Talk:Sovetsky Soyuz-class battleship

Cancelled because of aircraft carriers?

From what I know about Stalin's preferances in naval warfare, which were always crtical, he never considered carriers as a threat to a well-built monster-sized battleship. Soviet ships had to be designed to outgun other ships of the class in every point - meaning uncontrolled growth of tonnage. And if you didn't design a wonder ship, you were to be considered a traitor. The hatred toward aircraft carriers continued throughout the Cold War and the "missle craze".

"The weakest, least developed country tends to try to build the biggest battleship." Cited in a two-year old Popular Mechanics issue. Compare "Soyuz" or Yamato to the reasonable Iowas and King George-Vs. The latter were less ambitious, but more realistic, and were actually deployed in large numbers (4 Iowas and 6 ships of similar level, compared to 2.5 Yamatos (one finished as a support carrier/floating maintenance airfield)or 4 uncomplete "Soyuz")). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.139.166.181 (talk) 17:08, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sovetsky Soyuz class battleship/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Parsecboy (talk) 02:47, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Everything here appears to be in order. I added the sp=us parameter to several convert templates for tons (tonnes is BE, metric tons is AE) since the article appears to be using AE. Excellent work, Sturmvogel! Parsecboy (talk) 02:55, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

"Voice"

Only four hulls had been laid down, of the sixteen originally planned, by July 1940, when the decision was made to cease construction of more ships of the class, as the Soviet Union shifted its resources to building its land forces in preparation for the imminent war with Germany.

For example:

Of the proposed 16 ships, only four hulls had been laid down by July 1940, when the Soviet Union shifted its resources to strengthening its land forces, in preparation for the imminent war with Germany.

Look for sentences with lots of commas, with that appear in the place of objects, with more than one "that", and with passive or "ing" verbs. Auntieruth55 (talk) 16:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Partially in service

In late 1940 to Sevastopol towed the specially build at Nikolayev shipyard central section (50 х 38) of the battleship - to test it against modern torpedo warheads. However testing was postponed and the section remain at Sevastopol until the beginning of the Nazi invasion. It was decided to use it as a floating AA- battery. 3 August 1941 it was joined the list of Black sea fleet under name floating AA- battery(Плавучая зенитная батарея ) - acronym PZB #3. It was equipped with: 2 B-4 130 mm , 3(4) - 76 mm AA. , 4 - 37 мм -AA, 3- 12,7 mm DSHKa and 1 7.62 quadruple A-4. Crew - 130. Soon it was gained the unofficial name Ne Tron Menja (Noli me tangere) - while shot down dozens of Luftwaffe planes. By the end Sevastopol siege in 1942 it scored 22 planes shot dozen damaged . First (and last) heat by bomb was achieved 25 June 1941 - when it was out of ammo for AA-guns -

To the Luftwaffe's considerable relief the large antiaircraft raft PZB-3 ( Floating Antiaircraft Battery No. 3 ) - known to the soviets as Ne tron' menya ( Don't touch me ) - in Severnaya Bay was destroyed by 2./KG 51's Oberleutnant Ernst Hinrich that evening. Generaloberst von Richthofen, who personally witnessed the conspicous explosion of the antiarcraft raft from the cockpit of his Fieseler Storch, was so enthusiastic that he immediately called Hinrich's commander and told him that the succesful pilot would be awarded the Knight's Cross."

Commander Lt. Captain (lieutenant commander) S. Ya. Moshenskiy was killed together with 24 crew - up to 50 was injured. Sources http://flot.com/publications/books/shelf/heroicships/142.htm?print=Y

• Warship International The problems with Ne Tron Menja. Rene Greger. N2/86:155. §N4/86:332; §N4/89:329.
• Корабли и суда ВМФ СССР 1928-1945 (М. Воениздат.1988 г.) на стр. 293 плавбатарея "ПЗБ № 3
• http://flot.sevastopol.info/history/ww2/ww2basesevastopol.htm
• http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/krylov1/18.html
• http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/dubrovsky_vg2/25.html
• http://forum.sudden-strike.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=8719&d=1112078712 - image as of end of June 1942

I think this information should mentioned here or at separate article as floated device of the Black Sea fleet which scored highest number of AA-wins over. I hope someone would be grateful to prepare a plain English text for this info. Again it would by good for DYK Jo0doe (talk) 17:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I've got the Warship International article, but I think the Ne Tron Menja was not a part of any ship, but rather the pontoon used to test the ship's protection scheme. I'd need more German sources before I'd write it up to ensure NPOV.

Soviet/Russian sources said - it was central section of the battleship project 23 - of cause it does not belonged to any actual ship - but intend to test schema similar to be produced.Jo0doe (talk) 18:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Exactly.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

• German source with sunk story - Dierich, Wolfgang Kampfgeschwader 51 "Edelweiss": Eine Chronik aus Dokumeten und Berichten, 1937-1945

(ISBN: 3879432724 also another RU source - Морозов М. Воздушная битва за Севастополь 1941-1942 ISBN 978-5-699-20863-0Jo0doe (talk) 19:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

• • OK, I'll take a look, but I'm not sure when I'll get to them.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:21, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

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