User talk:BlazerKnight/adoption

Request for adoption

Hello, Xeno. I'm a longtime Wikipedia user and created an account some time ago. I would like to begin contributing to the site but am intimidated by... well, everything. I found out about the adoption programme and would like your guidance. Thank you! (Please note that I am contacting several adopters at once) BlazerKnight (talk) 01:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I would also be happy to offer any help I can; with the caveat that I'm a very hands-off adopter, so just drop by my talk page whenever you have a question. –xeno^talk 16:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Questions

12 July to 23 July

Thanks for the adoption. Coupla questions: Is there a way to check the ranking (start class, featured article) of an article easily? Or do I have to find the corresponding page on that article's WikiProject? Also, I'm having trouble with edit summaries - I'm not familiar with the terminology and abbreviations. And can an edit summary be edited later? I made a mistake in one early summary... BlazerKnight (talk) 09:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The ranking and importance as assessed by the relevant WikiProjects can be seen at the talk page of the article. It is sometimes collapsed in a show/hide box. See also User:Xeno/wikiadopt#Reviewing articles... As far as the abbreviations, you could try WP:Alphabet soup or WP:Glossary to look things up you don't understand. Edit summaries can't be edited after the fact, but you could make a WP:Dummy edit to correct an error; if you felt it important. –xeno^talk 12:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. Yeesh, the terms in the glossary is gonna take some time to internalize. :P By the way I plan to work on Ragnarok Online soon. I left quite a lengthy message detailing a todo list of sorts on its talk page. Maybe you can take a look and see if I'm on the right track? Thanks. :) BlazerKnight (talk) 12:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I took a brief glance and it definitely looks like you are on the right track. Yes, the article does look a little bit gameguidey (especially the table of professions). You might look at other MMOs that are GA or FA class for an idea of how things should ideally be structured and how much weight should be given to gameplay elements. But it looks like you're ready to dive right in, so go ahead and be bold and start implementing your suggested changes. People may revert if they disagree, but then you can discuss it. This is the WP:BRD cycle that drives article development. –xeno^talk 12:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

By the way you don't need to leave talkbacks anymore, I have this page watched. I went to look for other good MMO articles, and they are few and far between... Final Fantasy XI is the only one I recognized so far. Also, looking at my own list now, I realize I have my work cut out for me, haha. Thanks for taking a look. BlazerKnight (talk) 13:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good =) Let me know if you had any specific questions. –xeno^talk 13:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I have been poking around in your Wikiadopt page and it was extremely useful. Especially learning about the gadgets tab in preferences. Question: you mention "Other types of pages are graded outside this criteria. Lists are no more than that, long lists of topics that all relate to the main theme of the list. Lists don't provide any prose, and any references are there simply to confirm that the topic does meet the criteria for inclusion." What about lists like List of Bleach episodes (season 9) which not only has episode synopses, it is rated as a featured list. Is this a new development and the info you posted outdated?
Also I plan on uploading a low-res, personal screenshot for Ragnarok Online (from the Southeast-Asian version), transcluding Template:Non-free game screenshot and Template:Non-free use rationale, filling all needed fields. Any part of the procedure that I missed? Retroactively signed, BlazerKnight (talk) 01:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Probably. Please be bold and update the lesson accordingly (I'll take a closer look later, just heading out the door). I haven't read these in a long while, probably Aug '08 =) I think that's right, a bot will eventually tell you if you get it wrong... –xeno^talk 00:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try updating that later. By the way what time are you usually active? For me, I'm most likely to be around from 0800 to 1200 hours, UTC time. BlazerKnight (talk) 01:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Hm, I typically start around 1200 UTC. –xeno^talk 03:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Heya. Just wondering if there was a way to chat with you in real-time? Live Messenger is my communication tool of choice. I've done IRC before but don't currently have a chat client installed. Just as a platform to ask trivial questions. Of course, it's okay if you don't want to. BlazerKnight (talk) 04:44, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Hm, no I don't really have an IM client readily available. I don't mind if you ask "trivial" questions here. If you like, you can create an adoption subpage and then just make WP:SMS edits to let me know when you update it. –xeno^talk 20:32, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh well. Embarrassing novice question ahead! There is usually a table of contents after the lead in an article. I can see no code for such a table, so is it automatically generated by putting headers in an article? And if so, why do some articles not have a table of contents? Is there a minimum number of headings an article has to have first? BlazerKnight (talk) 00:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It does get automatically generated after there are four or more headers. You can also force a table of contents by typing __TOC__, you can also use {{TOC right}} to align it to the right. And there is {{TOClimit}} to limit the number of sublevels shown in the TOC. –xeno^talk 00:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Aha, my guess was right. Also explains why I couldn't find it - was searching futilely for WP:Contents and Template:Contents. Another question: what is the difference between substitution and transclusion? BlazerKnight (talk) 01:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Substitution takes the code of the template and "pastes" it onto the page, whereas transclusion simply allows the template to include itself without messing up the page with its raw code. Click here: Special:Mypage/sandbox and try transcluding something (i.e. {{User:Xenocidic/Stormy}} and then substing it ( {{subst:User:Xenocidic/Stormy}} ) to see the different results in action. You can muck about in your sandbox as much as you want. –xeno^talk 01:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I tried it in the public sandbox. Anyway, I see what the difference is now, but what practical applications would substitution have? Also, regarding the userbox itself, do you like the weather condition, purple prose and/or laughing at purple prose, a la the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest? :P BlazerKnight (talk) 02:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

