Talk:Travancore

History of Travancore

Will someone care to write an article on History of Travancore using the pictures at Commons:Travancore? I can help copyediting it. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 07:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

edit

edited the subsection 19th century . from "as per reports of higher castes" to "reports of Christian Missionaries" . I have added the reference to it. BharatveerBharatVeer-Bharatveer (talk) 12:29, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

--- edited the last sentence of 19th century subsection Bharatveer 06:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Added citation needed tag to the sentence regarding travancore being the "vassals of Nayaks of Madurai,Nayak dynasty" Bharatveer 14:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Modified the first para to remove the tag. I have also made some changes to remove POV termsBharatveer 04:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

add a map

add a map

Maravan Pada.

Can someone explain why the information about the 'maravan pada' was removed/ Thanks. jeyarajan_r@hotmail.com

I removed 'maravan pada' as i felt it was incorrect. If you have sources for that; you can re-insert those sentences.Bharatveer 03:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I have changed "maharajah's soldiers" to "british soldiers" as the final fight was between Velu thambi and the british forces.Bharatveer 03:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Bharatveer, if, I may be so bold so as to correct you, Velu Thampi was surrounded in Mannadi by the Rajah's soldiers . Source: "page 335, A survey of Kerala history" by Prof. A Sreedhara Menon, S.Viswanathan publishers. Talking about Thampi, i find it very interesting that he disbanded most of the Nair army, faced a mutiny by them, took refuge in the resident's house in 1805 and then in 1809 moved against the resident. If he himself had not disbanded the army, he would have been in a better position. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.79.249 (talk) 07:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Maravan Padai

The distance between Padhmanaba Puram and Marukal kurichi is 100 Km. A 4-5 hours of horse ride. Well, I got the information about Marakal kurichi from the book ‘A History of Tinnevelly’ wriiten by CALDWELL,BISHOP R, a missionary. 500 horse men from Marukal kurichi won the military of ‘ettu veetil pillaimar’ and brought back Marthanda varma into power. Marukal kurichi is still a village near Nanguneri . The villagers today don’t know the fact that their ancestors led the first Asian military that won the European forces, not Tojo of Japan at Yellow sea. I add this reference again. Can you please tell me, where did you get the information about ‘Maravan pada’?

Maravan Pada

Hi, Why the maravan pada info is not there. Can you please explain. Can you please add a better description when you add or remove some info. Thanks. jeyarajan_r@hotmail.com

Pls refer Travancore State Manual-Velu Pillai.

Written in 1940, it clearly debunks many of the claims of Travancore being weak in its early history.I think maravan pada is also mentioned in this one. I felt that most of the earlier sentences were just meant to glorify panyaanadu, nayaks , etc etc and historically inaccurate.Bharatveer 10:09, 24 May 2006 (UTC)Bharatveer 10:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)Bharatveer 10:13, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Rama Varma

The name Rama varma is a very common name among royalty of kerala. The Dharma raja or Kathika Thirunal Rama varma is more apt name also recognised in the history among the people of kerala. The link was shifted to dharma raja.activevoid 06:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Dutch empire overseas?

How come the above mentioned template is added to the article, when the article itself says that Travancorean king Marthanda Varma defeated the Dutch general, De Lennoy?? rohith 20:49, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

where lies the northern end of Travancore?is it Muvattupuzha?

Upto which part of modern Kerala does the old travancore exists?the northern part especially.does travencore reached beyond Muvattupuzha,Angamali etc.also it seems the article does not define the division btw tranvancore and Cochin properly-almong with a MAP which shows Tiru-Kochi;not alone travancore.

It lies further north from muvattupuzha..the second map shows the boundary. Travancore boundaries almost touched cochin Manu —Preceding comment was added at 12:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Ayyavazhi issue

Bharatveer, The impact of Ayavazhi over the history of Travancore is perhaps not understood by you. If so, pls see the Historian views, LMS Reports, University Books, Statistical publications etc cited (citations:1-6) there in the article. I've added onemore citation; that is from one of the school syllabus of the Kerala government. Paul Raj 12:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

