User talk:Capitalistroadster/Archive

This is an archive for my earlier messages dating from February 2004 to October 2005.

Well done on the Gomez article - a much needed and well-written update. --HappyDog 00:48, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Glad you can edit

I don't know why you're thanking me - I wasn't able to actually do anything :-( But I see someone else must have sorted you out. (I was a bit worried because I have no access to my work email for the next couple of months, so if you emailed me in the meantime i would not have replied) Anyway I'm glad you can now edit, and I'm glad you like the picture of my tits :-) theresa knott 19:31, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Text of Lil Jon article

Lil Jon is an Atlanta rap producer and vocalist. He is best known as a pioneer of the crunk style of rap.

Career History

Lil Jon was born Jonathan Smith in Atlanta. He was working as a club dj when Jermaine Dupri discovered him and invited him to work as an A and Rman for So So Def. Lil Jon also hosted a radio show on V103. He also started doing remixes for Atlantas artists Usher, Too Short, Xscape and Total. He would work for So So Def between 1993 and 2000,

In 1996, Lil Jon linked up with the Eastside Boyz consisting of Big Sam and Lil Bo to produce the album Get Crunk, Who U Wit:Da Album. This contained the song "Who You Wit" which became a club anthem in Atlanta. This song would be a pivotal track in the development of crunk featuring booming bass, synthesiser riffs and loud vocal chants. DJ Smurf of the Ying Yang Twins has said of his contribution "Anything you say about crunk has to start with Lil Jon."[1]

Lil Jon and the Eastside Boyz returned in 2001 with Put Your Hood Up. "Bia Bia" the single from the album featuring Ludacris, Too Short and Chyna Whyte became a hit in clubs throughout the US and also made the top twenty downloads on MP3.com.

In 2002, Lil Jon & the Eastside Boyz released their breakthrough album Kings of Crunk. The first single "I Don't Give a ****" featuring Mystikal and Krayzie Bone became another dancefloor filler. However, it was "Get Low" with the Ying Yang Twins and its catchy hook "from the window to the wall" that became a breakout hit. It would go top 5 in a composite worldwide r&b chart (compiled from US, German, French, UK and Australian r&b charts) in 2003 and internet download charts. It would also break Lil Jon internationally going into the top 40 in markets such as Germany and Australia in 2004. Based on the success of "Get Low", Kings of Crunk would make the top twenty of the US album chart in September 2003. Lil Jon would put out a compilation CD and DVD in 2003 called Part II featuring remixes of "Get Low" featuring Busta Rhymes and Elephant Man as well as the Ying Yang Twins.

In late 2003, Usher would ask Lil Jon to produce and appear on "Yeah" the lead single from his Confessions album. The track would become one of the biggest hits of 2004 topping the Billboard Hot 100, European, World, US and World R&B charts, World Adult, Australian, Norwegian and Swiss charts and reached number 2 in Canada.

Lil Jon is currently working on an album Crunk Juice which will feature contributions from Rick Rubin, R. Kelly, Ice Cube, Timbaland Usher and Ludacris. He will also be working with KoЯn for a track on their next album for release later in 2004[2].

Lil Jon and the Eastside Boys

As of 2004, Lil Jon and the Eastside Boyz consists of:

• Lil Jon;

• Big Sam; and

• Lil Bo.

Discography

• Get Crunk, Who U Wit: Da Album (1997)
• Put Yo Hood Up (2001)
• Kings of Crunk (2002)
• Part II (2003 CD and DVD combination)

Links

• Lil Jon Online
• MTV Lil Jon page
• MSNBC article on crunk

Good stuff

Excellent work on damper, a very satisfying result all round IMO. I'll try to remember to take some photos next time I make some. Andrewa 03:22, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Thanks for your kind words. It was interesting to do the research for it. Capitalistroadster 03:28, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Cempoala

Here's a WikiThanks for the good work the rest of us were too lazy to do on Cempoala. Keep up the good work! JRM 14:21, 2004 Dec 7 (UTC)

• JRM, Thank you for the kind words.

Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

• Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
• Multi-Licensing Guide
• Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

• Folks, for the record my articles are released under the {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} and {{MultiLicensePD}}.