There's many reasons why one would want to subst. Some templates don't work when transcluded. For example, some welcome templates auto-include your signature. This won't work in transclusion, it must be subst'ed. Also, if you subst something you know it won't change later. As for the userbox, it's mostly the actual weather condition. Though, I did enjoy Throw Momma from the Train which touches on the subject of horrid fiction =). –xeno^talk 02:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

23 July to 27 July

Hello, just a heads up on what I'm up to. I am having a massive headache attempting to fix Ragnarok Online. I have just posted major revamps and unsourced additions which smell of OR; I know that's terrible but hear me out. The regional licensors thing is spread over a dozen sites in many different languages - going to be tough to cite. I'm getting a lot of info from the authoritative (some iRO staff contribute to it) iRO Wiki[1] which happens to be uncitable. And the private server thing has little to no reporting on it but is a major issue. Right now I'm too tired to go look for sources... hopefully someone will help me out... Is there such a thing as content that inherently doesn't need references? Or content that the game itself proves? I can't think for the life of me what to cite for the gameplay synopses. Sorry if I sound a bit rambly, must be the sleep debt speaking. Need your guidance on this. BlazerKnight (talk) 13:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Stuff that is patently obvious doesn't need cited. Same for gameplay elements (but if someone raises it as an issue, you could use {{cite game}}). You could always tag statements you can't source right at the moment with {{fact}} to remind yourself or try and have someone else find a source fo you. –xeno^talk 14:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Good ideas... Another thing, what is Wikipedia policy on the naming and creating of articles on sprawling, multimedia franchises? Disgaea (series), Haruhi Suzumiya and Soul Eater (manga) are all articles on the franchise, have manga, anime and game adaptations, and are named differently... For something like Ragnarok, which has manga, anime and game adaptations, when is a franchise article warranted? BlazerKnight (talk) 14:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response. I would suggest you try building such an article in your userspace, and then moving it into the mainspace to see how it fares. –xeno^talk 20:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I don't think I'm experienced enough to create a new article, besides, the game's article needs the attention first. But I want to know about the criteria for a franchise page to exist, and the naming conventions for them. The examples I provided above, plus some more I have found in the meantime, e.g. Kamen Rider Series and Law & Order (franchise), are all articles about a media franchise, but have different qualifiers in their parentheses or none at all. Why? BlazerKnight (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

There's no hard-and-fast guideline. You have to remember that when naming articles you're competing not only with other in-family titles, but also the rest of the encyclopedia as well (WP:Disambiguation). Disgaea (series) could probably be moved to Disgaea since the disambiguation page was vacated. "Kamen Rider Series" is either inappropriately capitalized or is the proper English name? Franchise usually seems to work well if platforms are crossed. –xeno^talk 06:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, sounds like this should have a guideline or section in the MoS. Anyway, the other question still stands... what is the criteria for the creation of a media franchise page? They often serve as a list of media adaptations as well as covering adaptations that are too small to warrant their own article, e.g. a mobile phone game. Does the franchise have to reach a certain threshold? BlazerKnight (talk) 14:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