So Friend, are you telling that the Kerala govt and the Madras University moving in Ayyavazhi POV? - Paul Raj 13:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Paul Raj, With all respect, Ayyavazhi was mostly restricted to Tamil speaking areas (present day Nagerkoil district) of the Travancore state and had little impact on the Travancore state as a whole. Even today, Ayyavazhi group is restricted to South Tamil Nadu only and not in Kerala. It is unfair to highlight the teachings of Ayyavazhi as a major social reform over Ayyankali, Narayana Guru and Chattambi Swamigal. As social reformers in the Travancore/Kochi states, the trio had a much bigger impact and would be more significant in the history of Travancore. It would be unfair to highlight Ayya Vaigundar's role alone and ignore other reformers. So, I have removed the paragraph on Ayyavazhi from the history of Travancore. If you like to revert to the old form, you must include one or two paragraphs about those reformers also. otherwise, the article appears biased to Ayyavazhi sect.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Geejap (talk • contribs) 04:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Geejap, for all the comments you made above, the citations provided will a answer. It includes university papers, historian writtings and also the Syllabus of Kerala Government(which states Vaikundar as the first reformer). So it's respectfully unfair to remove those contents from over there.

And regarding Narayana Guru and Chattampi Swamikal, I completely agree that the article will remain biased with mentioning Ayyavazhi and without the others. But I don't know much about them and there are no citations for me to provide. So let some others add those things, Thanks. - PAUL RAJ 20:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Bharatveer, it's quiet unfair to remove Ayyavazhi related edits when, what and where ever on Wikipedia; don't you see the multiple references (even from govt and universities)? For you, any thing related to Ayyavazhi = Undue ?!!! Once again I am telling you - Will you please see into the multiple citations and the sources. Also note the impact of Vaikundar as noted ( at bottom of the section 'Teachings and Impact')here; Additionally take a look into the cited sources too. - PAUL RAJ 09:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

User:Paulraj, Please see Wikipedia:Don't be a fanatic. Please don't try to push your Povs -Bharatveer (talk) 12:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

No place here for anything else than valid and credible citations; everything is authenic and appropriate(as per wiki policy). And additionally, I don't understand why you suggested this (Wikipedia:Don't be a fanatic) page for me. Are you meaning that, The then Travancore State, University of Madras, The Kerala State Government, London Missionary Society ect - all people related to the above institutions and their publications are fanatic and are publishing every thing with my signature?

Above all, pointing a 'manual' link (such as 'Please see Wikipedia:Don't be a fanatic' and all) to an user doesn't gives the right to revert his edits based on valid and credible citations. I think you may agree with this point, Thanks. - PAUL RAJ 15:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Kodungalloor Why is Kodungalloor mentioned as a part of Travancore. It was part of Cochin State —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 16:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

edited the subsection 19th century . from "as per reports of higher castes" to "reports of Christian Missionaries" . I have added the reference to it. BharatveerBharatVeer-Bharatveer (talk) 12:29, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The leaders of the Thol chelai kalakam (upper cloth struggle) were Rev. Cox, Rev. Bayllis and Rev. Mead. I will find the references and then include them.

Added citation needed tag to the sentence regarding travancore being the "vassals of Nayaks of Madurai,Nayak dynasty" Bharatveer 14:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

will add the section from Prof. Menon's book. Rani Mangammal used to send expeditions to Venad to exact the tribute. Venuad fought a few battles that she lost and after that seems not to have fought against the nayaks (dscretion is the better part of valour?).

Venad-Travancore

According to Prof. Sreedhara Menon's book, HRH Marthanda Varma established the state of Travancore after he became the Raja of Venad. Therefore, it may not be correct to classify the earlier rulers (like Ummayamma Rani) as rulers of Travancore. I think that this should be corrected. I had complied a list of the venad rulers too, but that correction now has disappeared. There is a gap of about 50 years when we do not have any records, possibly due to the Pandyan invasion of Venad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.28.102 (talk) 12:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Religious Tolerance

Travancore was characterised by the fairplay of the rulers, who were, in comparison to rulers elsewhere, quite enlightened. While I agree with Paul Raj that tensions had existed, they were quite mild, and would like to remind him that the rulers had given tax free lands for temples, mosques and churches, even to those used by the depressed communities. I have photos of the Arrapalli (half church) of Thiruvithancode, one of the oldest continiously used churches in the world. Does anyone have a photo of the Sri Padmanabha Swamy temple/ Suchindram temple and the Chullimanoor mosque (as far as I know, the oldest inside Travancore: Kodungallor was outside Travancore), and if so, could they upload them, please? That way, we can have a fair representation of all.

