Talk:Vitaly Gerasimov

Question

Any relation to Valery Gerasimov? Also appears that the 41st Army page neglects to mention him. Qwidjib0 (talk) 23:25, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

No. A lot of people have the surname Gerasimov/ru:Герасимов. Mellk (talk) 23:35, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

This is getting out of hand. Stubs like this wouldn't pass the notability guidelines normally 93.103.223.236 (talk) 23:43, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

There is a mistake about his death. By 8/3/2022, he is not dead

We need to verify our sources to provide accurate information. Please stay out of politics and wait for official news next time. There are a war, and an information war going on. Please make sure you get the official information for Wikipedia. 2402:800:610D:1E9E:3C6D:D382:972:1449 (talk) 00:04, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

What if you are the official? 12.153.8.130 (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

The article says he is PRESUMED dead, not confirmed. There's also a bit of irony in you accusing WP of being political while not providing any source yourself. Firestar464 (talk) 02:59, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

It seems like that the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine mistaked Stanislav Gerasimov with the General. The Ukraine side, and the Russian to some extent, has been providing unreliable information from the start of the war. I understand the emotions are running high now but please let's not make wikipedia a battleground for this info war Trieutrunghai (talk) 00:22, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Trieutrunghai, do you have a source for that? Schazjmd (talk) 00:23, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

The burden of proof is on the one who wants to claim something is true, and not on others to disprove anything someone might make up. And the precedent is that one cannot take anything at face value. The "death" of the Snake Island soldiers were reported as true in most of the media without proof, just one statement from Ukrainian officials was enough. Similarly with the miraculous "ghost" pilot who turned out not to exist. Do you see now why the burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim, not on others? --2A02:2F07:D60A:8D00:89D3:BAFA:6662:4D47 (talk) 07:46, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Agree, some fellow Wikipedians falling into the versions of belligerents in the middle of the fog of war. We should wait for more information, regarding it's fate. We are talking about living persons and that information as now is still a uncorroborated claim.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

It’s been 9 days and no one has proof he’s alive. He’s been called dead by many various news outlets since. Since he hasn’t re-appeared, I believe it’s okay to assume he’s dead now. Miss E Kelly 17:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ELKelly23 (talk • contribs)

Leonid Volkov, the chief of staff of Navalny, said he was buried secretly in Ekaterinburg on Mar 15. Airakale (talk) 03:55, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm certain this section of the article is completely wrongly placed due to media having identity confusion between Vitaly Gerasimov and Valery Gerasimov. In March Vitaly was promoted as the northern commander in Belarus. He has nothing to do with the Kharkiv region. News of Valery being send into the war broke on 28th April, initiating his hunt. Resulting in the attacks in Kharkiv and following attack the night after on the MOD buildings in Belgorod. Hence, this whole incident is without doubt related to Valery Gerasimov not Vitaly Gerasimov. This section should be moved to Valery Gerasimov. Also note Valery Gerasimov didn't show up at the 9th May military parade. See military briefings: [1] and [2]. Mightyname (talk) 19:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Notable?

I'll give it some time to see what coverage results, but I question whether this is a notable person for a Wikipedia article. Schazjmd (talk) 00:41, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Yea, this should not have been created if all we're saying about him is "he was a guy that died". Redirect this to the appropriate war article. Zaathras (talk) 01:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

His Russian page was created on 11-Oct-21:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87 ,

and he appears to have been a major general killed in conflict, which would make him notable. Ml66uk2 (talk) 02:42, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

What passes for notability on a state-controlled wiki has no relevance to the EN-Wikipedia, there is no presumed notability for a military officer here. WP:BIO is the governing guideline. Zaathras (talk) 03:04, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

He was a high-ranking Russian general. He was notable, and one will find a significant amount of information about him in Russian sources. It was the same with Andrei Sukhovetsky. Applodion (talk) 10:38, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

It should be noted that in the Russian system major-general is a one-star rank equivalent to brigadier in Western militaries. Solipsism 101 (talk) 15:33, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Is https://ru.wikipedia.org "state-controlled"? I assumed it was liable to a certain amount of bias, but essentially controlled by WikiMedia. PJTraill (talk) 16:27, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

It's certainly interesting to document these generals, but we're opening ourselves up to some leg work. As the 5th or 6th major general is killed and sources begin to barely cover them, we are duty bound to create an article about them based on this and Andrei Sukhovetsky. If they both are notable, please provide sources (even Russian-language sources) with non-trivial coverage of them prior to death. Such sources may exist, but I doubt it. I think we're dealing with WP:BLP1E; they died and that's it. Solipsism 101 (talk) 13:22, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree that this is not notable person. A Google search for his name shortly after his death was announced did not turn up any relevant results at the time. Xxavyer (talk) 13:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I do not find this as a notable article. His only notability is being potentially killed in a war. This alone does not meet the guidelines. KD0710 (talk) 15:00, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