There's not really a criteria for the creation of the franchise page. As I mentioned, you should create a user subpage called User:BlazerKnight/Ragnarok (franchise) and just work slowly at building a useful mainspace page. Then move it into the mainspace and see how it fares. If other editors think there is not enough scope they may suggest merging, but even then it won't be work lost as the changes will be upmerged. –xeno^talk 14:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Quick question about video game publishing info. Are regional operators of an MMO called publishers, licensors or something else? And can the regional licensor's site be used as a reference, or should I be looking for third-party news of the game release? Thanks. BlazerKnight (talk) 23:31, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... Not quite sure. I would say publisher and/or developer? You might want to ask at WT:VG. You can use stuff "straight from the horse's mouth", as it were - but see WP:SELFPUB. The best thing to do, if it looks like there's no one else really tending to the article, is just be bold! Use common sense and people will amend any mistakes they see. –xeno^talk 02:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Righto, will post messages here from this point forth. Yeah, I've been a bit paralyzed by policy and MoS, seeing that I'm a bit OCD about wanting to format all articles perfectly... Like the usage of flag icons. I looked up several different pages and associated talk pages trying to figure out what was considered appropriate use, and I still haven't figured it out fully. Should they be used in VG infoboxes at all? BlazerKnight (talk) 03:36, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

No, they shouldn't be used. See Wikipedia:VG/DATE / WP:MOSFLAG. That reminds me, I'm supposed to fix some PS3 pages with flags on 'em. –xeno^talk 03:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, I went ahead and fixed some infoboxes. Per your suggestion to move Disgaea (series) to Disgaea, I tried to move it but the latter article exists as a redirect. Should I simply swap the content of the two pages (and associated talk pages)? BlazerKnight (talk) 05:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Hm, no. In a case like that, the target redirect page is holding up the move and has a substantial edit history. So what I did was moved it to "Disagea (disambiguation)" (since it was previous a disambiguation page) and then moved Disagea (series) to Disagea. Sometimes you can do these moves on your own, other times you will need administrators to clear the redirects. –xeno^talk 12:43, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I see... Musical chairs comes to mind. Thanks for the help (and it is fortunate you did not make those typoes while moving the pages :P). Anyway, while looking for precedent on how to format the MMO publisher info, I came across this table. Poor application? Should I go with something like Cabal Online's infobox instead? BlazerKnight (talk) 14:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Well... are there many different release dates? Many languages? The infobox looks cleaner but the table conveys more information. –xeno^talk 16:59, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there are many different release dates and languages. I'll probably update the infobox and add a table too. Now, to get past my attachment to WYSIWYG interfaces and figure out how the table template works... Maybe tomorrow. Thanks again for answering my endless questions! It's amazing how much you manage to get done on Wikipedia. BlazerKnight (talk) 17:19, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

27 July to 7 October

Hm, now that I think of it, is there a way to edit Wikipedia with a WYSIWYG interface? I'm currently using Firefox and the wikEd gadget to edit. I often have a bajillion tabs open; references, help pages and articles similar to the one I'm editing to see what conventions are in place. In this regard Firefox works well, but for editing, not so much. I'm thinking of a WordPress-like editing window, which also provides a normal code editing mode. Does such a tool exist, in-browser or out? Thanks. BlazerKnight (talk) 23:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Not quite sure, to be honest. You might try asking at Wikipedia:Help desk. –xeno^talk 01:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Alas, it seems that it does not exist yet. On a separate note, someone has turned List of Disgaea characters into a redirect to Disgaea#Recurring characters, removing a ton of information in the process. I started a discussion here. What do you think? Am I fighting for a lost cause? BlazerKnight (talk) 01:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... The oldid version of the article is waaay too long. What I would suggest, if you feel strongly about it, is trimming the list of characters greatly, trying to source it, and then boldly unredirecting it with your new version. –xeno^talk 02:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Resolved the discussion. I guess it's better to merge small bits into the relevant articles. Rather daunting though, to go through the old list looking for factlets that are not already present somewhere else. Needles in a haystack. Also, per your suggestion I have left some questions at WPVG talk. BlazerKnight (talk) 01:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

If there's one thing I've found, it's that you can rarely have the level of detail that would be considered acceptable to a hard-core fan of the topic. WT:VG is an excellent place to get opinions on stuff like that. –xeno^talk 14:56, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Heya, just wondering if being referred to in Penny Arcade, or by the writers in news posts for example, is worth mentioning in an article. They do have a large impact on the NA gaming community. So would their opinions be relevant in the reception or criticism sections of a game? BlazerKnight (talk) 01:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I've seen them in reception sections. I mean Yahtzee gets in there more often than not. Penny Arcade is fairly well-respected for its integrity (not advertising for games it considers crap, etc.). –xeno^talk 02:05, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey Xeno, how are you? Question: I want to use {{subst:today}} in the cite web template for the accessdate parameter. Having tested it in sandbox, it works only when the cite web is not wrapped in a <ref> tag. Any ideas? See below for what I mean.