Capitalistroadster 20:28, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You can copy the template onto your user page or a page such as User:Capitalistroadster/Copyright (without the "nowiki" tags) for this to take effect. – Ram-Man ^{(comment) (talk)}[[]] 20:33, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

Avoiding a copyvio

Can you please see my question/suggestion to you at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Teresa Salgueiro? -- Jmabel | Talk 09:38, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

• • OK. Have done. Capitalistroadster 10:32, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Lost and Found (band)

Hello. Drzen left me a message that seemed to imply you were changing your vote for Lost and Found. Is this the case? [[User:GRider|GRider\^talk]] 17:08, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

San Marin High School

While I'm visiting, would you mind weighing in on the San Marin HS article? I value your opinion (and any content you may be able to reference in). [[User:GRider|GRider\^talk]] 18:41, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Public domain

I noticed that you were using both {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} and {{MultiLicensePD}} for your contributions. I removed {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} since it is meaningless if they are in the public domain. Guanaco 04:08, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Isaac Wolfe Bernheim

The article looks much better now. Thank you for verifying and cleaning it up! Voted keep. Inter 11:51, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Kudos

You're the best article-saver around. Bravo and thanks for your work. Samaritan 15:34, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Royal Palace in Oslo

I wrote a stub on the palace mostly as a placeholder for the images from Commons, but please don't hesitate working on it, if you had been planning to do so. I probably won't do anything more on the article (for now anyway). / u p p l a n d 09:56, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Uppland,

I hope to add something about the other Royal residences in Norway hopefully this weekend. It depends on whether I get through other editing tasks. Capitalistroadster 10:16, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cheers!

You're a lifesaver for some of those VfD articles. Once 'round the room, folks, three cheers! humblefool® 22:38, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pauline LaFon Gore

Thank you for your work in un-tangleing this. I don't know how you do it but, you do. You seem to rescue a lot of redeemable articles. Thanks again, hydnjo talk 05:18, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you to Hydnjo and Humblefool for your kind words. Capitalistroadster 05:32, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Carl Meinhof

Good work on the Meinhof article! / u p p l a n d 12:08, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Argentine_Currency_Board

I have noticed your thoughtful contributions to VfD (both ways!). Could I trouble you to take a look at Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Argentine_Currency_Board. I am not lobbying for your vote either way, but no-one seems to be looking at this one (perhaps because it is a long article, and fairly technical), and I do believe it is worthy of some serious consideration before it gets deleted simply for lack of interest. Thanks. HowardB 02:09, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Truelove Eyre

I have substantially cleaned up the Truelove Eyre article based on the references that User:DragonflySixtyseven found, and have removed the spurious claims about the Eyre Empire etc. I am changing my vote to keep: can I persuade you to do the same? Thanks! GeorgeStepanek\^talk 01:41, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have had a look at your changes and they are much better. Capitalistroadster 07:13, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Frensham school

Thanks for the improvements to this article (especially the alumnae with reasons for notability) and for telling me. It cheers me, doesn't upset me. I'll reconsider the VfD. Barno 16:05, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Shelf corporation

As far as I can tell, a shelf corporation is a shell corporation + time. Can't it be covered adequately in shell corporation? Gazpacho 01:03, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Self-induced abortion vfd.

Thank you for voting to keep the article on self-induced abortion. I promise to continue working to develop and improve this article. -- BD2412 ^talk 15:17, 2005 Jun 17 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Pleasurehorse

Your opinion is sought. Uncle G 17:07, 2005 Jun 17 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property

Please explain how this article is "notable" w.r.t. Inappropriate Uses of Wikipedia? Ariele 03:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In that it appears to be a institution in existence for 30 years which has taken on stances on moral issues. Capitalistroadster 05:41, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Michael Lohman

I would ask that you reconsider your vote at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Michael Lohman. You said "Appear to be crimes of mainly local interest and therefore not enough to establish notability." - I have changed the article and I believe it now demonstrates the national interest of the incident. Thanks, Sirmob 7 July 2005 04:54 (UTC)

You are a sockpuppet

Of me.

According to Melissadolbeer. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Melissadolbeer where this accusation is made. ~~~~ 09:00, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration

Melissadolbeer has opened a request for arbitration against you (at WP:RFAR). ~~~~ 09:27, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Can I ask you to re-sign Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Melissadolbeer (so that it has a later date & time), as I have had to re-arrange the order of the sections, as it previously appeared that you endorsed Melissadolbeer's summary, which does not reflect what your comments suggested. ~~~~ 10:34, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/The Avalon Boys (new)

Your opinion is sought. Uncle G 11:45, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/I'll Get You

Hi - can I get you to have another look at this now that I've extended the article? Cheers, Grutness...wha? 09:43, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Grutness,

I'll have a look at it. Capitalistroadster 10:35, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Darwin's illess

Dear Capitalistroadster,

Thank you for your keep vote in the "Darwin's illness" area of Wikipedia. It is appreciated. I did a lot of hard work.

