Talk:Taking the knee

History

Should this article be framed around the 2016 gesture in sports, with the history being similar gestures that Kaepernick and Reid may have been aware of (but didn't mention?), or should it be written as how "taking the knee" began in prayer, was part of the 18th century abolitionist movement in Britain, led to Martin Luther King Jr knelt on a march, etc, and more recently saw Kaepernick popularising the gesture again in 2016? The latter implies that if you'd asked someone in 2015 what it meant to kneel in protest, they'd have told you it was an anti-racism gesture, and I'm not sure how much that's the case. --Lord Belbury (talk) 07:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

I think it's fine to have a section about usage pre-2016, and historical context is needed to explain why this gesture specifically garnered traction as an anti-racist symbol, but we don't want to duplicate genuflection so it shouldn't be the focal point. — Bilorv (talk) 09:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Context is definitely worth including. Should the article be framed as taking the knee being something that started in 2016 and had a background, though, or something that's been around since 328 BCE and (as the current article text has it) "resurfaced" in 2016 when a football player performed it? --Lord Belbury (talk) 10:17, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh I didn't see the recent additions. No, this is textbook WP:SYNTH. Removed. — Bilorv (talk) 15:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Recent additions aside, it's been suggested before. Seemed worth finding a consensus on how best to frame the article. --Lord Belbury (talk) 15:33, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah I think we should be talking about this as something that started in 2016—anything pre-that is genuflection—but when the relevant precedents to this practice started depends on what sources say (would need to read more deeply). That is, unless pre-2016 people were using the term "taking the knee", or it was a common form of protest in a very similar way to how it's being used now. — Bilorv (talk) 16:13, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

This article is wrong.

Taking the Knee has been around in sports since long before Colin Kaepernick. It also isn't specifically related to protest. Has anyone here actually ever played a sport?

Back when I played youth soccer, the 2000s. We were taught to "Take a Knee" whenever someone hurt. It was a sign of respect and solidarity, not just genuflection. You can see it on any field soccer or football field where a player is hurt.

https://www.bakersfield.com/archives/taking-a-knee-is-it-required-etiquette-on-the-field/article_ca906840-2165-5059-88f3-3ba18d5539f6.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2014/10/14/should-players-be-required-to-take-a-knee-when-a-fellow-competitor-gets-injured/?sh=5e6b5ab53001 MikeShogunLee (talk) 03:29, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@MikeShogunLee: you are encouraged to improve this article if you think it is wrong. The Forbes contributor source is not reliable, and it'd be good if you could find additional sources that trace back the origin of this custom. Is it an American custom? Limited to particular sports?

Perhaps if your new additions became developed enough we'd decide on one article on the broader custom and one article about the post-2016 racism-related phenomenon. — Bilorv (talk) 19:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Football countries

Belgium, Wales, England, Ireland, USA (WNT mostly).41.58.232.189 (talk) 23:27, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Do you know of any references we can use to expand coverage of taking the knee in these countries? — Bilorv (talk) 23:39, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016%E2%80%93present)#Association_Football. Bokoharamwatch (talk) 00:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Belgium, Wales, England all did at all their Euro matches (as did most of their opponents); in fact starting in/ca. Oct 2020 even b4. ROI did so too in friendlies as didn't appear in the finals. GB women also did @ SO-Tokyo'20, I think. A simple www search would show these sources. Someone would eventually see fit to add them. 41.58.49.224 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC) Ps see here)

You are very welcome to add this information yourself, reliably sourced. — Bilorv (talk) 18:48, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Use in other sports

Cricket? Motoring? 41.58.232.189 (talk) 23:28, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Do you know of any references we can use to expand coverage of taking the knee in these sports? — Bilorv (talk) 23:39, 27 December 2021 (UTC)