{{cite web |title=Lorem Ipsum |url=http://www.loremipsum.com/ |date={{date|9 September 2009}} |work=Test edit |publisher=Lorem Ipsum Inc |accessdate={{subst:today}}}}

gives the correct

"Lorem Ipsum". Test edit. Lorem Ipsum Inc. 9 September 2009. Retrieved 22 September 2009.

On the other hand,

<ref>{{cite web |title=Lorem Ipsum |url=http://www.loremipsum.com/ |date={{date|9 September 2009}} |work=Test edit |publisher=Lorem Ipsum Inc |accessdate={{subst:today}}}}</ref>

instead gives: Looks like the "ref" is not allowing the template to expand via subst... Not sure if that's by design. Not sure how to work around it, maybe ask at WP:VPT. –xeno^talk 02:04, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, left a message at VPT. By the way, what were you attempting in the cite web today template you created? BlazerKnight (talk) 22:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I was just trying to trick the ref tags into not fouling up a subst of "today" but alas, they were too persistent for me =] –xeno^talk 02:36, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Erm, the latest reply to my post on VPT suggests a workaround, but I don't fully understand how that works. Is he asking me to use the old ref template that doesn't use cite.php? Because the whole point of this is to make my job easier by using the new ref tags, cite web and today templates. I'm kinda embarrassed to say that there, though... BlazerKnight (talk) 23:47, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Here is what you have to do with that -

{{subst:#tag:ref|{{cite web|url=http://example.com|title=Something|accessdate={{subst:today}}}}}}

Just tested it and it works well [2]. –xeno^talk 12:41, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Testing...

Hmm. Doesn't seem to work? It's calling the earlier ref above. Maybe I'll just manually type the current date in the date template. BlazerKnight (talk) 22:24, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Wait, removing the earlier reflist template fixes this. I am somewhat confused. BlazerKnight (talk) 22:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

It's probably getting confused. Try it in a sandbox or live edit and you'll see it works well. –xeno^talk 17:30, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I added a section to an article, but someone removed it saying that it's not notable/significant to the article as a whole, despite it being sourced. If I'm not wrong, WP:Notability is about whether topics deserve their own articles, and WP:Verifiability states that the threshold for inclusion is verifiability as opposed to "truth"; is there a policy regarding the inclusion of subtopics with reliable sources available? BlazerKnight (talk) 00:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

You are correct in that notability primarily determines whether we should have an article, and not the content therein. However there are guidelines such as WP:UNDUE, and the like, that may come into play. Best thing to do in a content dispute like that would be ask on the talk page and if still no joy, a relevant wikiproject. –xeno^talk 02:48, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks like another editor has restored my section. But now I am curious - WP:Undue states that minority views are to be given little to no coverage in the main article, but be fleshed out in their own. Doesn't that condone POV forks? For example, in Left 4 Dead 2, there was an edit war some time ago over a section about the boycott movement; some people said it was inconsequential to the game's sales and thus should be removed. It eventually was resolved by adding news about a Pro-L4D2 movement. What if someone had created an article about the boycott? BlazerKnight (talk) 03:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't know much about the boycott but there was a similar dispute over the Resident Evil 5 controversy as to how much information to include or whether to include it at all. –xeno^talk 03:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

What? Looks like part of your message got eaten. BlazerKnight (talk) 03:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

No, it was just a lazy non-answer =) As to your question about POV-forks... yes, I suppose you could look at it that way. It doesn't really apply to this case tho, I doubt an article on "Autralian boycott of L4D2" would subsist =). –xeno^talk 14:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Ack... I have been trying my hand at recent changes patrolling, and have been doing well, with the occasional hiccup. Like this uber d'oh moment... Help? BlazerKnight (talk) 09:15, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Resolved

 – Another admin deleted it. BlazerKnight (talk) 21:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