He is mentioned at Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Notable_deaths, which is perhaps enough, making this article unnecessary if there is nothing more notable to be said of him. But this discussion should be continued at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vitaly Gerasimov, I feel. PJTraill (talk) 16:38, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I note he has previously appeared in news reports, this one being of particular interest from the recent past: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-general-writes-about-cyber-warfare-in-military-journal/ . In this very recent article, he is described as having attained "mythic status", and references to past articles are given: https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220304-shoigu-and-gerasimov-masters-of-putin-s-wars Topically (talk) 08:02, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Not weighing in on the veracity of whether Vitaly Gerasimov should be considered notable; however, as a point of reference, the CBS and France24 articles cited here are about a different Russian military leader with a similar name, Valery Gerasimov, and are thus not about the individual in question. LainEverliving LainEverloving (talk) 09:49, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

This is an extremely important page for the common user, which I would like to remind fellow editors is the purpose of this website: to provide valuable information to common users -- and not to debate the subtleties of rules the point of which are to provide clarity, and not to use as a cudgel or to prevent the free flow of information. Here is a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_duty_United_States_Army_major_generals A list of US major generals, most of whom have their own page, which pages have but a sentence or two of (yes, valuable) information. Shall we delete all of those pages as well? The page on Vitaly Gerasimov includes information on his involvement in the annexation of Crimea, information which I would not have known had it not been gathered here. Also, let us not succumb to the contrivances of state-sponsored propagandists. 73.127.52.235 (talk) 17:24, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I know Wikipedia is not a democracy, but I can say that I, an ordinary user, appreciate this page's existence. Fusion7 (talk) 21:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Regarding US major generals which are two-star, in Russia major generals are 1-star ranks equivalent to a brigadier in the US army. I do not think there is a list of brigadiers in the US army, though I am happy to be corrected. Solipsism 101 (talk) 16:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

alleged war criminal

I have nothing against Ukraina or for Putin or something similar, but I'm wondered, when we are putting such allegations to someone page and when not? I have nothing against putting this to every Official and Politician who commanded a military operation in which civil casualties are included, but then please do that to the Turkish military with their very racist military and politicians, too! Do that with Saudis, too. Do that even with Bush, do that with Putin and everyone who was involved in Tshetchenya and so on on. To do this selectively sounds not right for me and is just pushing a western world-view of black and white! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:173:9C20:3829:684C:B5FB:7D86 (talk) 14:33, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

False information

There is no confirmation of his death, no evidence, and no trusted sources yet available. Therefore, the article can only be interpreted as false and/or take.

In addition,it say alleged war criminal in the first sentence or two, but mentions nothing on the entire page as to who falsely placed this title on him, who is investigating him, and why?

Very unreliable, false and untrustworthy information. 85.255.236.238 (talk) 14:48, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

The war criminal epithet has been removed. The claim he has been killed has been attributed. Solipsism 101 (talk) 15:46, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

"take": Did you mean "fake"? Anyway, as Solipsism says, the article has been cleaned up significantly. PJTraill (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Read CNN has not been able to independently verify Ukraine's claim, and Russia's defense ministry did not immediately respond to CNN's questions about Gerasimov on Tuesday, which is a national holiday in Russia. The United States also cannot confirm the Ukrainian claims, a senior US defense official said Tuesday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.93.67.114 (talk) 17:09, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I have added this. Solipsism 101 (talk) 17:31, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

The investigative journalism agency Bellingcat said it had confirmed Gerasimov’s death with a Russian source. Zaathras (talk) 21:50, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Rare for a general to be killed

The deletion discussion has closed, but is likely to be re-opened at a later point. A fourth major general has been killed now, out of 20 deployed to Ukraine.[3] Solipsism 101 (talk) 12:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

It's unlikely the deletion discussion will be reopened. The result was a "strong keep". It's unlikely that new elements, if they arise, will reduce his notability. Bommbass (talk) 21:19, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Major general Vitalii Gerasimov photo.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:53, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Apparently not dead

As for 25.03.2022 he appears to be alive and being rewarded by Central Military Okrug commander - https://t.me/RVvoenkor/13292 — Preceding unsigned comment added by DeiDrah23 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, this is another of the Ukrainian declared dead by then spotted alive cases. Baxbox (talk) 09:18, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

This is a setled matter, and it is time to stop giving weight to redlink-named Russian propagandists. Gerasimov's body was retrieved nearly a month ago, The bodies of 6 Russian servicemen, including Gerasimov, were exhumed in the Kharkiv Oblast. Zaathras (talk) 04:24, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

This link does not even confirm his death, it the mentions the Ukrainian government claim. So no, this is not settled as you think. Mellk (talk) 04:38, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

That link also brings up an inconsistency in the name: "On 7 March the Defence Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence declared that the Ukrainian defenders eliminated the Russian Major General Vitaly Gerasimov near Kharkiv. However, his patronymic middle name is Petrovych [thus doesn’t match the name V.S. from the deceased soldier’s uniform]." Baxbox (talk) 09:13, 26 June 2022 (UTC)