Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Peer review/Zeno Clash

Zeno Clash

I just went through it and revamped/expanded quite a bit, from 8k this morning to 18k. Added a whole bunch of sources too. This is my first extensive article rewrite, and would like input from fellow WPVG members. BlazerKnight (talk) 08:57, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can see, this is very good. Raise to B class anyone? If anybody thinks I'm being too generous, say so, and I'll take another look at it when I'm more awake and not in agony, but I think this is in far better condition than it was and definitely not Start-class anymore. BlazerKnight, would you like me to try and find the PC Gamer UK review? I think they gave it a delicious beating. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 10:13, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. The PC Gamer UK review would be excellent. BlazerKnight (talk) 10:28, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I'll have a look for it, but I may not get around to it today. I was planning on a Mass Effect marathon. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 10:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Added an assessment to the article's Talk page. Right now it's C-Class, but very close to B. It's also got a lot of potential for GA. --Teancum (talk) 13:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Done most of those for you. --Thejadefalcon^{Sing your song}_{The bird's seeds} 13:22, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments by David Fuchs

As requested. Keep in mind that I'm judging the article by FA standard, so if I come off as unnecessarily harsh or blunt, sorry. I just figure it's best to aim for FA quality, then you won't have to worry about difficulties at WP:GAN and always can go for the shiny star :)

• Images
  • Images are now required to have alt text for disabled users with screen readers. Read WP:ALT for a primer.
    • Ha, I anticipated this! *cough* They do have alt text, hopefully those are sufficient.
  • Sweet, free images! w00t! The non-free one, File:Zeno Clash.jpg, could use a more thorough non-free rationale, however. File:Halo 3 ODST Box Art.png isn't bad, although it should explain why there are no free alternatives (such as the developers/publishers haven't released any similar images into public domain.)
• Lead
  • I'm not a fan of how the lead is currently structured. Generally video game articles start by explaining what the game is, who developed/published it, release dates and details, and then the basic overview of the plot, if important. As it stands, "It uses Valve Corporation's Source engine." is simply not important enough to be the second sentence of the lead.
  • Per WP:LEADCITE, I think the quotes and specific figures could be removed, along with the specific figures. Basically, for such a short article, you only need two paragraphs for the lead, and summarizing its reception and awards is the way to go here.
  • Along those lines, more about the actual development of the game would be good to add to the lead, and removing details about release would also be a sound plan.
• Gameplay
  • As part of a general problem of video game articles, it presumes too much familiarity with A) video games and B) the video game in question. First off, you should start by restating what kind of game it is with greater elaboration. Secondly, there are a lot of terms not explained until the plot, so either put to the plot before the gameplay, or work in the relevant details.
  • What is the goal of the game? How does the game share aspects with other genres? These things are what we need to know!
• Plot
  • "Regardless, when he encounters them a fight ensues" Huh? You've spent the last couple of sentences saying how they still consider him one of them, and he respects them. Why would they fight?
    • It's his brothers and sisters who still consider him one of them. Plus, the Corwids are insane, and often fight each other for random reasons. Maybe it should be rephrased for clarity.
  • I think the plot could be slimmed down a bit; things like the Hunter are really just game play padding and don't affect the main story, and can be safely cut, for instance.
• Development
  • "they have been developing game mods since the 1990s" not everyone knows what a mod is.
    • Is linking Mod (computer gaming) sufficient or should I add a rudimentary definition?
  • "While Zeno Clash is ACE Team's first original game" tense issues. Since the game's released, historical details should be phrased as past tense.
  • "Zeno Clash was initially conceived as a total conversion modification using the Source engine. After showing a demo version to Valve, " What the Source engine is, and that Valve is Source's developer, needs to be mentioned. Remember, the lead summarizes what is in the article body.
  • "Regarding the unique and widely praised art style" that sounds like fluff and NPOV, especially since we haven't gotten to any support for the art accolades.
  • I think the post-release section can just be renamed "Release", as per video game and also film articles it covers such developments anyhow.
• Reception
  • This is the section that I think could use the most work. First off, it should have more critical opinions than just four reviews. Since many listed at Metacritic are magazines, I suggest going through the video games reference library and seeing if any users have the print copies of these reviews.
  • Depending on how much reception there is, such sections in FA video game articles take one of two forms: the first, dividing the section into positive and negative reviews, and commenting on aspects in each, or if there's more reviews to go with, breaking the game down into sections and discussing each part separately. Example of the first method: Myst III: Exile. Example of the second method: Halo Wars.
• General
  • As said earlier, a greater focus on accessibility is needed. Make the plot intro in the lead more clear for those who have never played the game. Get someone who hasn't played the game (and hopefully isn't a video game nerd) to read the article and show you where they get confused.
  • Referencing is an issue. For example the entire second paragraph of gameplay is sourced to [1], but nowhere in the citation does it provide support for at least this part of the paragraph: "The story is revealed through character dialogue and cutscenes, and is completely linear." See WP:V and WP:OR so you know when and what to cite, and how to cite clearly.
  • A comment on references: WP:WIAFA requires "high quality" reliable sources; in other words the best sources available. I can tell you right know which sources would fall under scrutiny: http://www.zillionmonkey.com, http://www.playhard.ru/, http://www.torrentfreak.com/, and http://www.kotaku.com/. Kotaku can generally be resolved by making sure the author meets WP:SPS. See WP:VG/S for more tips and a partial listing of "good" sites.
    • The ZillionMonkey and PlayHard sources are interviews with the developers, making them a sort of primary source, can they still be used? Also, about the Kotaku thing, are you saying some of the authors are considered experts while others are not? Have Wikipedians already determined which meet WP:SPS, or do I have to figure it out myself?

Hope these comments are helpful. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 01:32, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Replied to some of the points. Don't have time now, so I will improve the article at a later date. Thanks again for such a thorough review. BlazerKnight (talk) 08:31, 14 November 2009 (UTC)