A.D.

There seems to an overuse of "A.D." on this page. 66.31.76.221 (talk) 18:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I used the terms as I found in Prof. Sreedhara Menon's and Prof. Joseph's books. I found their books to be the most balanced ones that I had read on the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.79.249 (talk) 07:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Travancore empire

Even though Travancore was the largest kingdom in the present Kerala area at that point of time, it cannot be classified as an empire in the likes of the Mughal, Maharatta, or Chola empires. So I have corrected that. There was also a few words about Velu Thampi in the section where the early beginnings of Travancore was being discussed. Since he came to the scene much later, i have removed that section. There was also a comment about the mode of the defeat of Tipu. Even though this is what I had heard from my childhood days, this event has not been cited by real historians.... Malayalees, Indians and Europeans. So I took the liberty of modifying it too. If you do have a citation or reference for that, please do include it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.79.212 (talk) 23:44, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

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Social reformers

I am now compiling a few words on the non-royal reformers of Travancore. Chattampi Swamigal, Sree Narayana Guru, Vaikunda Swamigal, Aiyyankali, Vaikom Maulawi, Rev. Mead, Swadeshabhimani Ramakrishna Pillai etc. I would also like to add a few more words on the contributions of famous Dalawas: Ramayyan Dalawa, Raja Kesavadhas, Velu Thampi Dalawa, Col Munro, Rao Dalawa, etc. If you have any suggestions, please contribute/add the name here and I will be very glad to write about them. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.226.35 (talk) 08:35, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

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Spelling and grammar

i have just corrected a few errors in the section about the mysorean invasion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.224.35 (talk) 06:10, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Several names used in this article are anglicisations of local names(Travancore, Trivandrum etc.). I have replaced many such names with better translations(Thiruvithamkoor) or officially accepted names(Thiruvananthapuram). Some errors still remain, especially in links to other pages. Could someone please make the necessary changes? Thank You. Jose Mathew C (talk) 18:33, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

The word Thiruvithamkoor has been replaced with Travancore. Please note that while both are correct, the first is closer to the actual pronounciation. Thank You. Jose Mathew C (talk) 18:05, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for leaving a note about this on my talk page. The subject of the article is referred to as Travancore overwhelmingly more than as Thiruvithamkoor. A Google Scholar search, for example, returns 18,200 results for "Travancore" and just 59 for "Thiruvithamkoor" and 11 for "Thiruvithamkur". The policy relevant here is Wikipedia:Article titles#Foreign names and anglicization, which says:

The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage, e.g., the non-anglicized titles Besançon, Søren Kierkegaard, and Göttingen are used since they predominate in English language reliable sources, while for the same reason the anglicized title forms Nuremberg, delicatessen, and Florence are used.

As the sources indicate, the subject of this article falls into the latter category, so the article should be titled Travancore. --Joshua Issac (talk) 08:48, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

In that case, what about explaining all possible names and variants (Travancore, Thiruvithamkoor, Thrippappur, Aayi desam, Nanjinad, Venad) in a separate section and using Travancore in the rest of the article? Jose Mathew C (talk) 01:50, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I've added a Name section for this. I took some of the content from ml:തിരുവിതാംകൂർ on the Malayalam Wikipedia, and there may be more information at ml:തൃപ്പാപ്പൂർ സ്വരൂപം. I haven't added anything related to names derived from Nanjanad or the Ay kingdom. --Joshua Issac (talk) 13:53, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Added those and expanded the Name section. The section "Early history" describes events which are again described in "History", at "Formation of Travancore" and "The Mysore invasion". Shall I merge them? Jose Mathew C (talk) 06:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Good job. The Early history section can be removed or merged if its content is already in the History section. On the name "Ay Desam", how is this related to the pre-Chera Ay kingdom? Was the name used because the territory was part of the former Ay kingdom? Or was it because a branch of the Ay royal house merged into the House of Kizhperur that ruled Venad? --Joshua Issac (talk) 20:44, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Not sure. Both are possible. But please note that it is the geographical area of (south) Travancore, not the Kingdom of Travancore, that is called Ay rajyam (Ay kingdom). Jose Mathew C (talk) 09:29, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Mysorean invasion

Please provide academic sources for the destruction of the dam. i agree that this is the version that I had heard in Kerala, but none of the historians report this sequence of events. Also please provide academic sources about the death of Tipu's cousin. The official version is that he fell into a ditch and became lame, though the Kerala version is that the travancorean soldiers hacked his knee cap off.