Sincerely,

7/25/2005 kdbuffalo

Matthew

Hi, you voted to Merge Authentic Matthew at a VFD. However, the salvagable content of the article was already merged prior to the previous VFD. Is it possible for you to reconsider your vote? ~~~~ 08:12, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Vocal profile controversy

There is an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music/Notability_and_Music_Guidelines#Vocal_profile_controversy regarding the insertion of vocalist profiles without the citation of credible references. This is the consolidation of several similar discussions taking place in parallel in an effort to resolve this matter by community consensus. At your earliest convenience, would you mind visiting this issue and providing your feedback? Thank you. Hall Monitor 17:18, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

consensus

The Authentic Matthew VFD has closed. The results were

• Delete - 21 (58%)
• Keep - 11 (31%)
• Merge - 4 (11%)

This was declared to have been no consensus, and therefore a new VFD has been opened at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Authentic Matthew (consensus).

Would you be prepared to add a vote there?

You voted to merge at the original VFD, but the article has already been merged, and merge does not appear to be a result which would anyway obtain consensus. ~~~~ ( ! | ? | * ) 09:48, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Chocolate City

Good job with the Chocolate City article. Punkmorten 23:41, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

• Thank you, Punkmorten. Capitalistroadster 23:42, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Address to the Deil

Great rewrite! This is an example of the VfD process working at its best, I think, since we've not got some great content there. I'll be going to the VfD on this one and changing my vote. Kudos to you. Tobycat 21:48, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Russian architecture

Nice work re-writing the article. I was surprised when I was researching the VfD to not find any actual pages on Russian architecture, so I'm glad that you have done something to address that. Well played. Ëvilphoenix ^Burn! 16:33, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for rewriting Phil Morle

I've never heard of him, so I didn't vote in the VfD, but you took the article from a single sentence to something that looks like a proper article. Good job. Cheers! --DavidConrad 00:15, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Burns

Another great save on Red, Red Rose. I'm thinking, in the future when I come across such things how would it be if I pointed them out to you for potential improvement, rather than sending them to VfD? Might save some time and space over there. I don't want to assign work to people if they're not willing though. How about it? -R. fiend 14:46, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Capitalistroadster 15:11, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

OK. What about Carlton Mellick III? That article needs help. Punkmorten 18:00, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

A Red, Red Rose

I have written an article on this poem which you rightly nominated for deletion because it contained the text and nothing else. I would be grateful if you could have a look at it. Capitalistroadster 11:29, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Good work. I have been bold and removed the vfd template :). Thue | talk 18:38, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Mark Kobayashi-Hillary

Absolutely agree that there are many journalists and non-fiction authors who are notable in their own right and deserve to have articles written about them. I don't even have a problem with such people writing an autobiography. But valid autobiographies can shade into mere vanity pages (I suppose everyone is notable to themselves!). Maybe all than can be done is to vfd the more marginal pages and let the community decide? Dlyons493 02:52, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Population Cycle

I Checked out new version of Population Cycle and changed vote to Keep. Good work. -- WCFrancis 13:30, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I, Journalist award Capitalistroadster this barnstar for his exceptional improvement of the article "Population cycle".

After reading the article, I changed my vote to keep. Good Work and keep it up! Journalist ^{C.File:Smilie.gif Holla @ me!}

Historical musicology

Many thanks for your re-write of the historical musicology article - great work! I've changed my VfD vote accordingly. CLW 09:37, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Patricia Hill Collins

Well done! Thanks for your significant improvements to this article. I knew she didn't belong on WP:CSD; now I'm convinced that she's a very important American scholar. Wikipedia needs more editors like you. Pburka 14:31, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Shooting Fish

You voted on the article's deletion, however there was also a film by that name which Sabine's Sunbird and I have edited the article to refer to. Note the film is linked to from both the Kate Beckinsale and Stuart Townsend articles. I hope you will reconsider your vote in light of this information. Steve block talk 21:35, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JDizzle Comics

