Egm4313.s12

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Nguyen Ngoc Bich moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Nguyen Ngoc Bich, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). In addition, right now the structure of this article is a mess. You might want to check out Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout, Wikipedia:Simplified Manual of Style, and Help:Your first article. I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:34, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

@Onel5969: Hi Onel5969, Thanks. I can now edit the draft in peace, without constant interventions (from a clique of editors who confused personal preferences with official rules, and just turned their personal preferences into their own personal rules on the fly to impose on others). Great idea. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 00:05, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nguyen Ngoc Bich (March 3)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robertsky was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Nguyen Ngoc Bich and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

– robertsky (talk) 13:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Egm4313.s12! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! – robertsky (talk) 13:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@Robertsky: Hi – robertsky, I am not disappointed at all, since now I understand better your process. It was a misunderstanding on my part. I did not understand your process, which was the first time for me. I thought I should submit the draft then continue to edit since I read that the backlog was some 3 months (!) so I had plenty of time to edit. But it should be the other way around, i.e, I should finish the draft into an article form before submitting for review. Thanks. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 00:03, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

@Robertsky: Hi – robertsky, I just submitted the Draft:Nguyen Ngoc Bich with all references in Wikipedia style. Please take a look. Thanks. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 22:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Nguyen Ngoc Bich 1962.png

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Nguyen Ngoc Bich (March 28)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by InterstellarGamer12321 was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Nguyen Ngoc Bich and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

InterstellarGamer12321 (talk | contribs) 17:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Chat

Sorry, misunderstanding. The chat still exists, but you don't necessarily have access to it unless you're using a dedicated IRC client that's set to log everything.

"The chat room" is not the same as "the conversation that we had using the chat room." DS (talk) 00:32, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

@DragonflySixtyseven: Thank you for letting me know. How do I set up a dedicated IRC client? Fortunately, I took screenshots of the chat transcript before I logged out, since copy and paste did not work. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 00:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Pick something from here (they're mostly free). We're on Libera.chat. DS (talk) 02:40, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Prusiner

I saw that section you added to the Prusiner article, and that really wasn't appropriate. It was sourced, yes, but it... it was written in such an inappropriate style that it was pretty well unsalvageable.

Should the article on Prusiner mention how controversial his work was at first, absolutely. But not like that. DS (talk) 17:19, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by "inappropriate"? Who decide what is or is not "inappropriate"? You? Explain. Why "unsalvageable"? Absolutely cryptic, unusable (useless), negative, information-less comment, i.e, nothing can be learned from your comment. Clarify yourself. Heresy was not in the article before I added that section and the sources. I am not spending more time with this article. I recently read about Prusiner, and noticed the Wikipedia article on him did not mention a most important controversial aspect of his work before people realized that he was right. I gave the sources; use them to add the information on heresy to make the article better for people who are not familiar with Prusiner (not for those who already know about him). Good luck. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 14:55, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

For complete documentation about the above exchange, I added the link Stanley B. Prusiner: Difference between revisions, in which User DS (talk reverted my addition. When I have time, I will cite Prusiner himself in a PNAS article in which he used the word "heresy." Egm4313.s12 (talk) 22:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@DragonflySixtyseven: Here is the 1998 PNAS review article by Prusiner himself on Prions in which he wrote: "The idea that scrapie prions were composed of an amyloidogenic protein was truly heretical when it was introduced." See also the large number of sources that mentioned the "heretic" idea on prions of Prusiner when it first appeared. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 12:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding User:Egm4313.s12/Nguyen Ngoc Bich essay

Hello, Egm4313.s12. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that User:Egm4313.s12/Nguyen Ngoc Bich essay, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 16:07, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@FireflyBot, The article User:Egm4313.s12/Nguyen Ngoc Bich essay is a subpage under my user space User:Egm4313.s12, not a draft article, which should not be deleted. Please let me know if I misunderstand something. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 18:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@FireflyBot, Problem solved. I removed the tag that said the subpage User:Egm4313.s12/Nguyen Ngoc Bich essay was a draft; it is not (at least no longer). Egm4313.s12 (talk) 01:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

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Vietnamese pronouns

@DHN: If the article Đại từ nhân xưng were more general, and equivalent to the English article Personal pronoun, then the article Vietnamese pronouns would be a particular case of the above two articles. If you were to start a Vietnamese article equivalent to Vietnamese pronouns, what would be the title? "Đại từ nhân xưng tiếng Việt" does not seem right since the article would be already in Vietnamese. Or perhaps "Cách xưng hô của người Việt," "Đại từ nhân xưng của người Việt," etc.

I am looking to explain (in English for later generations) in our family history the meaning of the tile "Cụ" which is used as a polite title to address our ancestors, and found it is mentioned in Vietnamese pronouns, where all pronouns were not capitalized.

