Template talk:Navbox with collapsible groups/Archive 1

Archive 1

Image

I'm having some trouble adding the image to the side. When I do this the header doesn't have a colspan attribute and doesn't extend to the width of the template.—Noetic Sage 19:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right. Thanks for letting me know. I have fixed the issue. It looks fine in your sandbox, now.↔NMajdan•talk 20:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

VDE links

The V D E links are now smack in the middle of the title. I couldn't fix it, but I do know you can't mix float and absolute. — Edokter • Talk • 13:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Crap, thought I had it. Thanks for letting me know. It worked perfectly in Firefox but I didn't even think of checking IE. Oh well.↔NMajdan•talk 14:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Just keep trying :) If navbox can do it, so can you. — Edokter • Talk • 16:26, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, how's this? — Edokter • Talk • 17:11, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Why on some articles the default state is show and on others, its hide? I can live with the collapsible header, but the default state should be show.↔NMajdan•talk 17:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind. Got it. I removed the autocollapse because, unlike most templates, you actually don't see any more articles until you expand on of the groups. Also, I noticed the nowraplinks class you added. I am not familiar with this. I'm assuming this means that I do not need all those {{nowrap}} templates anymore? If so, great!↔NMajdan•talk 17:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Correct, link should no longer break into two lines. I didn't know you wanted it not to autocollapse - I just copied most from {{navbox}}. Also, nice find on wrapping the title in a font tag; I would have never thought of that. — Edokter • Talk • 18:14, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Additional features

I think it would be nice to have a parameter that automatically expands all of the groups. For example, on the main page for each template (ie University of Michigan for {{University of Michigan}}), I would like to be able to see all of the links in the template. Perhaps a better way to do this is automatically expand all groups unless a parameter is specified to only expand one.

Another suggestion, going on the trend of navbox consolidation, is to merge this completely with {{Navbox}}. Although a lot of extra coding would be required, it would be convenient for editors to simply add a parameter to switch between groups in rows and groups that are collapsible. --scottalter 06:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The whole point of this template is to hide all but the most relevant/similar articles in a large navigation box. If you wanted all to be visible, then the normal Navbox template should be used. As far as consolidating with navbox, that is something you would need to bring up with the editors over there. It would be a good idea, but that template is so complex already.↔NMajdan•talk 12:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, I misread your comment. So, on the main article for the navigation box, in this case, University of Michigan for the {{University of Michigan}} template, you want all expanded. I still dislike the default action being to show all of them but I'll try to find the time to add an all parameter that will show all.↔NMajdan•talk 12:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Collapsed. Whole thing.

Is there a way to set the table to default to completely collapsed? Or some way the state can be controlled on the individual pages it's placed on? It's obviously *possible* to collapse the whole thing down to just the title bar, as this can be done manually by clicking on "hide". That's the state I want it to start in.

I ask because someone just implemented this code on Template:Celtic mythology topics. Even with the sub-sections collapsed, it's a bear. It's visually overwhelming on some of the articles it's on. The previous version was even more overwhelming, but at least it could be collapsed down completely. Help? - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 03:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Curently, no. The template needs overall tweaking, and probably integrating with {{navbox}} in some form. It's still a work in progress. — Edokter • Talk • 09:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

show/hide links

On templates with dark title background colors, it is hard to see the show/hide links... any way to change this? see {{University of Michigan}} ~ Paul^C/_T+ 05:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Bodystyle

On {{Navbox}}, bodystyle defaults to white, on this one it defaults to what looks like f7f7f7. Can a "bodystyle" parameter be added so I can make it white on {{Dasyuromorphia}}? --Tombstone (talk) 23:01, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Expand more than one section