Hello, you voted on this VfD which I had accidentlally pasted Gillian Slovo instead of JDizzle Comics. I cleared all votes in order to remove any bias because of my stupidity so please vote again knowing that it is about JDizzle Comics. Sorry and thanks. gren グレン 21:29, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Serbian culture

Thanks for asking me to take a look at this article. I'm totally impressed, and will be retracting my nomination immediately. This article is further proof that sometimes the best thing that can happen to an article is to go to AfD. Denni☯ 20:16, 2005 September 7 (UTC)

Chuukese language

Hi, I've totally re-written Chuukese language. You may want to reconsider your vote at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chuukese language accordingly. Thanks! --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 06:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Krop

Greetings. An article you voted to keep in a previous VfD (Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Michael Krop) has been nominated for deletion once again. Cheers! -- BD2412 ^talk 03:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

• Damn, that was fast! -- BD2412 ^talk 03:31, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Katherine Beck

In Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Katherine Beck you indicated you felt Katherine Beck met the WP:Bio for work she had published. I wanted to ask if you based that on the article, seeing something on the web, personally seeing her work, or on some other source. As I explain at Talk:Katherine Beck I think the whole article is at best unverifiable or at worst a hoax. But, I'm happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken. --rob 08:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Chart positions of songs

• Society (song) (AfD discussion)
• Pele (band) (AfD discussion)

What are your sources for the historical chart positions of songs? Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs could do with a list of such resources, and it would help me in at least two AFD discussions to be able to look up chart positions. Uncle G 10:05:27, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

Appreciation

The Plenary Indulgence

I, Alf, present you, Capitalistroadster, with this Plenary Indulgence for your exceptional work and dilligence in saving articles from being binned. You are very much appreciated.

May His Holy face shine upon you, now and always. Alf ^melmac 20:54, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Burnside, New South Wales

I feel this "suburb" is a slightly different case to the others listed for deletion. I have provided a bit more information in the article. Could you take a look and see what you think? JPD 09:19, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alleged causes of Hurricane Katrina

I realize that there were strong feelings on both sides with respect to the outcome of the AfD for this article, now located at Alternative theories regarding Hurricane Katrina. I would like to assure those who expressed concerns about the content, tone, and potential for degradation of this article that I intend for it to continue to exist only as long as is necessary to draw the contributions of fringe theorists away from the more substantial Hurricane Katrina articles. Once interest in this topic dies down, I'll quietly trim and merge this information into the appropriate general-topic articles. In the interim, I will carefully watch this page to prevent it from being abused, and I will continue to work towards making this article NPOV, properly sourced, and useful to those seeking an accurate record of the hysterics that so often follows catastrophe. Cheers. -- BD2412 ^talk 00:50, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

BD2412,

That sounds good to me.

Capitalistroadster 01:05, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Alligator Rivers

Great fix on the article. I had taken off my old opinion and will take off the VfD tag.

I, V. Molotov, hereby give you this Working Man's Barnstar for your extensive work on Wikipedia - Take care, Molotov (talk) 21:08, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ah-ni-ku-ta-ni

Hiya, left a question for you on the deletion page. Would be interested to see if you have any input. Cheers. Vizjim 10:12, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for the kind mention and the vote to keep. If you haven't already, take a look at the Halloween parade article -- I think it's a peach! paul klenk 05:47, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Music_Collaboration_of_the_Week

There isn't a specific process in creating its not a bad idea to try to draw support before creating it though. Also, the link above was the previous Music collab which you could use. Falphin 00:28, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Classical Music

I like your suggestion for WP:classical in the Annette Daniels votes for deletion. Crypticfirefly 04:14, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

By the way, why are anonymous users allowed to nominate articles when their votes are not counted?

On the AFD for 21 Jump Street you asked "By the way, why are anonymous users allowed to nominate articles when their votes are not counted?" The reason is that it's only their votes that are not counted; if an anon has a good point to make in an AFD discussion, it won't be disregarded just because they're an anon. Frankly, sometimes an article is desperately in need of deletion and once it's brought to public attention, the article is quickly unanimously disposed of. I think having to go through the occasional "speedy keep" for WKRP or 21 Jump Street is worth is if it means that total hoaxes like Tryad get exposed and disposed of. -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:12, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Additionally, one of the main reasons anons are not counted in AFD is to prevent people from just coming back anonymously to try and make it look like more people want the article deleted. Since it only requires one person to nominate, we don't have to worry about anon socks in that step. --Aquillion 23:54, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

AFD: SF Giants All-Time Team

You said: This article has no sourcing and thus appears to be a personal opinion of the author. This article could be saved if a reliable source was added showing who selected the team and their credentials. I will vote to delete unless a credible source is shown for the claim. If one is provided, I will vote to keep. Please contact me on my talk page if you have tracked down a source.

