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Talk:Yellow vests movement


Yellow Jackets movementEdit

I see this has been renamed while the press is alternating between "yellow jacket" and "yellow vest". I wonder why there is such a rush to rename rather than to add to the content, when both so are widely attested? — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 16:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm just plain confused. I made a few edits trying to make the content more cohesive, but it's kind of a mess and I don't even know what name to stick by.--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 17:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
Have added a few more references that try to understand the movement rather than just listing how many people were injured. Both references I added used the term "yellow jackets" which is a catchier, zippier name. If those who have not edited the entry could respect the BRD process by discussing here before moving it anywhere new that would be great! — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 19:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC):
Curses! Renamed again, ignoring the talk page entirely. Again, @Mélencron: hisself. Mr. Mélencron, I would respectfully submit that there are rulez on en.wp that are supposed to be respected. Running reg-ex replacements through citation templates is definitely a no-no. I would argue, too, that forcing contributors to use your preferred, ennobling term for a popular movement is probably not warranted. Within the text people should be free to follow the press (like The Mercury News which went from calling them yellow vests earlier to calling them yellow jackets now (see references in the article). The MSM will succeed in taming the natural "populist" translation, so I will not revert you again. In re: the MOS question, please see the Black Panther Party. I would request that you become more communicative and less aloof in your approach to editing in concert with others. If you wish to rename all the occurrences of "yellow jackets" in the text to "yellow vests", that I guess is your stylistic choice. I do know that most French teachers I know would not approve of such a redundant writing style. — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 21:01, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
@SashiRolls: I concur with what SashiRolls says, I believe "Yellow jackets movement" is the suitable general name to be used in the article based on the sources we have. Overall though, the writing of the article should be tidied up, and Sashi has done quite well with that so far. Also more info about the spillover into Italy, and if there has been any connected in parallels in even more countries, would be very good-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 21:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

RfC for name and suchEdit

@SashiRolls:, @Mélencron:: I have no experience with this, but perhaps one of you could open an RfC to settle the name dispute here and to help address the Multiple Issues I tagged on top? If not, that's fine, it is just an idea to help initiate this article getting tidy and updated.--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 21:40, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Nah, let's clean up the content rather than fighting about the name. I'm going to bale for a while, will come back later. Others should feel free to add their 2 cents. That's how this place is supposed to work. I've given it a pretty lazy once-over. Mélencron is a good writer/editor, I've seen them work, they should feel welcome here too. First we can work this out on the talk page, I think, and see how it develops. WP:NODEADLINE, WP:NOTNEWS, etc.— 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 21:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
I did what I could for cleanup. On a lighter (jazz) note: as a non-native English speaker, I discover only now that PETA sees the yellowjacket as a social wasp species that should be treated humanely, whereas others describe them as predators... Wakari07 (talk) 22:29, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Yellow jackets in Holland?Edit

I found two articles apparently talking about yellow jacket protests that sprung up in the Netherlands, for example in the city of Maastricht. Should this be added to the article The two links, @SashiRolls:

--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 00:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, Sigehelmus, I don't read Dutch. I'm sure someone does though. — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 00:43, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

There are also sources in English language, for instance: [3]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Road safety Removed sectionEdit

One section related to road safety has been removed. Here it is:

According to SANEF motorway operator, drivers should caution should be taken when approaching pedestrians and sudden stops in traffic on motorways.[1]]]

The reason for the removal was: "Removed section that only stated an opinion as if it was fact." — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
It might be an opinion, but this generated one fatality. [4]. The fatality occurred on the Contournement d'Arles or Arles bypass (motorway). And one fatality is one fact, not an opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Working at it. Thanks. — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 01:41, 4 December 2018 (UTC)


To redden the soon sanguinary dispute about whether to add globulism on the page somewhere... here's the link that got eaten in my ES. Perhaps there are others in English? [5] — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 02:28, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