Is there any way that, using the "state" parameter, more than one section can be set to expand? For example, on {{Time Persons of the Year}}, Eisenhower appears in two sections (1927-1950 [1944] & 1951-1975 [1959]), so on his article, the template should default to showing 2 groups. Is this possible? If so, please provide the code. If not, can the template be updated? Rgrds. --Tombstone (talk) 08:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Normally, the selected parameter can be used to uncollapse one group. To uncollapse more groups, the {{Time Persons of the Year}} template must be modified to accept state parameters for each group; ie. like this: | state1 = {{{state1|collapsed}}} for group 1, etc. Then you can edit the article and add |state1 = uncollapsed to the template for the groups you want to uncollapse. — Edokter • Talk • 21:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I've already done it. Is this what your were looking for? — Edokter • Talk • 21:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

It's exactly what I was looking for. My, aren't navboxes wonderful little inventions? Rgrds. --Tombstone (talk) 06:09, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Lists in groups

Can somebody help with the Template:Citroën timeline. Do not understand how to make it work (like it does in ru-wiki for example ru:Шаблон:Автомобили Citroën) --Rockfan^by 15:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

The easy fix be to use is <span> and </span> around the tables chandler · 15:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Groups/Lists

I use the template to sort names with a group for every letter of the alphabet ... so could someone please expand the number of groups to 26 ? Many thanks

~~ Phoe _talk ~~ 08:16, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

That would pose serious pre-expand template limit problems on some articles, which is why the number of groups is kept to only 10. Luckily, the boxes are nestable, so you can do something like this to fix the problem:

Hopefully that does all you need. Let me know if you have any questions. --CapitalR (talk) 11:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to be narrow-minded, but it seems it's currently at eleven (expanded with this edit [1]). I had thought such a change rather a minor matter, however if this requires a sweeping blow, I'm happy to try another way. Although I'have nested the template already, I will experiment to integrate your suggestion. Thanks for your answer and your efforts.

~~ Phoe _talk ~~ 11:48, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, having 11 is actually quite convenient as it makes it possible to have 10 groups/lists in each nested set (with the 11th being the next Navbox in the nesting chain). Let me know if you need any help with your Navboxes and I'll be happy to have a look. --CapitalR (talk) 12:30, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I just added this as an example on the doc page as it likely will be a common request. --CapitalR (talk) 12:36, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I have it inserted (on User:Phoe/contributions) and have it modified a little bit for my purposes - it works fine. Best wishes

~~ Phoe _talk ~~ 13:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Width of subgroups

Hello. Could the width of the groups be reduced slighty, please (but still keep them centered)? When I see this template in use, it's difficult to tell the main titlebar from the group titlebars, especially when one of the groups is already shown. Otherwise, it's a neat template. 212.84.120.221 (talk) 03:30, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

"section" as alternative to "group"

Hello again. I've noticed the name "Navbox with collapsible sections" is redirected to this temnplate. Could, therefore, the label "section" (as in "section1", "section2", etc) be made an alternative to "group" ("group1", "group2", etc) please? A fair number of -- maybe many -- instances of this template include groups within groups etc, so the means to label its own groups as sections might reduce the chances of confusion. Thank you. 212.84.120.221 (talk) 09:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikia navbox collapsed groups

Hey,

Over at E-Wrestling Encyclopedia and I am making making a navbox collapsed template and it shows the groups that are collapsed. Did I do something wrong? Sundogs ^{Wikia UserPage | Roller Derby Wiki} 00:03, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

edit: I also like to have a section to show up (code is #ifexist) and will this make the previous post behaving badly? Sundogs ^{Wikia UserPage | Roller Derby Wiki} 00:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Group without "show"

In Template:Cultural Properties of Japan, I would like to get rid of "[show]" in the last line as there is nothing to expand. If I use, "state=off" the center alignment is broken (apparently because the row is wider without the "[show]"). How do I properly get rid of the "[show]"? bamse (talk) 22:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It's been fixed. bamse (talk) 13:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Why should selected be 1st/unnamed param?

