand you said that it has been there for a while and no one else has objected to it. If sources are biased or untrustworthy it shouldn't matter that the material has been present for a while. It wasn't a good edit by me on reflection. It shouldn't be a part of the page. It isn't a good reflection on many years worth of service by the Congressman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spiteria (talk • contribs) 00:47, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

1) Sign your posts. 2) Content disputes belong on the article talk page. You've made no policy based arguments and you do not have control of your edits after you've made them. John from Idegon (talk) 02:21, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

St._Anthony_High_School_(California)

Hi, John from Idegon:

I write to ask you to reconsider your removal of my edits on the above page.

In editing the entry "US Marine Corps Officer, recipient of the Navy Cross, professional football player" next to the alumnus Ernie Cheatham to read instead "professional football player" you gave the reasoning "text details of alumni's life belong at the Wikilinks. All that goes here is the wikilinks and a short bit on primary notability. Being in the service does not make a man notable. At that time, being in the service was the norm."

I understand that these entries are to be brief. Leaving aside your comment "At that time, being in the service was the norm", I want you to understand why I included each phrase:

"professional football player": Included because his professional football record most easily established his connection to St. Anthony High School. "recipient of the Navy Cross": Included because this is clearly the most notable accomplishment of the man's public career. "US Marine Corps Officer": Included because some readers might infer from the title "Navy Cross" that he was a service member of the US Navy.

I believe that we're discussing WP:N, or WP:BIO. If so, I would suggest that if you believe we need to reduce the size of this entry, his service in the military is much more significant than his pro football career -- only 491 US Marines are known to have earned the Navy Cross in Vietnam. However, if you delete his pro football reference, then another link will be needed to connect him to St. Anthony High School.

Thank you. Bob Cummings (talk) 21:50, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, BobCummings. It isn't a matter of my opinion or yours, and it isn't a matter of "significance" (on which I agree with you. Winning the NC is much, much more significant than playing in the NFL). The guidelines for notable alumni sections (WP:ALUMNI) say that all we include is the wikilinked name and his primary notability. Notability is a blanket term we use to describe the requirements for an article to be included in Wikipedia. There is the General notability guideline and numerous Single notability guidelines. The basis of notability is "has there been enough written about this subject to create an adequate article?" (In case you were not aware, every single thing in a Wikipedia article must be paraphrased from a reliable and prefferably secondary, source.) What the SNGs do is allow us to make an assumption of existence of adequate sources based on certain accomplishments. NGRIDIRON allows us to assume anyone who has played in the NFL is notable. However, NSOLDIER only allows that assumption for general officers and winners of a country's top honor (the Medal of Honor). In this case, it's born out. There is far far more written about his football career than his military career, making football his primary notability.

Sorry for the length of the previous paragraph (brevity is highly valued here), but you're obviously pretty inexperienced at Wikipedia and I thought a detailed explanation of notability was in order. Now the reason ALUMNI instructs us to limit the content in the Notables section is pretty simple. It's a long standing consensus that school articles are about the institution, not the people who attended (or worked) there. And honestly, do you know any more about the school by knowing this guy earned the NC? Also, is it fair that his NC gets mentioned, when there are surely others who attended the school that have earned as high, or nearly as high honors, in the military that will never be mentioned (we do not name non notable students)? Blame our society, which puts a much higher emphasis on sports than perhaps should be. Wikipedia merely reflects what's been written elsewhere. Thanks for being a Wikipedian, Bob. If I can help, stop back. I mostly work on US settlement and school articles, but I'm pretty good on all the technicalities here. John from Idegon (talk) 23:21, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, John from Idegon: I'm not attempting to argue opinion, nor do I think you are trying to argue opinion. I believe we're both looking for the applicable policy. And in that regard, I take your point that "school articles are about the institution, not the people who attended" and that given there is a wikilink to the full article on Ernie Cheatham, readers can learn more about him there.

Cheers. Bob Cummings (talk) 15:23, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hi there!

I’d just like to say thank you for the edits and helpful suggestions on the Tahoma High School page. I was asked to fix up the page but clearly I am not very good with Wikipedia just yet. I’ll make sure to source the edits I made more reliably and clearly and I will find pictures with a Creative Commons license. When uploading the uncopyrighted pictures on my phone, I didn’t really realize that I needed to find a Creative Commons one, so thanks for clearing that up. Finally, thanks for not being a jerk about my mistakes.