Yes, it lacks reliable sources. If someone could provide, please help. AshLey ^Msg 09:43, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Since no one has provided any academic sources supporting the fight at the northern lines, I have edited the section and also made it more neutral. Please feel free to correct me if you have academic sources to support the views. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.77.198 (talk) 16:58, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Travancore and Venad

Rulers like Ummayamma maharani were rulers of Venad, not of Travancore. It was HRH Marthanda Varma who had founded Travancore. So I have corrected the list of rulers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.227.133 (talk) 09:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Corrections

I have corrected the grammar and construction of the introduction. There was an unverified statement about Kannikar being the backbone of the military, so I have edited it. From what I have read, the Nairs formed the backbone of the Army, though other communites including (and not limited to) Maravas, Ezhavas, Nadars, Muslims, Arayans and Syrian Christians had joined the military too. Please feel free to correct me with references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.11.76.229 (talk) 16:22, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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Foundation of Travancore

Marthanda Varma took charge of the kingdom of Venad and expanded it (unified/conquered other kingdoms, depending on the point of view) into Travancore. So Travancore, per se, did not exist in 1500s and started only from his reign, before that, Padmanabhapuram was the capital of the kingdom of Venad. So I have modified 1500 to 1729 when Varma was crowned king.

timeline

There was no Travancore in 870, and before that the area was ruled Ay or Kulashekara or Venad rulers. Therefore I would like to change that sentence, please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:46B9:6300:BDE4:11F7:8C0C:A3E6 (talk) 08:49, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

References in 19th and early 20th centuries

I my recent edit is removed the following references: .

kindly replace with better reference.

References

--User:श्रीमान २००२ (User talk:श्रीमान २००२) 09:01, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

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Orphaned references in Travancore

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Travancore's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Supreme Court":

• From Chithira Thirunal Balarama Varma: Supreme Court, Of India. "GOOD GOVERNANCE: JUDICIARY AND THE RULE OF LAW" (PDF). Sree Chitira Thirunal Memorial Lecture, 29 December 2007. Archived from the original (PDF) on 17 October 2012. Retrieved 1 February 2014.
• From Travancore royal family: N Ojha (28 November 1991). "Revathinnal Balagopala Varma vs His Highness Shri Padmanabhadasa ... on 28 November, 1991". Supreme Court of India.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Long copy-pastes & non-NPOV

This article seems to contain long passages that were copied-and-pasted from other articles, where they belong — if they belong anywhere.

I'd recommend:

• seriously shortening the hagiography of the last king. It's iffy all the way through, and by its last paragraph about his death, it has abandoned all pretense of NPOV (how exactly did he continue to "rule" Travancore for half a century after it ceased to exist?) and relevance (what does it matter to the history of Travancore how many other members there were of two British knighthoods half a century after it ceased to exist?)
• seriously shortening the section "Merger of Kanyakumari with Madras State", to the same length as the section "Formation of Kerala". The political play-by-play is already covered in the linked main article.

Patriarchy?

It says Travancore is a "proper Patriarchy" where women have "less rights". It looks like the mistake was unintentional and it was supposed to say the opposite. Error27 (talk) 23:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Name of the Kingdom (Thiruvithamkoor)

I have named the page Thiruvithamkoor Maharajyam because that was the official name of the kingdom in Malayalam.

Adding Travancore national anthem audio

Can anyone please add the official national anthem (Vachi Bhoomi) of Travancore to this article 2402:3A80:192B:6270:0:0:0:2 (talk) 01:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 March 2022

The Indian Map you have uploaded here is wrong. Upload a correct map covering POK, Gilgit & Baltistan and Aksai Chin in India. They are part of India. Pacficocean2019 (talk) 13:14, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

No change Pacficocean2019 (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:49, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

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