7 October to present

One other thing, how do I stop Twinkle/Friendly from automatically watching pages I edit? BlazerKnight (talk) 10:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Twinkle/doc#Configuration / Wikipedia:FRIENDLY#Configuration, there are configuration options you can set in your (skin).js file. –xeno^talk 23:28, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I seem to have disabled parts of Twinkle. What did I do wrong? User:BlazerKnight/vector.js BlazerKnight (talk) 23:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

What are you missing? I activate Twinkle and Friendly by calling the individual modules, you could do that as well and take only the ones you want/need. –xeno^talk 00:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I activated them as gadgets in user prefs, so I followed what the page said and pasted only the settings I wanted to alter (watching edited pages). But I think I've disabled Twinkle's reversion and speedy abilities. BlazerKnight (talk) 00:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well you can just blank the vector.js and start over. I made some changes, try it now. You can also start importing the modules one by one. –xeno^talk 02:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I reverted to your first edit, that seems to have fixed it. BlazerKnight (talk) 13:52, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Heya, maybe you could take some time to look over my recent contribs? How's my RCP spree? I've made some mistakes and some of my warnings, CSDs and AIVs have been off the mark, but I think I'm doing well. Whadya think? BlazerKnight (talk) 13:52, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

A good measure of how well you are doing in recent changes patrol is how many folks show up at your talk page to complain =) I see you're batting pretty well. As you found out it's never a good idea to shoot first and ask questions later even if there's a huge drop in kb's. Have you tried WP:POPUPS ? It's a great way to preview an edit before you decide to roll it back. I've just reviewed about the last 15-20 edits you reverted as vandalism and they're spot on. As such, I've enabled rollback on your account. –xeno^talk 14:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Yep, have been using popups ever since I found the gadgets tab in user prefs. Now I can't conceive of browsing Wikipedia without it. Ironically I started patrolling after a failed request for rollback where an admin told me to get some more experience fighting vandalism. I realize now that Twinkle is much more flexible in edit summaries (AGF, rv and rvv) and has more functions. Thanks anyway! BlazerKnight (talk) 00:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

No problem. There are some userscripts you can look into to increase the functionality of rollback. I am partial to

importScript('User:Mr.Z-man/rollbackSummary.js'); // allows tweaking of rollback edit summary

as it allows you to look at all of an editors' contributions and roll them back quickly with the same edit summary. –xeno^talk 02:41, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try that. (PS. you seem to have undone my chronologizing of your awards? Was that intentional?) BlazerKnight (talk) 22:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

oops! nope, mistake... thanks again for the assist =) –xeno^talk 22:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Heh, you said "A good measure of how well you are doing in recent changes patrol is how many folks show up at your talk page to complain", how about having my user page vandalized? BlazerKnight (talk) 06:24, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Means you're doing something right! =) –xeno^talk 19:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I recently had an idea for a user notification template. Occasionally I find a user attempting to inline an externally hosted or even locally hosted image (like this) I've been leaving them talk page messages, but I was thinking that a user notification template would be convenient. Something along the lines of:

"I noticed you've been having some trouble adding an image to Article X, you have to first upload the image to Wikipedia's servers. You cannot add externally hosted/locally hosted images to articles. Read WP:UPI for help on uploading images, and WP:IUP for what images are acceptable for use on Wikipedia."

The template allows for the parameters "article=" (article in question) and "hosted=" to differentiate between whether the user attempted to add an externally or locally hosted image. What do you think, good idea? And if it is, could you help with coding the template? BlazerKnight (talk) 00:54, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd model it off something like Template:Uw-italicize. Keep it simple and explain both types of image fail in the one template to avoid having to use the "hosted" param. (Otherwise it wouldn't be easily integrated into Twinkle). If you want to make it an official template I think you float the idea at WT:UW. –xeno^talk 19:46, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

It is done! Also posted here.