If it helps any, the players mentioned on the page up for deletion are exactly the starting roster for the 2005 Giants team. Source: [3] Colin M. 07:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Orchids of Western Australia AfD

Just letting you know that this has been expanded, and will get some more work done on it soon. --Apyule 07:05, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Ear-lye in the morning

Well done with Drunken Sailor; am changing my vote to reflect your excellent work. DS 12:13, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Matt Kaeberlein

• Sjakkale,

As noted on the AfD discussion, I have identified the source of the copyvio. However, our Caloric restriction article links there and as discussed on the AfD debate, he has probably done enough in my book to warrant an article. However, the copyvio should be deleted. Capitalistroadster 11:29, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

OK, thanks for finding a source of the copyvio. Now, I am no good at all with handling copyvios (legal mumbo-jumbo is not my strongpoint.) Is it possible to tag this article as a copyvio, list it at WP:CP, and start up a proper article a a /temp subpage? Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:34, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

• Sjakalle,

I will give it a go. Capitalistroadster 11:51, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Adminship?

BTW, is there any reason you have not yet become an administrator? I would be happy to put up an RFA for you. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:54, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

You Give Good Love

It is a vastly improved article now. But my merge vote wasn't due to the article's quality, it was because of the guidelines at WP:MUSIC. Now that the article is a bit more informative, I get that this is the single that launched Houston's career. Maybe that's, um, "notable" enough to deserve its own article. If one takes a look at Whitney Houston (album), though, it's just this enormously long article of tables. There's no text in it whatsoever. That suggests to me that if one pushes all of the informative text into articles on singles, what's left is album articles that look like that. I think that the guidelines at WP:MUSIC make sense, but I am not at all opposed to discussing them, and, especially, trying to establish some clearer consensus about what singles deserve articles. Right now we have a situation in which people are ignoring the guidelines and making articles on singles, compilation albums, and even individual album track recordings. This may suggest that consensus about what deserves an article has changed since those guidelines were written. I think that discussion needs to happen, but not at AfD, nor by individuals creating articles on singles that are good enough that it would be a shame to delete them. Does my merge vote make sense to you? Jkelly 15:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

• Yes it does given the guidelines at WP:music. However, I intend to raise this on the talk pages of both the Wikiproject music and Wikiproject songs over the weekend. I think we need to reassess the assumption that albums are necessarily more important than songs. I think that this is at most applicable to a period roughly between the mid 1950's and mid 1990's. For much of the history of music, songs were more important. In the case of the Whitney Houston album, we could merge the articles on the four or five singles we currently have onto the album and improve it as it is a significant album by any measure. However, we do have 27 articles on Whitney Houston songs and there is one example on the Waiting to Exhale soundtrack where we have an article on songs from the album but not the album itself.

The album (music) article states that the album dates back to the gramophone. However, there were notable songs dating back well before the development of the gramophone. For example, Drunken Sailor mistakenly referred to as What do you do with a Drunken Sailor is a notable sea shanty. However, it isn't associated with any particular album. Many notable traditional songs are in the same boat.

For the period up until the 1950's, songs were much more important to musicians than albums as consumers couldn't afford to buy many albums. Up until the 1950's, the most important aim of an artist was to record a million-selling song. While albums were issued, not much attention was played to them.

Albums were important for a period between the 1950s and 1990s. You can use it for artists such as Frank Sinatra, The Beatles and Nirvana. However, if you look at a comparison of notable albums and songs for the modern era, some things become clear. Artists like Elvis Presley and most of the soul/r&b artists will be underrepresented if you look at albums only. Motown released scores of notable singles during the 1960s and 1970s . However, What's Going On was the only truly notable album released by the label and Marvin Gaye had to really fight the label to put it out.