There are no global factors involved. France is way over there. Wait are you talking about the good globalism that gets cheese from Switzerland, or the bad globalism that gets taxes from England? -Inowen (nlfte) 03:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Reputed academic attached to respectable institute writing on undisputed news website says otherwise. What is our source? Wakari07 (talk) 17:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
@SashiRolls: A lot of users may not like the term being used, but if this source claims it well, WP:BOLD! Also someone removed a cause of Euroscepticism as quoted in the lower part of the article (in Italy at least) -Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 04:02, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
I think this naming "battle" probably isn't that crucial to the entry. Will the compromise link to Globalization make everyone happy? The link I found to try to calm the debate only talks about mondialisation not néolibéralisme / néolibérale / néolib*, so should not be used as a source for "neoliberalism". — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 11:48, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Does the sequence of events: Khashoggi murdered → US pressure on Saudi Arabia → US fuel prices drop below $2 gallon → France fuel prices jump, match up time-wise with a theory that Saudi Arabia is currently gouging France in the wake of the US price discount? Globalism is theorized. The fuel cost graph doesn't show any spiking. Is there a general policy of charging France more for fuel? Is there a preference toward gouging less powerful states? Gouging democracies? -Inowen (nlfte) 01:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@SashiRolls: If we only have one source talking about this - are we sure that this is something we want to include in the causes? It seems to be far more strongly about taxation than 'globalism'. I'm not sure it's WP:DUE - we don't really have any content talking about globalism in the article either. PeterTheFourth (talk) 13:13, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
The article is an interview with an economist developing an analysis that "mondialisation" (better translated by "globalization") is a key process that leads to productivity imbalance and income inequality. People are feeling left behind and want to be heard. French sociologist Christophe Guilluy is also mentioned in this source: he describes the people on the "other side" of this fracture as "la France périphérique" (sub-class, peripheral France). And the Macron government is seen by them, a majority, as "overwhelmingly favoring a minority of wealthy people", as convincingly sourced in the "Background" section below. High taxes and low purchasing power are both issues to the protest: but to put food on the family table, lower taxes are a less immediate issue than higher purchasing power. Wakari07 (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Also I removed "neo-liberalism" as a cause since the source didn't mention it directly. But it's closely related to globalization. Wakari07 (talk) 15:58, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Wakari07: @SashiRolls: This Turkish article also cites globalism as a cause of the protests.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 16:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Note that both additional sources are (The American Conservative moderately, Yeni Şafak more pronouncedly) conservative, rightist publications. The French Wikipedia describes our current source, w:fr:Atlantico, as "« grand public », généralement classé à droite" (attending a general public, generally classified to the right). But, somewhat paradoxically, the criticism of "disconnected elites" ends up similar. Wakari07 (talk) 17:50, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sigehelmus: The article also says imperialism and capitalism are causes, but for some reason we're not using those and are using an anti-semitic dogwhistle. PeterTheFourth (talk) 20:29, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@PeterTheFourth: There are lots of articles talking about globalization & neoliberalism. Apparently, "globalism" is a new way of spinning globalization (mondialisation). There are plenty of op-eds and interviews talking about how neoliberalism caused the yellow vests movement in Left-leaning papers: e.g. [6] & [7] My impression is that deciding which -ism to blame for the loss of purchasing power since the Lehmann Brothers crash is mostly a matter of personal preference. Mine would probably be economism / neoliberalism. The fact that the symbol of the movement is a uniform all European drivers are required to buy, and that most of them are made in China suggests that globalization might be involved too. What's your favorite -ism, Peter? Maybe we could find a place to fit it in too (as long as it has something to do with workers making ends meet). One thing that's sure is that Macron does not want to go back on the suppression on the special tax bracket for the upper class (the so called impôt de solidarité sur la fortune: cf. [8]... — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 18:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure we should be citing either 'neoliberalism' or 'globalism' as causes. If we are going to cite 'globalism', we should instead write 'globalization' - globalism is a term [...] used by detractors of globalization such as right-wing populist movements. PeterTheFourth (talk) 20:11, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Well, I suppose it will depend whether RS use those terms beyond interviews and op-eds or not. It is clear, however, that the suppression of the ISF is one of the rallying causes: [9] "Depuis le début du mouvement, sa réintroduction immédiate fait partie des revendications des manifestants. « Paie ton ISF ! », clamaient plusieurs d’entre eux en descendant les Champs-Elysées, lors de la manifestation du 17 novembre.". — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 20:37, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@SashiRolls: I just did a swift search of @PeterTheFourth: out of odd curiosity, and it appears he has a charged and controversial reputation. Going back a few years even he has been accused of being a Single-Purpose Account, inter alia, and his edits seem to be consistently aligned towards contemporary Western social-political movements, particularly against those that may be associated with conservative/populist sentiment. I would interpret his grievances with a grain of salt, personally. I intend no ill will whatsoever, just offering a clarification of context of said grievances. There seems to be a lot of discussion on his behavior on this Wiki and other sites, for quite a long time. Again, no offense or conflict wanted, but I deemed it necessary here. WP:AGF balanced just with a touch of WP:SPADE....Edit: I'm sure he is a lovely person and he has a voice,but there is a reasonable chance he is consciously expressing personal bias in accordance to his behavior. This is my first time ever mentioning such a thing, forgive me.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 21:52, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Yikes. Remind me to never make change suggestions on talk pages again. Fucks sake. PeterTheFourth (talk) 22:08, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@PeterTheFourth: Ah, this was was a response I feared. Firstly please control your tone and language. Peter, you have no reason to be hesitant, but I would not have felt comfortable mentioning the context I felt necessary. Furthermore, your interests are your interests, but in light of your past at least try to diversify your activity beyond what can lead to more threads about your perceived bias/SPA. I am not confirming nor denying anything, and I lend you an olive branch of goodwill. Just to mention something lastly back to topic, I am searching for more sources myself.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sigehelmus: Control your tone and language: What are you, a kindergarten teacher? Control how creepy and weird you act, dude. PeterTheFourth (talk) 22:23, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@PeterTheFourth: Needless vulgarity and emotional reaction≈s are generally frowned upon here; you ought to know that by now. I am being civil and just raised a reasonable concern, while you have reacted twice emotionally and uncivil. I would not like to do it, but if you do not adopt a more proper, team-player attitude I'm going to have to report you, further corroborating your reputation.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:28, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Get a load of this fucking guy. PeterTheFourth (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
I am normally quite patient, but I can not withstand this kind of behavior. I have been civil and you've been rude and ridiculous and against the spirit of this site. You're lucky I don't know how to report you actually......but someone else will! Maybe!--Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:39, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Could one of you hat this little explosion of wiki-love, please? This is supposed to be a no bullying zone, Sigehelmus. — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 22:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
I'm sorry. I'm done with this article now, by the way. Thanks for your contributions. I've said everything I needed to anyway.-Sıgehelmus (Tålk) 22:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi SashiRolls, you added this back as a cause with this article as a source. Could you explain how this article leads you to think that globalism is a cause, how it's a reliable source for the causes of the protest, and why this particular opinion piece deserves that much weight? PeterTheFourth (talk) 07:03, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