In English, titles such as Mr., Mrs., etc. are capitalized. See, e.g., Title and Capitalization where it is written "Most English honorifics and titles of persons, e.g. Sir, Dr Watson, Mrs Jones, His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. This does not apply where the words are not titles; e.g. Watson is a doctor, Philip is a duke."

I noticed in Vietnamese, many times, titles like "Cụ", "Ông", "Bà", etc. were not capitalized, e.g., "ông Carter" ("mr. Carter") instead of "Ông Carter" ("Mr. Carter"). Is there a definitive rule of capitalizing titles in Vietnamese? Or is it up to the writer to capitalize to express respect, politeness, etc.?

Consider this 2008 proceedings of a meeting of Vietnamese historians. In the Opening Remarks by Vuong Van Kiet, p.9, it was written "Chúa Nguyễn" ("Lord Nguyen") with title capitalized, but in the first article by the well-known Vietnamese historian Phan Huy Le, p.12, it was written "chúa Nguyễn" ("lord Nguyen") with lowercase title.

Historian Trần Trọng Kim in his well-known 1920 book Việt Nam Sử Lược also did not capitalize titles, e.g., "vua Nhân Tông và vua Anh Tông" ("king Nhan Tong and king Anh Tong").

An ancestor of ours passed the triennial exam "Huong" in the 35th regnal year "Canh Hung" under "King Le Hien Tong." The Vietnamese article Giai thoại kỳ thú về niên hiệu Cảnh Hưng của vua Hậu Lê did not capitalize the title "King" ("Vua") but wrote "vua Lê Hiển Tông," so are Wikipedia articles such as vi:Lê_Hiển_Tông.

In current Vietnamese literature, such as Tài năng và nhân cách lớn của nhà chí sĩ yêu nước Nguyễn Văn Tố Internet archived 2021.06.14, it seems that "regular" titles such as "cụ" ("senior"), "ông" ("mr = mister"), "bà" ("mrs = mistress"),... are not capitalized, except for titles connected to a profession or to the government such as "Bác sĩ" ("Doctor"), "Thiếu tướng" ("Major General"), "Chủ tịch" ("Chairman"),... where only the 1st word is capitalized.

The Vietnamese article vi:Chức_danh, which was linked to the article Title as its "equivalent," is still in a poor state, and is not exactly the equivalent. Capitalization rule for "titles" in Vietnamese was not mentioned.

Egm4313.s12 (talk) 16:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

@Egm4313.s12 "Đại từ nhân xưng tiếng Việt" is fine. For example, vi.wiki already has vi:Thành ngữ gốc Hán trong tiếng Việt, vi:Ngữ pháp tiếng Việt, vi:Âm vị học tiếng Việt, vi:Chính tả tiếng Việt, etc.

For capitalization, the rules aren't consistent. This article mentions some standardization rules, but they only apply to specific official documents. The relevant rules are V-3 (titles are capitalized if they accompany a specific person's name) and V-8 (names of historic events and dynasties are capitalized). DHN (talk) 19:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

@DHN: Why don't you create a stub for the Vietnamese article "Đại từ nhân xưng tiếng Việt" with an initial translation of the Introduction in Vietnamese pronouns to begin, link to Vietnamese pronouns, and put a tag at the top to ask people to contribute?

It would help readers to emphasize in the Introduction of Vietnamese pronouns that this article is a particular case of Personal pronoun with the Vietnamese equivalent Đại từ nhân xưng, as such distinction is not clear as of today version 19:51, 24 December 2023 by user:DHN.

It is still unsettling and inconsistent to write "Chu tich Nguyen Van Ba," with capitalized "Chu tich," but then write "vua Le Hien Tong," without using the capitalized "Vua," even though both "Chu tich" and "Vua" are titles for specific government positions. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 20:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

@DHN: It still bothers me that if you could not create the Vietnamese article "Đại từ nhân xưng tiếng Việt" that could stand by itself (without being deleted by admins), and is different from the article Đại từ nhân xưng in substance, then it is fine to link the article Vietnamese pronouns to the article Đại từ nhân xưng, which also describes the many pronouns listed in Vietnamese pronouns and their use, unless you can articulate clear differences, which appear rather fuzzy.

It is rather odd that the article Vietnamese pronouns has no equivalent in Vietnamese.

The best way to test is for you to create the Vietnamese article "Đại từ nhân xưng tiếng Việt" and see what others think about it. Some may think that "Đại từ nhân xưng tiếng Việt" is a duplication of, or has extensive overlaps with, Đại từ nhân xưng. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 16:23, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Ho Chi Minh, Leclerc, Sainteny image

@Monopoly31121993(2):