Further, I would argue that the album has become less important in recent years. If we look at our List of best-selling albums in the United States there are only five albums from the current decade in the top 100 all in the 1990s. They are by Outkast, Britney Spears, Linkin Park, Norah Jones and The Beatles. In case you are wondering the Beatles contribution is 1. Many of the albums on the list by the way are compilations. Songs have become much more important as they are now available for downloads independently of the album. Hollaback Girl by Gwen Stefani reached an important milestone. It became the first song to have a million copies legally downloaded legally from an album see [4]. It has also sold a large number of ringtones. With the rise of legal and illegal downloads and use of ringtones, songs have become much more important in the musical scheme of things and albums less so. Our musical guidelines need to reflect both contemporary musical trends as well as historical reality. As part of this process, articles on important songs such as You Give Good Love should be kept in their own right in my view as well as the album. I respect that you have voted alternatively and thanks for your note prompting my action. Capitalistroadster 20:40, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

There is a conversation going on here that I would very much like you to contribute to. After reading your response above, I am very optimistic about having a productive conversation about this. Jkelly 01:54, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Motown had many more notable albums besides What's Going On (Stevie Wonder's, for a start), which is probably the most notable, but not the only one. And reguardless of the quality of Motown's (and other early labels') albums, I would much prefer one article for the album that contains three or four singles rather than to create three or four song stubs with no hopes of expansion (which is what I did for The Temptations, and what was done for The Jackson 5. The notable songs got their own articles; the other ones--reguardless of whether they were hits or not--did not. I set the bar where, if I can't write about the song beyond a simple parroting of catalogue information--who wrote it, sug it, how much it sold, what the song is generally about--it's not notable enough to write about. A notable song has to have done something, made an significant impact on society, made someone famous, gotten someone killed, etc. A notable song is one that is frequently discussed in professional music publications long after its release, one that changes history, etc. Not even every hit song is notable.)

I don't think anyone is suggesting that all singles articles be merged to album articles. The suggestion appears to be, and reasonably so, that discresion should be used in both selecting which songs need articles and what to write about those songs. --FuriousFreddy 02:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Furious Freddy,

You are right. We do need to have consistent criteria for songs that is consistently sensible across various eras and genres - your definition is probably more restrictive than mine but I am sure that a concensus can be reached. As stated above, I will be turning my mind to this over the weekend on the various forums especially WP:music, as well as songs and albums. Your point about Stevie Wonder is well made. Capitalistroadster 02:42, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Re: Song criteria

You're welcome. --FuriousFreddy 02:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

(Cross-posted from AfD for Alanis Morissette: The Collection:

Guideline is here:

You can link to normal studio albums as much as you want. Caveat 1: Unless there's extenuating circumstances, greatest hits and compilation albums don't need an article.

Great thoughts at the songs discussion, by the way. Jkelly 15:12, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

• I think we ought to reconsider our thoughts on Greatest Hits albums as they are often the best selling album an artist ever makes. I will make that point at an appropriate place. Capitalistroadster 17:42, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Cyberbullying

Hi Your cleanup on this article has improved it greatly and now provides clarification as to why the concept merits encylopeadic inclusion. I am still not convinced about it not being 'postmodern jibberjabber' though ;-) Eddie.willers 11:59, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

• Liking the look of what you're suggesting. If I come across anything in my travels, I'll add it to the atricle.Do you know if anyone has made a redirect from Cyber bullying yet? Saberwyn 11:29, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

• No but I'm sure it could be done depending on the outcome of the AfD. Capitalistroadster 13:45, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Kalamaki

Thanks for cleaning up and expanding on this article. This is a notable resort town in Greece and it ought to be preserved. :) Andrew pmk | Talk 22:24, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The Song

Yes, I checked it out. The article looks really good now, no longer being a stub. FWIW, I changed my vote to "keep". Well done, that was a fine piece of de-stubbing. Cheers Banes 11:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Great work

...concerning "grave digging." Me and you had been in a similar discussion...I don't know if you received my messages or not, but I never heard back from you. Anyway, great work...see you around in the Wiki.

Take care, Molotov (talk)
02:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Re: I Want You.