That sounds like homework, Peter. ^^ Compare your quote in turquoise above to the quote listed in the reference template: [T]he rhetoric of the movement, with its insistence that there is a globalized élite that, by manipulating finance and capital, are undoing French civilization, rhymes ominously with the classic forms of French right-wing nationalism, including indigenous French anti-Semitism. One of the concerns of the gilets jaunes is that it is becoming increasingly expensive to live "off the grid" (i.e. heating one's home with "fioul", living far from transportation networks, having to buy a standard issue "gilet jaune", etc.) Other concerns include the way in which laws are applied differently to different people (Cf. the highly mediatized cases of Liliane Bettencourt & Jérôme Cahuzac, mentioned in the article "Aux sources de la colère contre l'impôt" cited in the entry), the suppression of the solidarity tax on wealth in order to encourage the wealthy to stay in France rather than moving to other countries which do not have such a tax. Just a word, PtF: it is not easy for me to write about these things as I've had very little direct contact with the Gilets Jaunes, as I sold my last vehicle over a dozen years ago and am not involved with the movement. I have, however, had the chance to speak with motorists who do talk with them at various "barrages filtrants" they've smiled, talked and waved their way through on the way to work each day for weeks now. I do not believe it is WP:UNDUE to mention this "cause" as one among many. I would also encourage you to read the rather "orienting" NYT article in the entry. Another concern is immigration, as evidenced by the complaint filed by border control against the gilets jaunes [10]. Cf. the Trumpism, Orbanism, Putinism mentioned in the article you asked about... (edit: you may also want to look through the extensive discussion of conspiracy theories and the yellow vests (in French) at Discussion:Mouvement de Gilets Jaunes) — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 11:47, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
@SashiRolls: Well, editing is optional. Please don't feel as though you're required to be here!
I agree that under a certain light, you could view the concerns illuminated in the opinion piece as similar to those put forth by the people who sincerely believe that 'globalism' is a threat. I disagree that the existence of this opinion piece or the content contained within is enough for us to list 'globalism' on this page as a cause of the movement. I'd be much more comfortable if a factual piece by a reliable source definitively labeled 'globalism' or fear thereof a cause. Does that makes sense? PeterTheFourth (talk) 20:25, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
@PeterTheFourth: Yes, optional, indeed, but addictive. :p Rather than sparring over "globalism" in the infobox, perhaps a nuanced paragraph would be better. The advocates for the straightforward label might start link-stacking, and that's just ugly. This op-ed in Courrier International mentions how French automotive hero Carlos Ghosn's arrest the 19 Nov couldn't have been worse news... — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 02:39, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
@SashiRolls: Including this opinion piece in the body of the article sounds like a great idea. It's a perspective that could stand to be expanded on. PeterTheFourth (talk) 06:13, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Source for: Caused by...Edit

Caused by

  • Increasing fuel taxes
  • High fuel and motor taxes
  • Unpopular austerity measures
  • Globalism[6]

The source appear to be atlantico.