This text is in Group/list parameters:
> Usually this parameter [selected] should be set to {{{1|}}}.
That doesn't make sense. Template parameters should be designed in whatever way makes using the template convenient, and that usually means that unnamed parameters are used for information specific to that template. Generic parameters like selected should be named. —Codrdan (talk) 20:41, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Unclear

I am struggling to understand the abbr and selected parameters. Please can someone who understands them rewrite that part of the documentation for bears like me of very little brain? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 08:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

How about this:

---

abbr_n

This is the abbreviation of groupn. It is used by the selected parameter to indicate which group will be visible (uncollapsed) when the table first appears. See the selected section below for details. abbrn is optional but recommended; only groups with abbreviations can be selected to be visible by default.

selected

selected determines which group will be visible (uncollapsed) when the table is first displayed. If its value is the abbreviation of a group (abbrn), then listn will be visible by default, with all other lists collapsed. If selected is left blank, or if it does not match any abbrn, then all groups are collapsed. Any template that transcludes this template must pass selected from the article to this one, for instance with a parameter of the same name:

{{Navbox with collapsible groups

|selected = {{{selected|}}}

...

---

—Codrdan (talk) 12:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I regret I am still struggling to understand this. I'm not usually thick on programming matters, but this one seems to be in my blind-spot. I don't understand yet how the template "knows" which group is visible. May I refer you to {{Abuse cases}} where it would be optimal to open a subgroup when an article in that subgroup is being read. I am pretty sure that is what the combination of Selected and Abbr do, but I don't see how it is done. Feel free to use short words and sentences, I am a natural blond! Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Take a look at Template:Abuse cases. You use selected when calling your template in the article to tell Navbox with collapsible groups which group to display. —Codrdan (talk) 14:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I see what you have done, and I am grateful for it. Let me see if I understand it by saying what I believe happens, because I am still not 100% sure.

I am using Roman Catholic sex abuse cases by country as my example. I see that the parameter selected appears once and is set to {{{selected|}}} in the template. At the foot of the article the navbox is entirely collapsed. Since the words in the abbrev are Child sexual Roman Catholic and the article title does not include all of those words I assume it to be correct that the group is not expanded.

In other words I am expecting the words in abbrev to be matched to the article title (but not necessarily the complete title) and thus the group uncollapsed. Do I have that right?

I'm sorry to keep asking. I am simply struggling to see how it works. At present I have not found an article where the Abuse cases template is anything except fully collapsed. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:47, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Is the answer staring me in the face? I have to SPECIFY the selected parameter when I place the template! Its that simple, isn;t it? There is no automatic stuff at all, is there? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

No, it's not automatic. Whoever uses your navbox can specify the group they want to be visible, but only from the ones that have abbreviations. —Codrdan (talk) 16:47, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Classes

Resolved

Please can somebody with the requisite skills mirror the code from {{Navbox}}, for |bodyclass=, and |titleclass=? Here's the documentation. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Should be all done now. --CapitalR (talk) 22:48, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

That's great; thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Show all?

Hello. How do you set this template to show all its groups, not just one via "selected"? Thanks. 212.84.121.75 (talk) 06:21, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Right now you need to add "|state = uncollapsed" to the template, and then add "|state1 = uncollapsed", "|state2 = uncollapsed", and so on for each group. This will force each one to be uncollapsed. There's currently no way to use one parameter to force them all to be uncollapsed. --CapitalR (talk) 18:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! 212.84.121.75 (talk) 22:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

groups 10 and 11 seem wrong

Can someone check the {{{list1style|}}} elements of Groups 10 and 11 surely these should be {{{list10style|}}} and {{{list11style|}}}

Regards :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 18:21, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, smaal oversight. Should be fixed now. — Edokter • Talk • 21:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Request

{{edit protected}} The request is to replace the template's code with the version currently in the sandbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Navbox_with_collapsible_groups/sandbox&oldid=402683010). I will update the documentation page accordingly.

The amended code completes the "section" ("sect") approach to the template by adding the parameters sectionN, sectNtitlestyle, contentN, contentstyle and contentNstyle. They are all optional, i.e. transparent if not used.