Absolutely great work. Thank you. I agree with the merging, the move, and the disambiguation. --FuriousFreddy 11:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey Cap

Depsite all the excellent work you do rescuing all sorts from the bin, 203.62.10.9 is obviously unaware of that and made this edit to your user page, presumably you decided one article they liked wasn't worth rescuing? Alf ^melmac 11:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Article Rescue Contest

Hi. I saw this Article Rescue Contest and immediately thought of you. Don't know if you know about it already. Jkelly 21:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Taverna

Hi, thanks for the message. You've certainly put in some work on that article, but FWIW I still don't feel there's anything to say under that title that wouldn't be better said at something like Greek cuisine or Eating out in Greece or Drinking places in Greece or Types of ethnic restaurant or whatever. From the article I'd still be unclear what makes a taverna a taverna and not a bar or restaurant (some sources say it must have accommodation as well, a kind of inn, don't know whether that still holds), and I still don't know in what way the taverna "is (or further down "has become") an integral part of Greek culture". The film Shirley Valentine doesn't really tell us anything about tavernas. Also, the word in English as often as not refers to a Greek-themed restaurant in the UK or some other non-Greek country where it's "ethnic" cuisine, and where (as with any ethnic theme restaurant) the food served is not necessarily what you would get in Greece. So "in Greece" is not right (could also be elswehere in the Greek world such as Cyprus), and "a restaurant in Greece serving Greek cuisine" looks odd - surely that's just what you'd expect by default. I don't mean to sound negative but I still think it's a dicdef, with potential for merging your added material into articles on more encyclopaedic themes. However, you've certainly rescued the article from its original worthlessness, and I sense the tide of opinion may have turned against me... Best wishes Flapdragon 18:01, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Lame scandal

If Fitzmas does actually come, can I tease you mercilessly for judging far too early? :-p — ceejayoz ^talk 00:13, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

• Don't know. Depends on what it says. My view that any scandal based on the claims that a woman is working undercover when she is listed in Who's Who is lame. Capitalistroadster 01:16, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Danese Cooper

I added information about the only source you cited (other than showing OSI exists) in the AfD on the above topic. You might wish to reconsider your vote, or might not. Barno 20:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Nice work!

Hi, I just wanted to say you're doing a great job cataloguing and improving (where appropriate) the Australia-related AfDs. :) pfctdayelise 00:15, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

AFD on Clarecraft

I noticed you voted Delete in the Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Clarecraft for the very valid reason that it was simply a copy-paste from the company's website. I was not the original creator of the entry, but I've rewritten it, and I would appreciate if you'd take a look at the new article for Clarecraft and consider changing your vote. Thanks! Polotet 02:58, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

S paul academy

Hi, when possible, can you take a look back at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S paul academy. It turns out S paul academy, is merely a copy with (an attack/nonsense paragraph added). We should be able to deal with this, using a speedy redirect, and we can avoid the normal AFD debate I think. The signficance of the original Saint Paul Academy and Summit School was never in question. --rob 09:23, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Re: Peter Dunn, and a question

Another good save - I've changed my vote accordingly (I made a slight edit, making the disambiguation part a bit more "standard"). BTW, have you ever considered running for admin? I'd willingly nominate you if you like. Grutness...wha? 10:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Good work with Peter Dunn. It was easy to nominate for deletion with content like [Called] Pete to us all at Fort Street and no references or claims of notability, but now it reads much better and obviously with a reference like Who's who in Australia, even us non-Australians can be sure of his status.  freshgavin TALK   23:32, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

The Nymphs

Very nice job on improving that article. I still see it as 'on the fence' and will sustain my weak keep vote. Cheers. PJM 14:26, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

thanks for the compliment

Thanks for the vote and the compliment of the re-write of Nerur Prashanthns 11:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Bands and WP:NMG

Hi. First of all, thanks for your excellent work, especially in regard of saving articles from deletion. This, as I have noticed, often applies to bands which turn out to meet WP:MUSIC. Now, this is the case: I recently found a whole host of musical articles which don't seem to meet the guidelines (they're dubious at best), but I'm taking a hiatus of unknown length from Wikipedia. Therefore I am bringing them to someone's (i.e. your) attention, hoping that anyone could look into this while I'm gone. It would certainly be of benefit to Wikipedia.

The articles in question are: Abe Froman (band), Bitter Like The Bean Records, Boomfancy, Carrie Nations (band), Chris Johnston, Defiance Ohio (band), Erin Tobey, Harlan records, Japanther, Los Gatos Negros, Madeline Adams, Operation: Cliff Clavin, Rosa (band), Soophie Nun Squad, The Devil is Electric, The Max Levine Ensemble and finally The Sissies. Wow.

Kind regards and good luck, Punkmorten 20:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• I will give it a go. Thanks.

Capitalistroadster 22:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)