Is this a reliable source?

  • The source media is, a normal news website as far as I can see. I see nothing wrong with that source. The issue was not raised yet at WP:RSN so the site does not appear at WP:RSP. The interview is with economist Rémi Bourgeot [11], whose articles are cited by Al Jazeera, Libération, RFI, L'Obs, TV5, La Croix, Le Figaro and others [12] He's an associate scholar at w:fr:Institut de relations internationales et stratégiques, a French think tank and recognized private university. Wakari07 (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Is this the official cause? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:48, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

  • What is official? Wakari07 (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Globalism should replace globalisation. The two are connected yet separate. Globalism is what various sources say as a causation. Irishpolitical (talk) 10:27, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Marseille building collapse / CGTEdit

5 November. 1 482 people had to leave their homes for several weeks. It's still fresh in people's mind there. The article I added on the woman's death in Marseille ends by mentioning that, along with the CGT, a collective associated with the victims of the collapsed building had called to strike that Saturday. [13]

Looks like the movement is over, huh? — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 22:30, 4 December 2018 (UTC)


Economic reforms favoring the wealthyEdit

I suggest to add a paragraph about the primary and main reason for the protest. Which is missing from this article. According to the protesters. Macron's economic reforms are favoring the wealthy, to the expense of the majority middle class. The diesel and fuel prices are an important part of their anger, but they are secondary motivation. Not a primary one.

How about adding this draft for the article "Background" section? With sources.

The protesters claimed that the Macron's administration pro-business economic reforms are overwhelmingly favoring a minority of wealthy people. To the expense of the majority middle class.[1][2][3] Macron claimed that the goal of the pro-business economic reforms is to boost the economy to increase France competitiveness in the global economy.[4] The result of a November 28, 2018 poll focused on those pro-business economic reforms, indicate that roughly 84% of French supported the yellow jacket movement, and 78% found Macron’s appeal unconvincing.[5]

  1. ^ Koleilat Khatib, Dania (2018-12-04). "France's elitist socialism has 'people' decrying 'regime'". UPI. Retrieved 2018-12-04.
  2. ^ Lough, Richard; Carraud, Simon (2018-12-04). "France's Macron hunts for way out of 'yellow vest' crisis". Reuters. Retrieved 2018-12-04.
  3. ^ Viscusi, Gregory (2018-12-03). "Bloomberg - Are you a robot?". Bloomberg News. Retrieved 2018-12-04.
  4. ^ Bhatti, Jabeen; Dyer, John (2018-12-04). "Yellow jackets France protest threatens Macron". The Washington Times. Retrieved 2018-12-05.
  5. ^ Walt, Vivienne (2018-11-30). "'Civil War' in France as Yellow Jackets Drive Fury at Macron". Time Magazine. Retrieved 2018-12-05.

Francewhoa (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Good short analysis I'd say. Wakari07 (talk) 03:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Yes, it's a good start! No mention has been made of Macron's decision to cancel the ISF (impôt sur la fortune) yet, which is one of the major bones of contention, mentioned in the MondeDiplo article in the entry, as well as in the "exclusive" Les Echos article I mentioned above (again...[14]) — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 18:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Remove sentence about "white nationalism"Edit

I've removed a sentence at the end of the "Reactions" section: "The group has been referred to as white supremacists due to their opposition to refugees and the state of Israel."

In the four references provided:

None of them mention white supremacy or opposition to Israel. (I only skimmed the videos). The edit was made by here:

Wqwt (talk) 06:12, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

The IP smearing people as white supremacists was from Sweden, imagine my shock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


how come this means vests and when I translate "jackets" to French using Google Translate it is "vestes"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wishfart (talkcontribs) 16:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

"Gilet" has two main meanings: the first a sleeveless waistcoat, the second a tricot garment with sleeves. (Source: [15]) Vest/veste may also be sleeved or sleeveless in both languages. They're frequent words with many meanings that vary in time, place and "register", so you need context to translate in an unequivocal way. But hey, no original research here, of course ;-) Wakari07 (talk) 17:26, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
In the French law, it is written gilet de haute visibilité, for instance in "Lorsqu'ils circulent la nuit, ou le jour lorsque la visibilité est insuffisante, tout conducteur et passager d'un cycle doivent porter hors agglomération un gilet de haute visibilité conforme à la réglementation et dont les caractéristiques sont prévues par un arrêté du ministre chargé des transports." (Article R431-1-1 En savoir plus sur cet article... Créé par Décret n°2008-754 du 30 juillet 2008 - art. 20) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
In Irish Euro-English, it can be called High-visibility clothing [16]
In Euro-English, it can be called high visibility vests [17]
In Euro-English, it can also be called High visibility clothing [18]
In British English, the BBC can use high-visibility jackets, high-visibility clothing, and high-vis. the ubiquity of high-visibility clothing means that it surely symbolises the Britain of 2010s in the same way that miniskirts summed up the 1960s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Urbanism / amusing snark from the mayor of Saint EtienneEdit