213.246.83.86 (talk) 12:38, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand the benefits of this, but as no one has commented I have actioned the request. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:31, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Extend

Could this get extended past 11? 117Avenue (talk) 03:57, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Please extend this to 20, like Template:Navbox, by syncing with the sandbox. Thanks, 117Avenue (talk) 02:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:10, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Autocollapse?

This template claims that it is autocollapse by default, but it is not. This template uses navboxes to create the collapsible groups, and the wiki detects these as other navboxes on the page, and collapses the whole navbox on any page. Is there any way to rectify this? 117Avenue (talk) 04:09, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Since I don't think anything can be done about this on Wikipedia, I am removing reference to autocollapse on the documentation. 117Avenue (talk) 04:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Good call. It looks like autocollapse can't work with this template; the only way to make it start in the uncollapsed state is to set it to be uncollapsed manually. --CapitalR (talk) 06:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

How get footer to collapse in article by default?

Hi. In article Foley Square trial I have a footer navbox: Template:US1stAmendment. The default layout of that navobx is expanded (showing five sub groups .. each of those is collapsed) which is a bit large for my taste. My goal is to have it appear as a single line (just the topmost "1st amendment" line). I tried setting "state=collapsed" but that makes no change. Any suggestions? --Noleander (talk) 02:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Hi Noleander -- I just added a parameter 'state' to Template:US1stAmendment to control collapsability, and used it in Foley Square trial to get it to collapse. CapitalR (talk) 03:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Possible to expand more than one group?

For example, with Template:Sixth Amendment, Reynolds v. United States interpreted both the jury clause and confrontation clause. Savidan 06:31, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Support for left-aligned group labels

please update the template to use this version of the sandbox. this adds support for left-aligned group labels. in the current code, if you try to left-align the group labels, you get

the new code adds a |groupnavbar= parameter, which can be set to off to remove the left-padding on the group labels

this will allow for a simplification of Template:Portuguese overseas empire. thank you. Frietjes (talk) 18:46, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done. I added navbar1 - navbar20 parameters as well, ohterwise, one would not be able to override individual groups as it is with all other parameters. — Edokter (talk) — 19:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

thanks, but shouldn't the nesting be flipped? I would be more likely to set a default with the general one, then override it with the specific, just like we do with the other style parameters. Frietjes (talk) 19:25, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

You're right... that was my intention. Corrected. — Edokter (talk) — 20:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Javascript question

Please forgive me if this is a dumb question, so bear with me. When I connect with a dial-up connection, I frequently turn off javascript on Firefox to increase page-load time. When I do this, some functions of Wikipedia are disabled. One of those functions is the show/hide function. On navbox templates, all templates display uncollapsed and the "hide" function is not offered -- this makes all navboxes load in the expanded state and can completely overrun a small article. About a year ago I saw an editor removing many navboxes with an edit summary saying they were much to big for such small articles; I have come to the conclusion that maybe they did not have javascript enabled. Here is my question: Is it possible to have some code recognize that a user's javascript is disabled and, if so, in really tiny letters above the navbox appears the text "javascipt is required for the this template to render properly"? Actually, I guess my question is if there is a consensus add such code. I hope this isn't a dumb question, and I would appreciate feedback. Rgrds. (Dynamic IP, will change when I log off.) --64.85.214.177 (talk) 13:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 7 June 2014

In the media section, Movies, link to film Selma, a recent page. Thanks. I was one of the editors who made quite a few edits to the King template.

Randy Kryn (talk) 02:35, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 02:45, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 7 June 2014

On the Martin Luther King template, under "Media" "Films and Television", please add The Meeting. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn: Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the template {{Navbox with collapsible groups}}. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. This is probably Template talk:Martin Luther King. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:07, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok, it's left on the King template talk page. Now what? This seems like an easy and relevant addition to make. Why not just pop it in as it won't be a controversial addition. It's probably a thankless job, so, thanks! Randy Kryn 12:23 7 June 2014 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn: I've replied at Template talk:Martin Luther King#Addition to template of The Meeting. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:41, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 7 June 2014 add Eurasian Economic Union to Eurasian section

Add Eurasian Economic Union to Eurasia section. Whizz40 (talk) 13:47, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

There seems to be a bug which is leading here when editing templates, examples are Editing Template:International power, and Martin Luther King above.