I just noticed that you posted on 2023 Nov 7 the image c:File:1946_Ho_Chi_Minh_Leclerc_Sainteny_2.png that I uploaded on 2023 Jun 15 in the articles Jean Sainteny (Revision diff) and Ho–Sainteny_agreement (Revision diff), and wondered how you found out about this image. Perhaps there is a search method I did not know, and can learn from. Thank you. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 16:23, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Egm4313.s12, I don't remember when or how I first saw the images but they're important historical documents and I really doubt if there was any copyright issue with this. If you are able to upload other images about 1945/1946 that would be very useful on Wikipedia because there really aren't many images documenting this period. Also, when you upload images be sure to add tags and good descriptions so other editors can easily find them and use them on Wikipedia. Thanks for your efforts. Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 11:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Plaine des Joncs

Hello, Egm4313.s12. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Plaine des Joncs, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 22:05, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

April 2024

Thank you for your contributions. It seems that you have added Creative Commons licensed text to one or more Wikipedia articles, such as Draft:Karl S. Pister. You are welcome to import appropriate Creative Commons licensed content to articles, but in order to meet the Wikipedia guideline on plagiarism, such content must be fully attributed. This requires not only acknowledging the source, but acknowledging that the source is copied. There are several methods to do this described at Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Compatibly licensed sources, including the usage of an attribution template. Please make sure that any Creative Commons content you have already imported is fully attributed. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 20:26, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Thanks for your note. I just checked my draft version 00:30, 11 April 2024 (before you added the references): The attributions are there at the bottom of each section. Did you see that I was the author of the Introduction? I am the editor of this special issue honoring Karl Pister, and the Co-Editor-in-Chief of the CMES journal. Both the special issue as the CMES journal are linked in the draft. The reference section is not completed yet (thanks for adding the references in my draft version 20:30, 12 April 2024). Egm4313.s12 (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC) = Prof. Loc Vu-Quoc, vuquocloc@yahoo.com, Publications, Google Scholar.

@Diannaa: It is an overkill to have a note to refer to the same reference at the end of each paragraph in the same section, as you did in my draft version 20:30, 12 April 2024. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 23:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

What I am talking about is the fact that you did not indicate that the content you added to Wikipedia was copied unaltered from the source documents. Adding citations is not enough; indicating that the material has been copied is also required. That's the "attribution" part of the CC BY 4.0 Deed Attribution 4.0 International license. Attribution can be added via a template, like I did here. (I also added links to the source articles by providing citations). The reason I added a citation for each paragraph is to make it clear exactly which content was copied. — Diannaa (talk) 00:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I will do it differently, using a framebox for quotation. The version 00:30, 11 April 2024 was a DRAFT ! not a final version. And the attribution was to the authors, cited at the end of each section before your modification. I don't like to use <ref></ref>, and will use {{efn}} and {{sfn}} instead. On the other hand, you helped to show the use of some new parameters related to CC documents in the citation "cite web". Thanks. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 15:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC) = Prof. Loc Vu-Quoc, vuquocloc@yahoo.com, Publications, Google Scholar.

Adherence to the rules and policies about copyright and proper attrubution of licensed material is required everywhere on Wikipedia, even in sandboxes and drafts. — Diannaa (talk) 18:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I am far completing this work !!! Where is that rule? Can you give the link and a direct quotation of the rule? Drafts are not indexed by Google. This rule, if it exists, makes no common sense, and should be changed. ONE MORE TIME: The authors were cited at the end of each section. It does not seem that you read what I wrote above. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC) = Prof. Loc Vu-Quoc, vuquocloc@yahoo.com, Publications, Google Scholar.

I did read what you wrote, but what you said is not quite correct. "Attribution" and "citing your sources" are not the same thing. Regarding the status of drafts, if you click on the "Edit" button or tab for any page on Wikipedia (including a draft), you get a message that states: "Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted." Here is a link to the copyright policy, an official Wikipedia policy with legal implications: WP:Copyrights. For copying compatibly licensed content, the section to look at is WP:COPYOTHERS. You could also have a look at the information at Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources which gives explanations of how the rules are applied. — Diannaa (talk) 00:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Diannaa: I moved the draft to Citizendium Karl S. Pister, where anonymous users cannot edit, on 17:44, 14 April 2024 (see history), and where I can work in peace. You violated the CC-BY-4.0 copyright by not citing the names of the authors in the references; see Karl S. Pister, version 12:02, 20 April 2024 in Citizendium where the names of the authors appear in the references. As I wrote in my first reply to you: "The reference section is not completed yet" at 21:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC), and again "I am far completing this work !!!" at 18:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC), as I had not completed my work, and would eventually do the references. Again, you showed some good way to cite the CC licenses. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 16:14, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Correction: {{cite web}} did not cite the names of the authors in Citizendium as in the transferred version 12:44, 14 April 2024, but did in Wikipedia as in your version 20:30, 12 April 2024. In Citizendium, I changed {{cite web}} to {{citation}} to show the names of the authors; see Karl S. Pister. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 18:36, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Just to illustrate the point made above, I just copied the first paragraph from the source again without reference as shown in Karl S. Pister version 18:43, 20 April 2024 to test the use of {{Cquote}}. Now you would come in to put in the reference. Egm4313.s12 (talk) 18:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)