On December 7, 2018, the press reported that the mayor of Saint-Etienne had tweeted that Lyon's festival of lights should be canceled to free up the forces of order. Funny the press echo that's gotten already. [19] Allez les verts. ^^ This is probably related to the student strike in St. Etienne [20] (and in Lyon...) — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 23:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

What is so amusing/Funny in riots? The fact that many cities have to cancel many events dues to security/safety issues? I am quite sure that in many countries citizens would not consider amusing/Funny to have such events at home... — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
There is a huge rivalry between St. Etienne & Lyon (even in folk histories of the regional Dec 8 tradition). If Lyon's event were canceled, perhaps tourists would go to St. Etienne instead. I guess I'll write it in though, since RS seem to find it more important than the rain. — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 22:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
The riots are very serious indeed, but agree with Sashi is is still good to see the funny side. When protestors make good use of humour it often helps them achieve their aims and reduces the risk of provoking a shocking response from authorities like we saw at St. Exupery. This has a long tradtion in France going back to François Rabelais, Charivari and beyond. In the last few days, thousands have marched in support of students under the banner of Armée de Dumbledore , though I've not yet found a good source to include this. There is an excellent source available saying The Donald supported the yellow vests as he thought the movement is an endorsement of himself, but while LOLish thought it best not to include that. FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:46, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
There's history there. Dumbledore's army wasn't born yesterday. ^^— 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 02:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Protests in ItalyEdit

There are currently no gilets jaunes protests I can find that have taken place in Italy. The only citation provided in this article that claims Italy is a part of these protests mentions an online group which is planning one.

I have removed Italy from the infobox because of this. If anyone can find any evidence that there are gilets jaunes protests taking place in Italy, then you're welcome to add it back in.

Grngu (talk) 15:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Twitter botnetsEdit

Reading an article in Courrier International, I see that The Times has written an article about the yellow jackets movement having being stirred up by Russians. Anyone subscribed to The Times out there, so we could add their POV? — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 22:48, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

All the article says (the Courrier one) is that hundreds of accounts "linked to Russia" are trying to exaggerate the movement's significance and sowing ethnic division on social media. While it's not an uncommon accusation in Europe nowadays, I don't mind mentioning this as long as it is properly attributed to The Times and "New Knowledge", the cybersecurity firm it is citing. Access to the Times is not required, since we already have a reliable secondary source covering this.
And, while we're at it, we should probably mention other global government and media reactions, such as the ones summed up by this Figaro article. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 10:26, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

The etymology of les gilets jaunesEdit

The literal translation of les gilets jaunes into English would actually be "the yellow gilets" because the latter is a valid item of clothing in much of the English speaking world. The practical translation should be along the lines of "the yellow jackets" because the items of clothing worn aren't vests at all. Hindianu (talk) 18:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


@SashiRolls: Firstly salut Sashi, I freely admit I'd never heard "allocution" used in English before but have noted it for future reference! I suspect -but may be wrong -that it's a French word with an English equivalent which has largely been superseded. The Google translation is "address" which is absolutely the word I think is required here. Any objections to changing it? Regards JRPG (talk) 22:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Salut back! Yes, that's great, sorry for being stubborn. — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c 22:41, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
@JRPG: I went ahead and did it. So ... you were right straight across the board. ^^ If you see anything else, don't hesitate... — 🍣 SashiRolls t · c
"I suspect -but may be wrong -that it's a French word with an English equivalent". I assume both words (allocution and adresse) have been in the (Middle/Old) French language before being in the English one. Both words (including adrece ) could also come from the latin language (ad + rex / ad + rect) and ad + locutio from alloqui . That's just they are not used in the exact same way in both languages, but may be wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
address (noun): "Meaning "act or manner of speaking to" is from 1670s. Sense of "formal speech to an audience" (Gettysburg Address, etc.) is from 1751. Sense of "superscription of a letter" (guiding it to its destination) is from 1712 and led to the meaning "place of residence" (by 1888)."
to address (verb): early 14c., "to guide, aim, or direct," from Old French adrecier "go straight toward; straighten, set right; point, direct" (13c.), from Vulgar Latin *addirectiare "make straight" — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
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