There change to the international power template has been made.

Whizz40 (talk) 13:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it was this edit by Jackmcbarn (talk · contribs), which added v-t-e links pointing to this talk page (and its template) to all the transcluding pages. I've reverted it, but it will take thousands of WP:NULLEDITs to mend all the misleading links. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:04, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Sorry about that. I've fixed the problem that caused it. By the way, null edits won't be needed for this, since the problem doesn't affect any of the links tables. They'll all re-render without the bad navbars shortly on their own. Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:31, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 3 December 2014 (Spacing before the first navbox)

Someone (not me) noticed that the space between "External links" and the first navbox on any article page is way too tight. So they tried addingadded a blank line to increase the spacing. (It worked, though I always thought it should not work because extra white space is not supposed to count.Extra blank lines count, even though extra spaces do not.) It worked, so they left a comment asking us not to remove the (normally pointless and/or incorrect) extra blank line. I humored the request by expanding it into a full explanation of the problem, with possible solutions. Obviously it would be best to fix all affected pages with one edit at the highest level, rather than have random edits that correct or improve the formatting one page at a time, on thousands of article pages, depending on who notices it. Quoting the comments from the page "Desvenlafaxine":

< - - The extra blank line here is spacing. Please do not remove it.

(Compare and see. Without the extra space here, "External links" is jammed up against the Antidepressants navbox.)

Extra spacing in the mark-up SHOULD NOT be able to cause extra spacing in the document view (it is just white space).

But it DOES add space, so let's leave it in for now.

This same spacing problem affects EVERY PAGE THAT HAS A NAVBOX!

Therefore this problem should not be fixed in the page markup; it should be fixed in the MediaWiki code that assembles pages.

Or maybe it can be fixed in the high-tech "protected" (noneditable, non-linked-to) page "Template:Navbox with collapsible groups". (And other navbox master templates, if needed.)

(A third choice: it could maybe be fixed by editing EVERY navbox template (5,000?), which is silly, but still way better then editing every page that has a navbox (800,000?). - - >

It seems reasonable to fix. I it hard to fix? A876 (talk) 22:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: The comment is wrong. Some extra spacing is indeed supposed to count (specifically, multiple consecutive blank lines). Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I restored my post that you deleted, and I made clear the substantial changes you made after my post. Per WP:TPG, you shouldn't remove others' posts, and you shouldn't make substantial edits to your own posts once someone else replies to them. Jackmcbarn (talk) 02:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

The non-response that you posted only embarrasses you. You disagreed with an incidental point (proving blindness) and denied a request based on a half-reading (proving conceit). Your explanation of denial was supposed to give an actual reason why the change is denied, and only optionally tell me why I am an idiot. First I repudiated your nonsense, but then I thought why even grace that with a reaction it doesn't deserve - I'll do us both a favor and ROLLBACK (yup) the pathetic lazy condescending dismissal as if it had never happened. I removed your glib non-answer and my reaction, I removed the minor point that so derailed you, and I requested a fresh start from a -real- editor (with this text that you elected not to restore: "Your denial here is IRRELEVANT because you DID NOT EVEN READ the request. How does that help anyone?", and "Requesting help from someone, ANYONE who knows what is requested before deciding."). And now you go and undo all my heinous evil vandalism - you put it all back (almost all, as noted) - and as mark-up, no less. You don't know when you've been helped. I don't purr and I don't like "per" or hearing or seeing that fugly preposition. Some of the stupidest things I've ever seen are "per" unimportant guidelines like 8888808-XLnot that do not commission anyone to go around undoing minor gaffes. A876 (talk) 05:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I still think we shouldn't do this. If this template doesn't contain a blank line, you can still get the extra space by adding one yourself. If we add the blank line, you're stuck with the extra space no matter what, even if there's some circumstances you might not want it in. Jackmcbarn (talk) 05:32, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Each ==section== seems to induce a small additional space before itself on the rendered page. Somehow the final collection of navboxes does not get the same spacing-before, though it seems pretty evident that it should. The extra blank line in the mark-up might be putting in too much vertical spacing; slightly less might be ideal; I think the automatic ==section== spacing is closer to ideal. I think this proposal is uncontroversial: Few people notice the problem, but everyone can perceive the difference once it is pointed out to them. Many might say that the change wouldn't matter at all, but people who think it matters would surely agree with the proposed change; anyone opposing this change would be quite rare. It regularizes things (makes things more consistent to fewer rules), a holy grail for many. A876 (talk) 23:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. You have a very long description of what you (and some other editor) think is a problem, but there are no screenshots or links to pages where this is evident, and I can not make out what the exact problem is based on your request. Can you provide some links or a screenshot (with an arrow drawn on it pointing to the problem or the problem being circled) so we can see what you are talking about? I'll be happy to help you figure out exactly where the problem is and how to fix it, and we can work up a sandbox version that fixes the problem. I am closing this request as this discussion isn't ready for any edits just yet. Thanks... — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 23:45, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