Nolanapeters (talk) 02:11, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Lawton Chiles High School

John, could you have a look at Lawton Chiles High School? I reverted the removal of some sourced content, but immediately questioned my own edit. The situation is somewhat similar, and somewhat different from the one with the article about the school in Boston. While Wikipedia is not censored, the Lawton Chiles article is probably a case of WP:NOTNEWS and/or WP:SYNTH...in any case, you put a lot more time into school articles than I do, I thought you might clean it up, probably removing much of the material. My thought is that unless there's an article about faculty misconduct, putting all these in here is original research. What do you think?Jacona (talk) 12:47, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

• I've opened a thread here [1]. Doesn't look like this belongs in an encyclopedia. And feel better, John. 2601:188:180:11F0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 14:03, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks so much John! Jacona (talk) 18:26, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank Bob (2601, etc). His talk gets followed much more than mine. I only archived the talk page! Good to hear from you, JaconaFrere. John from Idegon (talk) 21:12, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

What does "FFS" in your below referenced comment mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Boston_College_High_School&type=revision&diff=856691530&oldid=856688043 178.2.45.102 (talk) 22:37, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Look it up, it's a common expression of exasperation. John from Idegon (talk) 22:39, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Gird your loins!

The Northern Hemisphere is fast approaching that time of year when students' thoughts turn to Wikipedia vandalism. Meters (talk) 04:52, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

I love autumn! It went from int the 100's (F) here last week to me having to turn my furnace on this morning. But, yeah. I like spring much better as far as that goes. Young men's fancy's turn to baseball (and girls). John from Idegon (talk) 20:01, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

The First Academy

John for Idegon, I see you're doing solid work on behalf of the WikiSchools community. I work for The First Academy, where we've had a Wikipedia article since the mid 2000s. I'll be honest, it's never been the greatest article, but it's always been trolled by kids who thought it was funny to insert a random vandalism on the page. So it became a requirement of our Admissions department to periodically check the page. Over time, they added a bit of content, but nothing amazing, they would update the enrollment numbers, etc. With the recent departure of our Admissions Director, the updates have been redirected to the Marketing department, where I reside. Initially, I came to our school page and was surprised to see that our content had been scrapped and left with a topic called 'Controversy' about an incident where a student while unenrolled, off-campus decided to privately post to her friends an inappropriate racial slur question. Users had also vandalized the Head of School and Principal with racist authors.

First, I tried to remove the 'Controversy' topic and add significant school details, figuring if every incident that occurred in schools were to be posted on their wikipedia page, the pages would result in what seemed read like a giant a discipline log. Then I went to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools and reviewed some of the Featured Articles. I found they generally talked about their highlights, awards, notable persons, academics, buildings, arts, and sports. So I did just that. I made the Arts Section, and added significant details about the arts, and continued on with the athletic program. I noticed a fair amount of the featured schools had their motto, The First Academy's is 'Christ-centered, College Preparatory', so I wrote that into the content. I saw the Schools Portal itself has a school listing its accolades, i.e. Blue Ribbon school, so I included our merits about being a twice blue ribbon school, just like the one in the school portal article.

Being new to editing Wikipedia, I didn't realize it was a violation to remove a section, which was the first reason my edits were undone; additionally, I was told my work needed to be cited. So I re-wrote the content, left the controversy section, and cited every line. The majority of my edits were school details, so for a large portion I cited various pages on the schools website.

Again my content was removed, and the editors even told me that they didn't care for our motto (about half of the featured articles of WikiSchools list their motto) nor our mission statement (the WikiSchools featured article titled, "Baltimore City College Page", has an entire section devoted to their mission). They continued to say my writing is too biased, and that my COI due to working for the school doesn't allow me to write for the page.

I would really appreciate if you would review our article, and help The First Academy's article. It would be encouraging if you could possibly rewrite one of the sections I wrote, so I can see how it should be written in an unbiased fashion, or let me know if I simply shouldn't touch the page further. --Timnethers (talk) 19:13, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Timnethers, I moved this to here from my unprotected talk page, because this page is not now protected and so some of my stalkers could weigh in. I'm very busy right now, but will look at this later in the day. If your work at FA includes managing web assets, publicity and or public relations, or you are an administrator, you have a special class of conflict of interest known as being a PAID editor. If not you still have a conflict of interest. (Blue words and phrases are links) Meantime, please read the links here and take the appropriate steps. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 19:44, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the Lorence Wenke Wikipedia page

Hello John! I saw that you recently "undid" my edit for the Lorence Wenke page.

All of the information (alma mater, children, etc.), including the public domain picture used, is available at his website votewenke.com. I figured that since his website was already cited it didn't need to be recited. If there are additional edits needed to ensure that the content, which is now more accurate and updated, remains live, let me know. Thanks! Joshwenke (talk) 23:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2018

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Our friend

The latest talk page edits just add even more evidence that he just doesn't get it and won't ever get it. It seems to me that it's a question of when, not whether he gets an indefinite block, and if there is any more of the same after the present block ends I shall very seriously consider whether the answer has become "now". The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 15:19, 30 August 2018 (UTC)