Hello. In case you didn't know, you cannot add externally or locally hosted images to Wikipedia pages, as you did to User:BlazerKnight. You can only add images that have been uploaded to Wikipedia's servers. See how to upload images, but make sure you have read and understood our image use policy before uploading any images. Thank you. BlazerKnight (talk) 00:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

It looks great, by the way. I'm sure eventually someone will agree and add it to the uw-matrix =) –xeno^talk 21:45, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I think I have met my first edit warrior, Frank.Ribbons (talk · contribs) See this page history. What action should I take? I don't want to break the 3RR. BlazerKnight (talk) 09:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

This, being unsourced, is a BLP violation and would probably qualify you for a 3RR exemption and the editor for a block. I'll go warn him now. –xeno^talk 17:57, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I have been participating a bit in deletion discussions, and am slightly confused, hopefully you can help to clarify some stuff for me. If a new article does not assert notability but a simple Google search shows sources that does make the subject sound notable, but everyone is too lazy to actually add the citations, is a speedy A7 appropriate or not? I'm wondering, which is correct: should the article in its current state be deleted and left to be resubmitted later, or should the article be left alone until someone is unlazy enough to reference it? (I suspect that I've just stumbled upon the deletionist/inclusionist issue that seems to divide us editors so) BlazerKnight (talk) 05:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I think xeno's on a short wikibreak right now, so I'll chip in my two pence. I would say that, if the subject sounds notable but the article is awful, leave it alone for a certain length of time with an Underconstruction tag on it. If nothing major has happened within, ohh, say a week, then remove it and tag it for speedy deletion or AfD. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 17:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the under construction tag to be used by people who are actively editing the article? However, I do get your point, a week or so sounds like a reasonable timeframe (PROD works perfectly for this). Xeno, still would like your thoughts on that, and also here's another bunch of questions/issues:

• It looks like Jpzank (talk · contribs) is a journalist who wrote an article about Henry Lower for a website, News Sentinel, and now he is trying to write a biography article about the guy. See Talk:Henry Lower for more info.
• I have just written my first article (stub), Fall Out Toy Works, please review if you have some time.
• I uploaded a website's logo, and it was used in the website's article. Then someone decided to upload a slightly different version of the logo (in fact it is now harder to see against a white background), and replaced the image in the article. Then my upload got deleted as orphaned fair-use image, all before I could protest. I feel slightly annoyed that they did not upload it as a new version of my file. What should I do, if anything?

Thanks again for putting up with me, Xeno. BlazerKnight (talk) 23:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I had assumed that it was still under construction, but obviously not. My suggestions for the new queries are that you try to find some citations for the plot of the article you created (mostly for part where it's inspired by something) and that you re-upload your picture and bring it up on WPVG. I do think that, since it is hard to see on white, maybe an exception to the "most up-to-date logo" rule that appears to exist could be made. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 23:56, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Re Thejadefalcon: Wait, I'm confused. What I meant about the under construction tag: Say I come across a new article in poor shape. I'm not going to tag it with under construction because I'm not going to contribute to it, and I don't know if the article author will continue to work on it. I can, however, prod it for failing any number of inclusion criteria, and if the author is around they will likely object to the prod and/or improve the article. And yeah, I have a good source for that "inspired by" claim, I just need to get round to typing up the citation. BlazerKnight (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd look at the page and possibly tag it with a construction tag depending on what it was (mainly because I know the coding for that one :P). --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 00:26, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you're slightly misled; you tag articles that you are actively editing with Template:Under construction, but otherwise tag it for maintenance (the wonderful Friendly gadget does this with a Twinkle-like interface, among other features). BlazerKnight (talk) 00:30, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay. (files away for future reference) --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 00:32, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's probably best to tag it with a maintenance template ( {{notability}}, {{refimprove}}, etc.) rather than tag it for A7 if you found out its arguably notable. If you don't have time to add the refs / assertion of importance yourself, perhaps just copy and paste the URLs to the talk page under a heading "Possible sources" or something. Btw, I will be less-than-active until around the 9th. –xeno^talk 17:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Re: Lack of activity: Yeah, I'm getting that... --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 17:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I started a peer review for an article I rewrote some time ago. Think it could become a GA or FA? Also, how's my first new article, Fall Out Toy Works? And one more thing: It looks like Jpzank (talk · contribs) is a journalist who wrote an article about Henry Lower for a website, News Sentinel, and now he is trying to write a rather unencyclopedic biography article about the guy. I have a hunch it violates several policies, too. See Talk:Henry Lower for more info. BlazerKnight (talk) 00:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I've never professed to be a good article writer (no pun intented). In fact, the most article work I ever did was at 1 vs 100 (Xbox 360) and I was planning to bring it to GAN but I never ended up doing it. I guess I'm just really lazy, is all. You might ping User:David Fuchs who is one of our more prolific VG FA writers. As for the Henry Lower, if you don't think it meets the WP:BIO requirements, you should nominate it for AFD. –xeno^talk 00:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)