@Technical 13: I'll take another stab at it in this thread. In the meanwhile I've made a demo of the differences, using markup, on this page. (Format around the illustrations will be a little weird.) (Appearance might change of a template here or elsewhere ever gets changed.) (View source to see the actual mark-up used.) (If this falls through, I'll try a new shorter request with screenshots to illustrate.)

First, here it is with NO blank lines between (spaced tight, too tight):

External links

• dummy link

Next, here it is with ONE blank line between (exactly the same appearance!):

External links

• dummy link

Finally, here it is with TWO blank lines between (it looks better with more space, though maybe a little more than needed.):

External links

• dummy link

And there it is. A876 (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

(ec)  Not done. Please don't use the protected edit request to start a discussion; it is only meant for adding code that is ready to be inserted. As for your request; the spacing, however tight you may perceive it, is quite normal. Adding an extra linebreak may seem to fix it, but it is not established practice, because it adds too much space. We also cannot add the extra linebreak to the template, because that would cause all navboxes to split from eachother. A CSS solution has been investigated, but proved to be unreliable (depending on the first navbox found on the page). -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:55, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Adding to my comment... There already is some CSS in place (in Common.css) to put some space between a list and a navbox; it is set to 0.5em. This is the default spacing. If you do want to increase it, you may want to raise the issue at MediaWiki talk:Common.css. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 00:02, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Okay, I see no problem there, and I'm guessing most users see what I see. So, I'll need a screenshot for what you see if you want me to understand what is happening (a userAgent string might be useful too). — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 01:52, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

@Technical 13: Thanks for the screenshot. Yes I see what you see, and I see a (minor) problem. (And I'm not the only one. Someone goes around jamming in extra linebreaks page-by-page to tweak it away.) I'll try to make a screenshot with more context to show the problem - that the final micro-spacing clashes with the established macro-spacing. (Yes I know micro-spacing is the sacred hallowed blessed almighty worshipped Status Quo. I might make up a blind-choice pair so that people are forced to pick which layout is more preferable WITHOUT knowing which one is the status quo. Even your own unprejudiced selection might surprise you.) A876 (talk) 05:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

