Talk:T&T Supermarket

employment

please am from kenya and I would like to know the employment opportunities therte are in T&T SUPERMARKET. YOURS CAJETANO BOSIRE—80.240.198.238 10:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)CAJETANO BOSIRE

Here you go. Enjoy, but there's no locations in Kenya. [1] p 00:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Lawsuit of Exploitation

This deleted material seems properly referenced and has been deleted three times now. In deference to WP:3RR, I am leaving it out for now but...I think it probably belongs in the article. The refs could be cleaned up, and the article could stand improvement, but...at its core, the info seems verifiable. Any comments? Isaacsf (talk) 00:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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Trademark logo in first sentence

There is a content dispute about whether the company trademark, "大統華", and an English translation of the trademark, "big united China", should be in the first sentence of the article.

This source identifies it as a company trademark.

A consensus of editors have agreed at MOS:FIRST not to clutter the first sentence with trivial text.

This trademark also defies MOS:LEADLANG.

The disputed text was moved to the bottom of the lead section:

The Chinese writing on its trademark translates to "Big United China".

However, User:Yeeno restored--to the first sentence--both the trademark and a translation.

The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 10:04, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: As demonstrated by the company's official Chinese language website and references to the company in Chinese-language sources, it is not simply a trademark, but also the company's name in Chinese. The trademark was arguably made to protect the company's name, similar to how "McDonald's" is both a company name and trademark.

I would also dispute that its inclusion in the opening violates MOS:LEADLANG, as the MOS states: If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single foreign language equivalent name can be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses. The supermarket using Chinese in its website and stores, along with serving predominantly Chinese-speaking customers, would satisfy this criterion, in my opinion. Yeeno (talk) 20:12, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Several Canadian companies have websites in different languages. Your second source is a Chinese blog. Also, this is a Canadian company; if some of their customers are Chinese speaking, this does not make it "closely associated with a non-English language". Finally, "Big United China" is not the company's name. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:28, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

And why would a "Chinese" company be included in a Canadian trade delegation? Magnolia677 (talk) 20:42, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I never asserted that the company was not Canadian (it's owned by Loblaw), just that the company has a close association to the Chinese language due to (1) their main target demographic (unlike TD Bank, which doesn't mainly target Chinese-speaking customers) and (2) the thing we've been talking about this whole time, the heavy use of their Chinese name in their store logos and other branding. Even their official YouTube channel features their Chinese name along videos that are all bilingually English and Chinese, which further illustrates their association with the Chinese-language and the prominence of their Chinese name.

The second source is the Sing Tao Daily (Canada), which is a Chinese-language newspaper based in Canada jointly owned by Sing Tao News Corporation in Hong Kong and by Torstar. Not many Canadian Chinese publications are online, so this was the first one I found.

The English "Big United China" was never implied to be an official name. It is included in {{lang-zh}}'s literal meaning param (as in Chinese: 中国; lit. 'Middle Kingdom') for informational purposes. If you only object to the inclusion of that literal translation, I have no objections to it being removed or described somewhere else (perhaps in an {{Infobox Chinese}}). Thanks. Yeeno (talk) 22:30, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Yeeno: I objected to the inclusion of the trademark and its translation in the first sentence, so I moved part of it elsewhere. You reverted it. I just don't want it in the first sentence. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

The name 大統華 comes from T&T originating as a joint venture between 大華 (Tawa or 99_Ranch_Market) and 統一 [[2]]. This theory about "Big United China" is obviously false and trolling, and is the most ridiculous thing I've seen on Wikipedia in many years. Gsblo (talk) 15:51, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, 3O here. I'm not sure why this was posted, since this does not appear to be an active dispute, but I'll give my opinion anyway: the Chinese writing on its trademark and its translation is not first-sentence material and should not be restored. MOS:FIRST explains what belongs in a first sentence. In particular, it states If its subject is definable, then the first sentence should give a concise definition. The subject of this article is the supermarket chain, not its logo/trademark. The current first sentence, T&T Supermarket is a Canadian supermarket chain that sells primarily Asian foods, including fresh produce, meat, seafood, and Asian packaged goods. defines the subject. -- asilvering (talk) 03:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Asilvering: Thank you for the 3O; this discussion wasn't really resolved in the first place and the Chinese name was left on the lead for a while, before being removed again some time ago. I recently restored it, but it was removed again by Magnolia677, so I decided to request a 3O.

I get your argument that a logo/trademark is non-defining and thus shouldn't be in the lead per MOS:FIRST, it does not address the case where the characters in its logo are also used as the company's primary name in Chinese? I see this Chinese name being used as an alternative language name in the same vain as the French name for the National Hockey League, which is in the lead sentence. I have listed the arguments for this above, noting that the subject is "closely associated with a non-English language", which is stated by MOS:LEADLANG as a reason to include it in the lead sentence. Yeeno (talk) 03:34, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean. I may have misinterpreted the question, my apologies. (I suppose I don't really consider the parentheticals we have after the names of some articles to be "part of the first sentence".) If what you are suggesting is that the beginning of the article is this:

T&T Supermarket (Chinese: 大統華; pinyin: da tung hua; lit. 'Big United China') is a Canadian supermarket chain that sells primarily Asian foods, including fresh produce, meat, seafood, and Asian packaged goods. (Except with the actually correct transliteration, obviously - I don't know what it would be.)

Yes, that is perfectly fine. These characters occur together with "T&T" in much of their online branding, and I don't find the idea that it is not "closely associated with a non-English language" to be persuasive in the slightest. Their branding clearly uses both languages: see, for example, every single image on this page of the website. This theory about "Big United China" is obviously false and trolling is a bizarre thing to say about this official website of the government of Canada. -- asilvering (talk) 04:13, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

References