@Edokter: Thanks for good points (and for addressing the issue)! I'm not code-ready, though I could try wading through the snarl in case it turns out to be simple. [However, the one time dared to I edit a Sacred Template (sandboxed, tested, rolled out), someone reverted it saying "BRD" - which is absolutely not a valid explanation - and then did not put anything on the Talk page. The same editor undid someone else's edit saying approximately "I don't trust you". (There's always someone eager to disparage, discourage, destroy good will.) So I see why some master templates are protected, to prevent futility.] Indeed, the tight spacing "is quite normal", but that's what I'm objecting to - it makes the navboxes seem part of the last section (often "External links"). "Adding an extra linebreak ... is not established practice" - but people are resorting to it thinking they are helping, which started me up. Correct, "extra linebreak [in] the template" is far too crude. Yup, it sounds a job for CSS - "space before" and "space after" that can be set various ways like minimum spacings that don't sum (don't ask me the details). But the problem is you'd have to make the chain of navboxes look like its own section, so that only ONE section spacing is added before them. (One might also consider taking the spacing-before each section and splitting it between spacing-before and spacing-after. Thus spacing -between- sections would remain the same, spacing before the first section would shrink (fixable by editing something else), and spacing after the last section would grow (as desired) - an old word processing trick. But something would have to detect the ENDing of the very last section to trigger its spacing-after. (Or maybe MediWiki's page model keeps things simple by not allowing spacing-after in any form.) Finally, your postscript was pure advocacy - "There already is some CSS in place ... to put ... space between a list and a navbox; it is set to 0.5em". Is that the ticket? I'll have to find a way to sandbox a change that template, and/or take apart a page's HTML and CSS to see if increasing the number has the desired effect (and no undesirable effects). Maybe I can locally patch the CSS. Recent browsers have tools for playing with those things... :) I'll be back when my irk wears off some (and after a sleep). A876 (talk) 05:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

The fun thing about Wikipedia is that practically everything is customizable. You don't have to install CSS locally; every user can use his/her own CSS right here, that will only affect what you see. Your personal CSS page is at Special:MyPage/common.css. If you put the following code in, it will add more space above the navbox (but only you will see the difference):

ol + table.navbox,
ul + table.navbox {
    margin-top: 1em;        /* Prevent lists from clinging to navboxes */
}

-- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I cannot find when, how, where, and why the change from VDE to VTE was made. Help me out with a link?

Hi, Minor issue. I recall seeing the useful View-Discuss-Edit links always being V•D•E in the corner, but now they are V•T•E, while the tooltips still say view-discuss-edit. Discuss doesn't begin with T. (Or does it? Tiscuss... Hm, no it doesn't.)

I do like the change as T signifies this is a Template — at least for me — but by whom, why, when, and where was this change discussed / approved? Is there consensus? I cannot find a link to the discussion anywhere... Or anything in the edit history. Thanks in advance, •ː• 3ICE •ː• 23:09, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

@3ICE: T stands for Talk. The change was in a subtemplate, specifically {{navbar}}, and it was this edit. The edit summary points to WP:VPT#Changing the "d" to "t" in templates, which I can't find in the archives of that page. Perhaps Edokter can help with that? --Redrose64 (talk) 23:27, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Right, that will require some diggin in the archives. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:30, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Found it, at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 85#Changing the "d" to "t" in templates - VPR, not VPT. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:36, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Beat me to it. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:42, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

(ec) The "T" is for "Talk". The change was made long ago in Template:Navbar (you can find the discussion there), and subsequently migrated to Module:Navbar. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:28, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you everyone, this (Discuss → Talk) is a great change. Redrose64, Edokter, your detective skills are impeccable :) •ː• 3ICE •ː• 04:17, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Request for an Extention

The collapsible navbox is very helpful for different purposes. One of them is its use for large TOCs, especially in Wikibooks. For a comprehensive Wikibook its TOC grows according to the content and people may have the wish to fold und unfold parts of the TOC so that they can navigate more easily. So far, so good.

What I'm missing with the template is the ability to 'remember' the state of 'folding' when navigating over pages where this template is included. When I fold some subtrees on the first page and follow a link to a page where the template is used again, the TOC is visualised in its original folding-state - not in the folding-state of the last page. Or to say it the other way round, the folding actions of the first page goes lost when starting any new page with the same template.

When using Javascript and its object 'localStorage' it is possible to store and restore the state of the tree. My questions are:

• Does anyone has the same requirement to 'remember' the state of the tree when people follow links to different pages?
• Is it a good idea to use Javascript for a solution? Is it possible to do the trick with server-side PHP so that it is not necessary to activate JS in the browser?

--Kelti (talk) 19:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)